New Michelin LTX tires drifting,swaying steering control

rjbub

Member
I have a 2007 2500 Sprinter Sportsmobile with 27k miles on it and recently switched from the standard Continental stock tires to Michelin LTX m/s LT 245/75 16 on my standard aluminum stock 16 inch wheels. The load range is "E". At that time I had the front end aligned too. I currently have about 500 miles on the new tires.

Since then at highway speeds of 50 to 70 mph, the Sprinter seems to drift about the lane and it takes much more attention than before to keep in properly centered. Frequent micro adjustments to the wheel are necessary while driving to keep it straight. My wife has also notice the change in steering consistency too.

It is particularly scary when being passed from behind by other pickups or larger vehicles since the van seems to want to veer more then. The sprinter does not 'pull' like a misaligned suspension but seems to be ' squirmy' and not have the easy driving tracking it once had on its original Continentals. All of the tires are filled to the recommended pressure.

Would much appreciate any advice since we dont feel as comfortable driving our beloved Sportsmobile Sprinter at highway speeds.
 

Barrelsaver

New member
My new Michelin LTX tires like yours seem to like more air pressure that my old Conti's.
I had some instability issue at first, but fixed it with more air pressure. For my 144" Cargo lightly loaded I now run 65 psi front and 55 in the rear (was 55/45 with Conti's)
The highway ride is noticeably softer than with Conti's. i could go even higher but, its not needed at the lighter loads I run.
 

220629

Well-known member
...
At that time I had the front end aligned too.
...
The unfortunate truth is that you have introduced two variables when you had the alignment done and the tires replaced, but normally that shouldn't matter.

I agree with rjbub that most likely more pressure will cure your problems.

That said, although the alignment job shouldn't give you symptoms as you describe, I wouldn't discount it as a possible issue if adjusting the tire pressures doesn't improve your handling.

Most people are very happy with Michelins on their Sprinters. A search from the blue bar above should get you information about the tire pressures others are using. Good luck. vic
 
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sailquik

Well-known member
rjbub,
What wheelbase is your 2007 NCV3 Sportsmobile conversion?
Is yours a high top or low top.
Are you using the tire pressures that MB/Freightliner/Dodge has on the
decal on the "B" pillar and again down on the decal on the side of the
metal box the drivers seat is mounted on.... or something Sportsmobile
added?
What pressure are you putting in your 245/75 R 16 LRE tires?
My 2010 144" wb MB 3500 (DRW 5 Tonner) suggests 55 PSI for
215/85R 16 tires. This is slighty too much for the rear dual wheels
I've been running 50 PSI in the back.
Try a few PSI more and less and I think you will find a pressure
that settles your Sprinter down.
Mine goes more than 30 seconds with no corrections, unless there are
cross winds.
Roger
 

Chandlerazman

Active member
I've got the Michelins on my van. Rides very nice and steady. Most of the day the van is running at 70-73. I keep the pressure at 60 all around.
 

Eric Experience

Well-known member
Rjbub.
There is a lot of misinformation about sprinters in trade books like the ones wheel aligners use, the industry tries to make things simple for the the mechanic doing the alignment by saying a`sprinter has "x" amount of toe in. this is wrong and dangerous the correct toe in is determined by several factors`and the factory details are in the form of a graph. sorry for the long answer but you must get your alignment returned to the settings they were on before the tyre dealer messed with it. Eric.
 

rlent

New member
New tires will frequently be "squirrelly" ...... until the tire mold release compound wears off ....

This has been covered here before ..... you can find info on this phenomena on The Tire Rack's website.

With 500 miles on them, you should be getting close to having it worn off.
 

sailquik

Well-known member
rjbub,
I'll ask again.
What pressure are you running in the new Michelin LTX m/s LT 245/75 16
tires?
Is the pressure you are running (front/rear may be different) the same as
specified on the MB decal on the "B" pillar behind your left front door?
The same pressure is most likely on the LH side of the drivers seat box.
What does your operators manual recommend for your size van?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
Roger
 

rjbub

Member
Thanks to all for your useful information regarding the ' drifting, uncertain and imprecise' steering characteristics of my 2007 144 wb 2500 Sprinter Sportsmobile since installing Michelin LTX ms 16 radials.

My previous tires were stock Continentals MS that faded after about 28k but were as solid feeling as a race car.

In addition to the new tires I had a recommended 4 wheel alignment.. The tire dealer said they used the specs in their book.

Since reading all of your valuable advice, I did increase the tire pressure to around 60psi per tire. There has been no noticeable improvement. The Dodge (Mercedes) handbook states a range of pressure for the front at 57 to 63 and the back for 55 to 61 psi. The 'B' pillar near the driver states 47F 55B ( the original pressure I had when I first got the new tires)

So I may go back and ask them about the tires and or the alignment, specifically the 'caster' which according the one website below , states that if the caster changes from positive to negative with alignment it can cause the imprecise, drifting steering characteristics

Any body buy that? If it were you, what would you ask the tire dealer to do in this situation where driving at freeway speeds the sprinter feels 'drunk'! ?
Thanks.. .here is the website regarding wheel alignment.

http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
So I may go back and ask them about the tires and or the alignment, specifically the 'caster' which according the one website below , states that if the caster changes from positive to negative with alignment it can cause the imprecise, drifting steering characteristics

Any body buy that?
Here's the limitation you'll run into with trying to adjust the caster.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5663

-Jon
 

Eric Experience

Well-known member
Rjbub
As I mentioned in my 1st post the problem is clearly alignment. You drive in with a good vehicle and come out with a bad one with one of the worlds best tyres. To explain in a bit more detail. The design of the sprinter is focused on low running cost. One factor is low rolling resistance. The lowest rolling resistance is achieved when the wheels are vertical and have zero tow in. It is difficult to maintain this with changing load conditions so the designer tries to get it correct at a nominal load. When you get your wheels adjusted you must measure the load and and adjust it or measure the camber and then calculate the tow in to match that camber , hence the graph I mentioned. The average tyre fitter is not capable of such complex work so the books supplied with tyre alignment machines show a figure for tow in which was probably just a typical value. You and thousands of others have had your vehicle maladjusted for no good reason other than the dealer getting paid for an unnecessary procedure. The better dealers have a job card where they note down the before and after readings of alignment you best hope is to get that card and adjust the tow in back to the before reading. Castor is dificut to adjust on a`sprinter so it is unlikely that it was changed.
Eric
 

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Re: misalighnment?, play with the air pressures

Caster is almost certainly your problem.
I would ask the tech what specs were off and corrected.
Few repair facilities have a proper rack with a craftsman working it.

Not the same setup but:
I run 70psi front 80psi rear and 275/65/18 Firestone Transforce e rated tires.
Koni rear shocks set full firm, a larger Helwig rear bar in the rear, stock in front, my Sprinter rides firm, rolls forever and handles pretty well.
All my street driven cars run near the upper limits of recommended pressure listed on the side wall, adjusted based on driving results...
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
I can't find the post right now, but I vaguely remember a Unimog camber kit that someone around here may - remember I'm old and my memory's fading - have said would work on 2007-2009 US/Canadian Sprinters.


From www.rockauto.com

MOOG-Caster-Kit-for-2500.JPG

First get your caster angle definitively and reproducibly determined then consider buying this kit if the angle math works out.

-Jon

PS: I'm not saying this kit is the only alternative... it's just the first one I found.
 
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sailquik

Well-known member
rjbub,
Whatever the tire shop did to "align" your Sprinter to the specifcations in their "book"
may very well be the problem.
As suggested here, most good alignment machines give you a full print out of the "before"
numbers, the specifications for the various adjustable alignment parameters, and the
after adjustment numbers (which, if they did a quality alignment job, will fall as near the
center point of the tolerance as possible).
So, go back to them and insist they give you the before and after numbers as well as the
specifications from their book.
Post numbers/specs here!
We have several MB/Freightliner and Dodge techs who can look up what the factory alignment
criteria is and then you can compare.
Many alignment machines come with specifications books that are absolutely wrong!
Roger
 
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PLUMMER

New member
I roll the Mich LTX and love them. Pressures 70 rear 65 front. (cold) So 80&72 at temp. GVW 6200-8900lbs. It get 4.6% more MPG than what the dash says. And the larger tires roll .91 miles for every mile the odometer counts. Speed tops at 87 mph and about 1 mph faster than what needle says, before it was 2 mph less. I only feel drift on very high or gusty wind conditions as the vehicle is almost 2" taller and slightly narrower tires. Wet, snow or ice traction is excellent even when windy. If your vehicle is not wandering on a flat level road and your tire wear is even then its hard to say your alignment if off. I would definitely have an authorized sprinter tech do any work on the van. Never trust the bums in the tire shops. Atleast around my area. Good Luck
 

showkey

Well-known member
Re: misalighnment?, play with the air pressures

Caster is almost certainly your problem.
I would ask the tech what specs were off and corrected.
Few repair facilities have a proper rack with a craftsman working it.

...
I will disagree with caster being the problem:

Caster can not be changed (at least no easily) so it unlikely the tire store change it. Unless they curb it , see below

OP states tires and alignment ..............then the problems started. ??????

So possible tire problem:

To rule out tires rotate side to side and front to back and see the the concern changes???
If it does you have a tire problem. Even the best, most expensive tires can have a bad one

If it does not change we are NOW back to alignment:

Need to get the current setting and and compare to specs:

CASTER should be checked but it will be 2.6 and 4.0 degrees depending on ride height and load. With those angle specs caster would have to be way out to cause pull. If it is way out look for BENT PARTS. Impact to curb or hugh pot hole at speed with one wheel can knock caster out of spec. (it is rare) Measure wheel base side to side in bad cases.
Yes caster can cause drift-pulls and the van will go in the direction of the most neg caster if it off but not likely with the Sprinter set up of high caster specs of near 3.0 degrees.

Camber can be changed with repostioning strut on the steering knuckle and camber adjustment bolts.
Camber will cause pull and drifts.
Changing camber will effect toe and toe must be reset before test driving each time.

CAMBER SPEC 1.0 +/- .3 degree.

Van will pull or drift to the most positive camber side......example: Right 1.0 left 1.5 .....van goes left.

Example two: Camber right 1.3 left 1.2 but van goes left. "Corrective" alignment change right camber to 1.0 and center steering, reset toe and test drive. Good alignment tech will know this stuff inside out. Its more about current setting than specs. Corrective alignment might mean the right camber needs to be at .9 or .8 in this case (example) to go straight.

Camber and toe problems will make the van feel loose. Toe wears tires fast and bad, but generally does not cause drift pull unless its excessive.
 
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Eric Experience

Well-known member
Showkey.
You are quoting the incorrect figures that have caused this problem. The camber varies with load but is nominaly 0 . Because camber goes from negative to positive depending on load toe must go from + to - also. You must measure camber and then look up toe. Eric.
 

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