I have a 2013 2500 170 that I did a conversion on last year. I bought it with 195,000 miles on it with unknown maintenance history. I have put about 20,000 miles on it after I serviced everything and it has worked beautifully. Last week we took it on a short day trip and about 25 miles from the house the engine quit. I had it towed to my local neighborhood shop with whom I trust and found out the engine had seized. I was unable to really find a good option for a replacement. Since I have been in the automotive parts business all my life, I have grown to not trust remans. by unknown rebuilders or used junk yard engines. ( I have heard horror stories where an eng or trans was sold dozens of times from a low milage junkyard vehicle) I did read on this forum that the best option is a reman from MB but that price would be15,000 or more. That was not really an option for me so I passed on the that idea. After a week on the internet and not getting anywhere, I decided to call MB. Was I surprised with the result. I was able to purchase a complete MB reman engine for 9,500. I mean this engine is complete includes turbo, injectors, fuel lines, hoses and the complete engine wiring harness. I only needed to add belts, starter ,alternator and ac compressor , everything else was included. And the best part of the whole deal was that I received a complete brand new engine not a reman. I talk to the rep. about that and he said that sometimes happens and will ship a new engine if they run out of cores to rebuild. YEA for me. My shop was very happy also, a lot less work for them.
New engine
- Thread starter sailcat
- Start date
Kajtek1
2015 3500 X long limo RV
MB USA in last years routinely sell expensive new parts as rebuilds.
The common understanding is that is for removing old parts from black market.
Anyway, good to hear you have good deal on new engine.
When this is 1st report about OM642 engine seized on Sprinter forum, you can find several such reports on sedan forum.
When the phenomena is not really proved, common conclusion is that using less than 229.52 oils what creates it.
Other reports show that cheaper oil turned into pudding. Did you inspect yours?
The common understanding is that is for removing old parts from black market.
Anyway, good to hear you have good deal on new engine.
When this is 1st report about OM642 engine seized on Sprinter forum, you can find several such reports on sedan forum.
When the phenomena is not really proved, common conclusion is that using less than 229.52 oils what creates it.
Other reports show that cheaper oil turned into pudding. Did you inspect yours?
4wheeldog
2018 144" Tall Revel
Quite a number of foreign manufacturers sell new stuff as rebuild in the U.S. market.
Apparently, it is advantageous from a tariff standpoint to label them as "Remanufactured" rather than new.
And the core charge (As Kajtek implied) keeps the old engine out of the local "Rebuilt" market.
The $15,000 figure you quoted is what I have heard as the installed price. But regardless, it sounds like you got a great deal.
Apparently, it is advantageous from a tariff standpoint to label them as "Remanufactured" rather than new.
And the core charge (As Kajtek implied) keeps the old engine out of the local "Rebuilt" market.
The $15,000 figure you quoted is what I have heard as the installed price. But regardless, it sounds like you got a great deal.
No, we have not inspected it and probably never will. What happen was we had just started our trip and were 15 miles out, going up a steep hill about 60 mph. I noticed that the engine was losing power quickly and then the engine shut off. This happened in 2-3 seconds. The engine temp was at 220, trans temp was 195. Oil was full and the coolant level was normal. There were no codes stored. 220 was hotter than it should have been since it was only 70 out and had only been running for a short time. (I have seen the temp as high as 223 after a long ride in 100 degrees weather) The way it happened and the fact that the shop was unable to turn the engine over with a long bar leads us to believe that the eng seized. It did not make any noise when it failed. I have driven enough cars, trucks, motorcycles' ATV's and 4 wheelers over the last 50 years that the very first thought that came to mind was that the engine seized. Are we right, I don't know. All I know is that it won't run.
I should be at 12 out the door after core return.
4wheeldog
2018 144" Tall Revel
There are instances of engines in vans near the year of yours losing an internal plug, so that oil flow to a main bearing is stopped. Dennis (Linden) may be able to shed more light. The good news is that particular problem was addressed in later motors, so the new engine should be good for a long, long time.
Oh I have looked at the dipstick on the side of the road. It is the first thing I did. It was clean, I had changed the oil not too long before.Aren't you intrigued what happen? If the engine is still in the shop, at least checking the dipstick might be worth it.
This is what members on mbworld reported.
The engine on the picture was dealer-maintained BTW
Cheyenne
UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
I assume you also changed the filter so was the central 'spike' of the filter housing intact?
Photo borrowed from another thread...
Keith.
lindenengineering
Well-known member
I will add a few comment that MIGHT be pertinent .
For starters carbon entrained in the oil has a tendency to scour the main bearings down the steel backing.
This condition results in an abrupt loss or steady reduction in oil pressure to the adjacent connecting rod crank pins resulting in seizure .
I reported this a few years ago and it was also confirmed by "engineering " at Mahle when I submitted my findings/failure samples to their senior engineering staff who confirmed my hypothesis was correct..
For that reason I have always questioned MB's service periods of 20,000 miles as being too excessive in some cases.
As for sludging, two things are pertinent.
Infrequent or no adherence to oil changes, very short trip cycles and mixing of incompatible oils.
This condition is prevalent on grey market import of complete 50,000 mile "take outs" from Japan.
And why is that you might ask?
Simply put the Japanese auto service market is every expensive to do oil changes, few do their own, and since most cars in Japan won't pass their emissions test after two years, scrappage if very high, so people don't bother changing their oil !
Coolant in the oil.
It doesn't take much to seize an engine if water or coolant is in the oil. Entry is by gasket failure, cooler/HE compromised, or even on early engines the block blanking leaking slightly under that oil cooer/ heat exchanger.
Now interested
For info I wrote this below a while back, with a Dickensian theme knowing that MOST ,wouldn't take the time to read it let alone appreciate what carbon excess can do in an engine.
Gents.
It wouldn't be right in this text as not to include carbon's abrasive cousin in this submission as to be without it! Consequently this technical observation would have no tangible relevance other than what might be profoundly categorized as musings of the workshop, but physical evidence is afoot ! Hence, it is called "in short" gentlemen and to you the tender fairer sex reading this might call the dastardly common or garden dust & dirt known as "silica" ! In some circles if not all these manifestations known to all as crankshaft & shell bearing failures on OM642 Sprinter engines!
Again in short the word "scouring" is observed as a salient problem not to be overlooked and caused mostly by that black lurking b-laggard in all diesel engines called Carbon or Soot!
Those of dubious filters and inevitable remiss of that what is of common but expensive overheads, called maintenance & giving cause to popular expressions of our latter day rise; This in short called stealerships by popular expression & involvement, plus those terrible grubby Independent repair shops that seem to plague every nook, cranny, & corner of our societies offering advice to the unwary & what one might call highway robbers like Dick Turpin! Obviously made familiar in this case with terms like "Stand and Deliver" being the hue and cry of the latter day in advanced motor vehicle repair facilities all facing the "travails" of the common man!. Akin that is it might be said to having a trophy wife I suppose, that may give you pecuniary nightmares of a particular fashion such as having an unfettered Mastercard in her tender hands on the High St or you retiring on a full stomach and having a mental fit during the night thinking of big end bearings of that broken beloved perambulation called a Sprinter van or GL or E Class "something " What worse the mental convulsions in the middle of Montana with population sum of zero and a dead Sprinter showing "start blocking" as a fault! ! Sadly that this situation has no romantic significance in the the realms of Victorian prose such as it was when you purchased it new with great expectations of the trouble free open road ! These are modern day manifestations are simply as the eloquent conviction made popular by writer's tragedy and of adversity of the dreaded eras depicted with Charles Dickens and his Greek tragedy like novels of humanistic kind.,
Consequently in spite of efficacious attempts to categorize the problem and fend off boastful statements by pundits, including "wisciouos false claims" bordering upon the absurd ! I have this to report with supporting observations including substantiation support from Mahle/Clevite; those renown engine bearing & piston manufacturers of some notoriety and motor industry fame !
The Specimen
2011 Sprinter van with OM642 engine.
Mileage to failure investigation 179,000 miles
Symptoms high oil consumption.
Observations upon tear down.
Engine had been run on various oil brands & weights due to consumption problems. Filters currently installed were all aftermarket including a Napa Wix oil filer and air filter of Chinese origin with about 50 % of dust & dirt contamination.
Removal of the major engine components revealed unusual wearing properties to all shell bearings and of course destruction of oil control rings ! ( the reasons for the original decision to teardown)
Of particular concern was the upper big end bearing shells that had a shiny strip amounting to about 30% width of the the shell bearing in question. Numbers 2 & 3 rod bearing heavily scoured creating a channel like groove clear through the copper lead flashing to the backing steel shell of about a qtr of the bearing length.
Other bearings shells showed similar scour traces but NOT to the same same depth of degradation. Dirt pitting was evident throughout most of the engine bearing shells observed
Oil tests showed no adverse conditions of metal or carbon nor silica contamination other than normal amounts .
Observations of the crankshaft oil gallery drillings revealed again related erosion of the crank counter bore recesses being somewhat oval in nature due to erosion.
Submitting samples to Clevite /Mahle for secondary investigation, the confirmed conclusion from their chief engineer is that carbon scouring is damaging the engine crankshaft & bearings in some case to a point of destruction due to the material erosion & dirt contamination.
This is for now for us at Linden a cause for more more in depth investigation and suggest remedial & preventative measures ! An encore for sure, plus a second appearance at least
Maybe with luck an appearance at the Royal Albert Hall but this really would be workshop musings --Engineering reports even in Victoriana times were never regarded as prose of romantic composition .
Case of the Carbon Scour to be continued.
Don't let yours fall to the carbon scour scourge.
Dennis
Year 2018
Kajtek1
2015 3500 X long limo RV
Was it clean oil on dipstick, or clean dipstick?
Also how the last oil change went? Did you drain full expected amount and how much did you refill of what oil?
That brings up a thought. The oil had just been changed recently and the oil on the dipstick was still clear. I have changed the oil 3 times in the 20000 miles I have owned it. On the oil change before this last one I added 13 quarts and on the first trip after the oil change the light-stating that the engine was overfilled came on. This last oil change I only added 12 1/2 quarts and it measured full??? Does this thing have 3/4 of a quart of sludge? You guys have me intrigued now, so I think that when I get the core back from the shop, I will at least pull the pan and maybe a bearing cap or 2. I will keep you updated.
Kajtek1
2015 3500 X long limo RV
Getting bearing cap on those engines is not easy due to shields, but pulling lower oil pan sure will give us more info for the future.
MB engines, or actually no engine seize without good reasons.
Normal wear is loose pistons and I have a friend who's Honda at 300k miles takes lot of oil, has big by flow an oil shows some particles.
Friend still made it 600 miles home from my place and is not planning to do anything till the engine dies on him.
MB engines, or actually no engine seize without good reasons.
Normal wear is loose pistons and I have a friend who's Honda at 300k miles takes lot of oil, has big by flow an oil shows some particles.
Friend still made it 600 miles home from my place and is not planning to do anything till the engine dies on him.
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I emailed MB this week and they suggested 229.31 or 229.51. Different than 229.52????
In was a Field Mechanical Claims Inspector for General Motors back in the early 80’s and I inspected a car that had sludge build up like the one in the photo. The vehicle was also dealer maintained. The owner of the car was a Priest who took several short trips to visit his parishioners every day. The was up north in cold country and we figured he never drove the car long enough to get it up to temp to evaporate the condensation from the frost on the inside of the engine. There was a lot of discussion if we should cover the engine or not but we did authorized the claim because he (the dealer) had his records and there is no exclusion in the warranty contract for driving patterns. If it was someone without records had the same sludge we probably would have denied the claim.Aren't you intrigued what happen? If the engine is still in the shop, at least checking the dipstick might be worth it.
This is what members on mbworld reported.
The engine on the picture was dealer-maintained BTW
Kajtek1
2015 3500 X long limo RV
What is on the picture is not a typical sludge. Other forum has more pictures, where the stuff supports screwdriver standing up and I found youtube video where mechanic taps the gello- like oil.
From what I can get - the oil with wrong chemical balance was used and created strange chemical reaction on low mileage oil. That happens on OM642 engines, when nobody reported it on OM651.
Now I do have sludge in my library if you want to compare.
From what I can get - the oil with wrong chemical balance was used and created strange chemical reaction on low mileage oil. That happens on OM642 engines, when nobody reported it on OM651.
Now I do have sludge in my library if you want to compare.
Old motor out and new one in. I pulled the pan today. No sludge. I did find a lot of metal filings and 4 small pieces of thin metal. If this was a gas engine I would say it was bearing material. Im not a diesel guy. I also pulled the filter and lots of metal filings. The oil and filter had been changed 40 miles previous. Tho oil was also very dark. A little surprising. The new engine has about 120 miles on it and the oil is clear as new.
Attachments
scooterpooter
New member
What dealership did you buy your engine from??
Do not buy any any Sprinter if it doesn't have any service history from MB service. Sprinter Van w/o service history has probably drive 100k miles per year. Then was taken to, what we call " Watchmaker" for meter reversing. Then it goes for sale. The new 2020 models are bulletproof for this procedure. Everything else is not. Be aware.