What happens when your alternator dies.

MillionMileSprinter

Millionmilesprinter.com
My brother in law had his alternator die yesterday while he was on the road. He didn't know it, but the red battery light came on. Here's what happened up to the point where the van shut itself down. I'm writing this for general knowledge and so you can read the warning signs and have an idea of how long you have before you are dead in the water.
He has an '02 with daytime running lights.
1. He was at a funeral when the light came on.
2. He stopped and started the van 3 times and drove about an hour total.
3. He went to an auto parts store and picked up a new battery. Stopped and started the van.
4. Got on the highway and drove for about half an hour.
5. The SRS light, airbag light and Traction control light came one (the batter light had been on this entire time).
6. He called me and told me what was going on.
7. 10 minutes after step 5, the radio turned off.
8. A minute later the dash went dark and everything on the dash turned off.
9. 5 minutes later the van shut down.
10. He put the new battery in on the side of the road.
11. Van started right up. Everything back to normal except battery might was still on.
12. He continued driving about an hour and a half home with no issues, other than the dead alternator and battery light.
 

seans

Member
My brother in law had his alternator die yesterday while he was on the road. He didn't know it, but the red battery light came on. Here's what happened up to the point where the van shut itself down. I'm writing this for general knowledge and so you can read the warning signs and have an idea of how long you have before you are dead in the water.
He has an '02 with daytime running lights.
1. He was at a funeral when the light came on.
2. He stopped and started the van 3 times and drove about an hour total.
3. He went to an auto parts store and picked up a new battery. Stopped and started the van.
4. Got on the highway and drove for about half an hour.
5. The SRS light, airbag light and Traction control light came one (the batter light had been on this entire time).
6. He called me and told me what was going on.
7. 10 minutes after step 5, the radio turned off.
8. A minute later the dash went dark and everything on the dash turned off.
9. 5 minutes later the van shut down.
10. He put the new battery in on the side of the road.
11. Van started right up. Everything back to normal except battery might was still on.
12. He continued driving about an hour and a half home with no issues, other than the dead alternator and battery light.
Sounds like what happened to me in the Sierra Nevada in 2009 when my alternator died, except I noticed the light right away and avoided steps 5 thorugh 11. I was at 10,000 feet so I turned off everything and drove down the closest town with supplies at about 4500 feet, about 45 minutes away. I ordered an alternator but it would not arrive for three days. So I bought a trailer hitch luggage tray, a Honda generator, a cable lock, and a couple of battery chargers. I had installed a trailer hitch on the van just before leaving for California "just in case". The generator had a 12V output but it supplies a pitiful amount of current, necessitating the battery chargers. The chargers could not quite keep up with the van while driving - and AC and headlight use was out of the question - but they topped off the battery during stops, and I had no need to drive at night. Continued the vacation. Later that week I drove across the Sierra with the generator running on the "back deck" to a relative's house where I replaced the alternator.
 

NelsonSprinter

Former Nelson BC Sprinter
It is amazing how little power the Sprinter uses when Spark plugs are not needed.
If the alternator isn't spinning from a broken serpentine belt, you have similar symptoms , but then you have major overheating to avoid
 

flman

Well-known member
When we had alternator failure on our 2005 T1N we were getting all kinds of weird lights and issues, just I was not the driver at the time of that failure, but it sounds like T2T described.
 

220629

Well-known member
Good information.

One caution. When the battery light comes on it is best to not just assume that it is the alternator or battery. It could be that the serpentine belt has problems.

A serpentine belt slipping can stop the water pump which can quickly lead to overheating the engine and serious damage.

If the battery warning light comes on you should first stop to check that the serpentine belt system is ok. Most likely you will get a warning by the power steering no longer working properly, but something like a fuel leak on the belt could cause slippage without that symptom.

:2cents: vic
 

ECU

2006 T1n 118 Sprinter
A dead alternator draws power when it is malfunctioning. Driving makes your battery go down.
 

220629

Well-known member
Why? Could you explain?
I'm not ECU.

It completely depends upon the failure mode. Your alternator is a 3 phase AC generator with diodes to convert to DC. It also includes a module to regulate the voltage/output.

If the main power diodes in failure mode short out or otherwise conduct when not intended to, then the alternator can become a load on the system. If the main power diodes fail open or don't fail at all then there should be no load on the system.

A failure of the regulation circuit or excitation brush assembly can cause loss of alternator output. Failure of those components generally won't add load to the system.

Not all failures of the alternator to provide output will result in an extra drain on the operating electrical system. It depends upon failure mode.

:2cents: vic

Added:
When a power diode shorts out the load on the system is related to the DC resistance of the AC windings.
 
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Umnak

Member
Our alternator went out a couple of months ago. Battery light sprang up on a Saturday morning. We drove 25 miles and went for a long hike, then back to the van, which started up just fine. Stopped for fuel and the van started again with no problems. Parked that evening and woke the next morning thinking we would drive about 40 miles to Charlotte, NC. Made it about 3 miles when a slew of other lights dotted the instrument panel and the van went into Limp Home Mode. We made it back and canceled any idea of a trip to Charlotte. The next day I got a jump start and drove it to a garage that knew trucks and diesels. A new battery and alternator were installed and we were back on track. It has been suggested that the battery shorted the alternator, though I don't have the knowledge base to accept this as fact or fantasy.

[/url]Right Now. New generator and battery by Joseph, on Flickr[/IMG]
 

Rock Doc

Active member
I had an alternator go out on a 1994 Newmar Mountain Air 38 foot Diesel Pusher while I was on a trip. The one saving grace was that it had a mechanical Cummins C8.3 engine, so I just left it running--no electricity needed--until I got to a heavy truck shop that was able to replace the alternator the next morning.

I was never so thankful to have a mechanical Diesel engine as that day! (And, needless to say, this couldn't happen with my 2013 Sprinter!!)

Rock Doc
 

220629

Well-known member
...

I was never so thankful to have a mechanical Diesel engine as that day! (And, needless to say, this couldn't happen with my 2013 Sprinter!!)

Rock Doc
While looking at a friend's newer Harley back in the day I commented, "No kick start anymore I guess." His simple reply was, "Fuel injection". :bash: I didn't know it was fuel injected. :rolleyes:



Simple has it's advantages. My Norton Matchless didn't need no stinkin' battery for the magneto ignition.

Doktor A has always cautioned against jump starts and not replacing batteries on a proper schedule. His observation is that low voltages (and maybe associated spikes?) are not conducive to long term operation of the modules, especially the SKREEM key recognition unit.

My opinion. Any time that a Sprinter with a battery indicator lit is run until the dash lights up like a Christmas tree, you are engaging in a game of Russian Roulette. It is rarely a good idea to press on when these diesel powered computers are telling you that they are unhappy.

:2cents: vic
 

seans

Member
Doktor A has always cautioned against jump starts...
I needed a jump start at the airport long term parking a few years back. The airport provides assistance for things like this. Someone showed up in a pickup with a portable jump start kit. I was examining the jump start device and stopped the guy just before he applied 24 volts to my battery! :wtf:
 

AdrianD

Member
I've been in a similar situation with my OM612 Jeep. 400 miles away from home I noticed the battery voltage was low. Popped the hood, alternator was still spinning, so something failed in the alternator. It was all high-way and the law says low-beams have to be on, so I unplugged the right side headlamp bulb, all front parking lights and then I had doubled up rear lights parking lights, I unplugged all the extra lights, heater off, radio off and kept an eye on the battery voltage with Torque. When the voltage got under 11v, I would stop at a gas station and beg to use a power outlet because I had a battery charger with me. And we got home in one piece, no warning lights.
In the event the police stopping us, the law says that you are allowed to fix your lights.
 

MillionMileSprinter

Millionmilesprinter.com
Doktor A has always cautioned against jump starts and not replacing batteries on a proper schedule. His observation is that low voltages (and maybe associated spikes?) are not conducive to long term operation of the modules, especially the SKREEM key recognition unit.

My opinion. Any time that a Sprinter with a battery indicator lit is run until the dash lights up like a Christmas tree, you are engaging in a game of Russian Roulette. It is rarely a good idea to press on when these diesel powered computers are telling you that they are unhappy.

:2cents: vic
YES. Got a phonecall from a friend whose '06 Sprinter got low on power, dash lit up like a Christmas tree and then a "Start Error" on the dash. So I figure 'time for SOS Diagnostics' and I pull the Skreem and ECU. But something is nagging me so I plug the modules back in and put a new battery in. Starts right up. Check the voltage ant it's 12v with the engine running... bad alternator, dead battery were the culprits.
 

michaelyares

2005 2500 158" WB
My 2005 had only slow wipers as an obvious symptom and maybe a little sluggish start. No idiot lights other than the brake lining warning a week prior (and the ubiquitous engine light for the perennial glow plug issue) . I went to run an errand and first try was an uh oh moment second try was forget about it. I suspected my 3 year old NAPA Legend battery and booster jumped it to see 10 volts being made. I did the cracker test of pulling the positive lead off the battery and the van died. I later read that was a bad idea but it seems no damage. Is the consensus that the Bosch newly manufactured alternator is the most reliable choice? SD Europarts has them at $300... I have not scoured Amazon and Advanced has one for $470 + tax.
 

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
When I've been driving 100 miles distances on battery power alone, beware that digital modules don't like low voltage.
On last repair at dealer, the mechanic tried to start the engine on parking lot, than they push the van inside. leaving ignition on (with DTRL) for long time and the procedure fried ignition module. Pretty expensive fix, especially that it did not show direct code and took mechanic 3 days to figure it out.
Big draw , easy to overlook is blower. When you drive on battery power - make sure you turn off everything. Who knows where is DTRL fuse?
 

99sport

Well-known member
My 2005 had only slow wipers as an obvious symptom and maybe a little sluggish start. No idiot lights other than the brake lining warning a week prior (and the ubiquitous engine light for the perennial glow plug issue) . I went to run an errand and first try was an uh oh moment second try was forget about it. I suspected my 3 year old NAPA Legend battery and booster jumped it to see 10 volts being made. I did the cracker test of pulling the positive lead off the battery and the van died. I later read that was a bad idea but it seems no damage. Is the consensus that the Bosch newly manufactured alternator is the most reliable choice? SD Europarts has them at $300... I have not scoured Amazon and Advanced has one for $470 + tax.

 

220629

Well-known member
I'll add this information from another thread. Watch that your charging voltage sometimes exceeds 14.0 volts. If it doesn't then it may have a partial failure as described by Dennis/Mein Sprinter.

This is the text from post #51. Click on the redirect arrow far below to be taken to the other thread.

**********
I replaced the alternator on the 2006 today.

I've been noticing that after starting the engine the voltage would often remain low for a time before the excitation would kick in. My first clues were that the cabin blower speed and wiper speed would often be reduced. Dimmed headlights for a time at night was a more obvious clue. My voltmeter is included with the added USB charge unit so it is switched to avoid the USB unit drain. I started switching the VM on which verified the longer than normal and intermittent timing on the charging kicking in. Revving the engine a bit had no effect on the lag time.

The 2006 VM also showed that the charge voltage was only hitting 13.9 - 14.0 volts. The 2004 always jumps to 14.1 - 14.2 initially [after the normal approx. 5 second delay for excitation]. That seemed a hair low to me. I just needed to replace a 4 year old battery. (Only 12.1 volts after sitting overnight.) It could be related to the lower charge voltage not topping off the battery.

*****
Added:
...
While having the 10 yr old weak alternator replaced at Dennis during a drive thru health check before a long trip we had him change the VARTA to a Super Start (49PRMJ):; 825 CCA; 1000 CA; 12 Volt;.
...
Cheers...
Alternator failure according to Dennis techs was stated as;

" Alternator has massive amounts of diode ripple causing it to no longer properly charge like it should. With no load the Van charges at 14v but cannot maintain 14v once loads are introduced into the equation"

Cheers...
DIY troubleshooting tip.
Because DIY types likely lack the more sophisticated equipment Dennis uses, if you notice that your charge voltage never exceeds 14.0 volts it is probably time to investigate your charging system. I'm not suggesting that the alternator is bad. I'm suggesting that never charging above 14.0 volts suggests a system problem.

The 2004 now older Bosch150 amp alternator of jumps the voltage up to 14.2 - 14.3 volts before tapering down. The 2006 with new Bosch 150 amp alternator now jumps to 14.2 - 14.3 volts before tapering down. That isn't every time, but predictably with the first start of the day.
*****

The choices that I saw were to take the time to try to troubleshoot the excitation circuit, just replace the excitation/brush assembly, or replace the alternator. At 14 years old/184,000+ miles on the alternator wear parts I felt replacement was the best course. I watched for 150 amp Bosch alternators [an upgrade over the 90 amp] and found one for good price.

By using this Write-up (that one of the wonderful members here on Sprinter-source provided) replacement went pretty well.

Some additional comments.

My admiration goes out to anyone who does R&R the alternator without removing the TR. The clearances with the TR out are bad enough. It is worse, if not impossible, with the TR and bracket in the way. Maybe leaving the TR alone with a like for like 90 amp swap would work????

The 90 amp Bosch unit falls out with little problem. The 150 amp replacement went in with some fiddling. (The TR bracket was loose and had been moved over out of the way. No additional parts or brackets were removed. It did take getting the 150 amp unit into a specific position to move it up into place.)

I don't recall this on the 2004. The 2006 upper *non-bracket* bolt wouldn't pull out far enough for removing. It bumped into a bracket which stopped the travel. I left the loose bolt in the hole. After the old alternator was out I set the alternators next to each other and transferred the bolt over to the new unit. The method has the additional advantage that it keeps the "Vee" notch of the mount casting in proper orientation.

Other than that I followed the basic procedure in Post #1.

After replacing the alternator the charging voltage now jumps right up to 14.1 - 14.2 volts after the normal excitation delay built in to the control circuit design.

I probably won't bother with replacing the excitation/brush unit on the removed 90 amp alternator. As an aside, the removed 90 amp unit free running clutch is still working fine. No bearing noises. If anyone wants it for free, local pickup only. Nope. I donated it to a local automobile electric rebuild shop.

Unrelated. While the TR was out I cleaned up around the seam, sanded a bit, and applied a 2 part epoxy putty worm around the entire seam. I don't expect that the 2 part putty will adhere well to the thermoplastic. I pressed the putty on and overlapped the ridged edges with the idea that it would act as a clamp of sorts to help to minimize deformation of the plastic. I believe that the 2006 TR is OEM FWIW.

vic

**********


I replaced the alternator on the 2006 today.

I've been noticing that after starting the engine the voltage would often remain low for a time before the excitation would kick in. My first clues were that the cabin blower speed and wiper speed would often be reduced. Dimmed headlights for a time at night was a more obvious clue. My voltmeter is included with the added USB charge unit so it is switched to avoid the USB unit drain. I started switching the VM on which verified the longer than normal and intermittent timing on the charging kicking in. Revving the engine a bit had no effect on the lag time.

...
 
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jmwgoff

New member
Appreciate this write-up! So, I took my 06 T1N in for an oil change today (yea, I'm lazy), and when I was dropping it off I mentioned that I'd recently been having trouble getting it to start in the morning lately (winter in Colorado) and had a feeling the glow plugs were wearing out. I've had glow plug codes for a while with no trouble starting it so I figured it was just an issue with the module that I could look into later. But since it was there I figured I'd ask them to test the battery to help narrow things down.

Anyway, I come back and they tell me that the alternator is "intermittently not functioning". They said they hooked it up for a while and half the time they checked it they weren't getting any output. These guys are pretty honest and have never tried to upsell me, but I don't know if I buy this diagnosis, so thought I'd check here with the geniuses.

First of all, in the past 3 months I've done round trips from Denver to Vegas twice (including once as recently as last week) and once to Houston and back. On those trips I ONLY have had trouble starting it when nighttime temps were sub freezing, so my first thought was aging glow plugs (or just general winter diesel issues).

Second, none of the above symptoms came up at any point on those 4000ish miles of driving. I was running the radio and charging my phone from the 12V outlet the whole time and never had the battery light come on while driving or the whole "all lights flicking on like a christmas tree" thing.

Any thoughts? The mechanic floated the idea of taking it to a sprinter specialist before replacing the alternator, so I got the vibe he maybe wasn't confident what was going on either... think I'll monitor it for a few weeks but thought I'd get y'alls opinions too.

Thanks, as always!
 

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