Test radiator?

[jackbombay]

My van has seemed to run warmer than it should for a long time. I did recently have the ffan clutch fail, and that has been replaced and the van runs a touch cooler, but still warmer than it should.

I have a 2003 sprinter,; my boss has a 2005, I drove mine today in hot weather and then drove his, hos would NOT go above 190, mine gladly went up to 210, on the same roads, in the same weather conditions...

A radiator isn't terribly expensive, but its certainly not cheap either, so is there a way to test the one currently in my van?

my water pump is fairly new, as is serpentine belt and tensioner, the AC condenser has been cleaned and flows air well, thermostat is fairly new as well.

It really seems that the radiator is the only thing left...


Thaoughts?

 

[ECU]

Aux water pump.

 

[jackbombay]

Aux water pump.

The one on the firewall right in front of the driver? I did replace that about 8 years ago, but sometimes my "rest" heat has not worked over the last year or so, so I know that it is not working consistently anymore, but would that really result in a 20˚ engine temp difference?

 

[Midwestdrifter]

Some aftermarket fan clutches engage at a lower temp. That may be the difference. I am not convinced 210F is too hot.

 

[billintomahawk]

The one on the firewall right in front of the driver? I did replace that about 8 years ago, but sometimes my "rest" heat has not worked over the last year or so, so I know that it is not working consistently anymore, but would that really result in a 20˚ engine temp difference?

My Aux pump is not working, no rest. heat, I'm running at 190F.

bill in tomahawk

 

[jackbombay]

Some aftermarket fan clutches engage at a lower temp. That may be the difference. I am not convinced 210F is too hot.

My van and my boss' van both have brand new fan clutches from europarts, neither has more than a 100 miles, so there shouldn't be any notable variation due to fan clutch.

I feel that 210˚ is ok as well, but my van gets there so easily, you have posted about running WOT for ~15 minutes up long grades, without hitting 215˚, if I did that my temp needle would wrap around so far it might hit the 90 MPH mark on the speedometer!

I slow down a fair bit up long grades to keep the temp limited to 215˚, and my van is a lot lighter than yours, and it seems you never slow for grades...

My Aux pump is not working, no rest. heat, I'm running at 190F.

bill in tomahawk

Thanks for the info! I will replace mine at some point, but it's not much of a priority as of now.

 

[Midwestdrifter]

I run grades by my EGT gauge. I stay under 1250F sustained typically.

Do you have significant buildup visible in your reservoir? Previous owners neglecting coolant changes...

When was the last time you cleaned between the radiator and intercooler?

 

[autostaretx]

I run grades by my EGT gauge. I stay under 1250F sustained typically.

:gasp:

--dick (gotta get a longer thermometer...)

 

[jackbombay]

I run grades by my EGT gauge. I stay under 1250F sustained typically.

Do you have significant buildup visible in your reservoir? Previous owners neglecting coolant changes...

When was the last time you cleaned between the radiator and intercooler?

I run grades with my EGT gauge too, I stick to 1100˚, and if its hot out I stick to 1000˚.

I got the van with 72k miles, I've changed the coolant once at about 180k miles, 260k on the van now.

Nothing notable in the reservoir.

I cleaned the whole cooling stack very well about 4 years ago, it wasn't that bad then, so the cleaning made minimal difference.

 

[jackbombay]

I'm thinking that letting my van idle for 10 minutes and using an IR thermometer to check the coolant temp in and out of it and doing the same for my boss' sprinter that had a new radiator installed a couple years ago could provide some relevant info, I think I'll have time to do that today.

 

[Midwestdrifter]

You would need to get the thermostat fully open. The Accuracy of an IR thermometer in that application is probably within a 15° range. As the emissivity of each individual hose will vary somewhat.

The issue you will run into an idle, is that if the radiator has some moderate restriction it may only show up at higher flow rates.

 

[jrod5150]

My van has seemed to run warmer than it should for a long time. I did recently have the ffan clutch fail, and that has been replaced and the van runs a touch cooler, but still warmer than it should.

I have a 2003 sprinter,; my boss has a 2005, I drove mine today in hot weather and then drove his, hos would NOT go above 190, mine gladly went up to 210, on the same roads, in the same weather conditions...

A radiator isn't terribly expensive, but its certainly not cheap either, so is there a way to test the one currently in my van?

my water pump is fairly new, as is serpentine belt and tensioner, the AC condenser has been cleaned and flows air well, thermostat is fairly new as well.

It really seems that the radiator is the only thing left...


Thaoughts?

Typically with bad radiators, I notice they will heat up abnormally on a very very slight incline (almost flat land) on a hot summer LA day. Say hitting the 1 on the 180. Since I’m constantly testing T1N sprinters I just pretty much can tell, of course things like an over pressurized cooling system due to a combustion leak changes the game

I will say fan clutches IMO are really a problem. I started buying Behr Mercedes OE a few weeks ago and they are shit. Sending two back for warranty and the other two I’m returning as new unopened.

Verify your hearing the roar of the fan engaging before your needle is hitting your high spot. Personally as an owner I would change the radiator. It may be an 18 year old unit that no one has changed because it’s not leaking which means nothing. If you don’t hear the fan clutch kicking in why not change them both? Not worth frying a motor

Btw aux water pump does nothing in regards to an engine running hot. FB forum T1N self proclaimed mechanics hard at work spreading misinformation

 

[jackbombay]

Typically with bad radiators, I notice they will heat up abnormally on a very very slight incline (almost flat land) on a hot summer LA day. Say hitting the 1 on the 180.

Pretty much what mine is doing.

Here is a pic after getting off the freeway and driving through a mile of stoplights, going slightly downhill, at 30 MPH, the AC was on, but it was only 87* out, and the temp increased from the time I exited the freeway till the time I took this pic 3-4 minutes later...

of course things like an over pressurized cooling system due to a combustion leak changes the game

I have no pressure in the cooling system from exhaust gas.

I will say fan clutches IMO are really a problem.

I just installed a new one from europarts, seems to be working fine.

Personally as an owner I would change the radiator. It may be an 18 year old unit that no one has changed because it’s not leaking which means nothing.

I'm going to go ahead and change it, I'm actually in LA working right now, but will be headed north on monday I think, I'd like to change out my radiator this weekend, but don't think I can get one delivered before saturday, do you have one you'd be interested in selling?

Thanks for the info!!!

 

[billintomahawk]

You guys trust thermostats way more than I do.

bill in tomahawk

 

[bored]

You can usually test if your radiator is clogged by squeezing the radiator hose when the thermostat is open and someone is revving the engine.

If the hose wont squeeze easily then you have a clog.

 

[Nautamaran]

When evaluating the fan clutch, keep in mind that they trigger based on the rad air’s exit temperature, not the coolant temperature. Since a clogged radiator will allow a large proportion of air to pass through unheated, the air the fan clutch sees may still be well below the coolant temperature.

Our G-05 coolant is time rated for 5-years, not mileage. Linden’s posts often recommend a citrus flush if there is any question of cleanliness in the system due to neglect or gelling caused by mixing of incompatible coolants.
Be sure to keep some lubricant in the coolant during the rinse cycle or you could be shopping for a water pump too.

-dave

 

[jrod5150]

I just installed a new one from europarts, seems to be working fine.

Seems to be working fine and is working fine are very different. If its warming up when your slowing down in stop n go traffic that sounds like more of a fan clutch issue vs a radiator. Id suggest you confirm your fan clutch is engaging at the proper temperature.

I'm going to go ahead and change it, I'm actually in LA working right now, but will be headed north on monday I think, I'd like to change out my radiator this weekend, but don't think I can get one delivered before saturday, do you have one you'd be interested in selling?

I don't sell parts, just vans

 

[Midwestdrifter]

Typical fan clutch issues would be overheating in stop and go traffic with light load. But the van cools fine cruising down a flat highway. This is a failure to lock or modest weakness. My van typically stays around 190F in stop and go traffic with the AC on. Though it may be higher in 110F temps. Maybe 200F max.

The next stage of fan clutch failure is excessive slip, both unlocked and locked. My vans clutch basically freewheeled, and it would overheat at a stop, and even on the highway. I had better cooling at say 70mph, but at 50-60 it was getting hot, 215F or so.

 

[jackbombay]

Seems to be working fine and is working fine are very different.

It won't slow down when I press a rolled up newspaper against it, should I try jamming a piece of rebar into the fan for a more comprehensive test?

I don't sell parts, just vans

Right on, thanks!

You guys trust thermostats way more than I do.

bill in tomahawk

My van has a fairly new thermostat and the behavior of the temp needle before and after the thermostat swap remained the same.

You can usually test if your radiator is clogged by squeezing the radiator hose when the thermostat is open and someone is revving the engine.

If the hose wont squeeze easily then you have a clog.

I'll give this a try!

Our G-05 coolant is time rated for 5-years, not mileage. Linden’s posts often recommend a citrus flush if there is any question of cleanliness in the system due to neglect or gelling caused by mixing of incompatible coolants.
Be sure to keep some lubricant in the coolant during the rinse cycle or you could be shopping for a water pump too.

-dave

The van has only had G-05 in it so there shouldn't be any gelling issues.

I'm likely just going to replace the radiator at this point, $220 for a nissan from rock auto...

 

[Midwestdrifter]

I think you can test the clutch lockup thusly.

Paint/mark one blade white so its easily visible when rotating. Get the engine hot, stop the vehicle, and get out to view the fan. Unlocked you should get ~25% of idle RPM. Locked should be 60% or greater. So a 650prm idle would be 650/60*0.6 Or about 6.5 rotations per second. unlocked would be pretty obvious, only 2.5 rotations per second.

You could also use one of these digital handheld tachometers.

Neiko 20713A Digital Tachometer, Non Contact Laser Photo | 2.5 - 99,999 RPM Accuracy | Batteries Included: Digital Tacometer For Measuring: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Neiko 20713A Digital Tachometer, Non Contact Laser Photo | 2.5 - 99,999 RPM Accuracy | Batteries Included: Digital Tacometer For Measuring: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Another test is the cold startup. With the engine sitting overnight, the clutch should be locked for the first 15 or 20 seconds after startup. If it doesn't, that would indicate something funky inside. For example my new clutch is definitely louder on cold start than the old one.