Replacement Low Profile Rooftop Air Conditioner Options

Camp

Sprinter Westfalia
The Dometic Penguin II and Coleman Mach 8 Cub have been discussed on various threads, but I wanted to add one more to the list. I just noticed that the extremely silent AC unit that Advanced RV has been installing for a few years may now available from another retailer for far less. The model is sold in Australia as the Houghton Belaire, but has been rebranded by both US retailers. Previous threads I've seen on the Advanced RV unit identify it as the Houghton Belaire HB3200, but the model number for the one from the new distributor (RecPro) appears to indicate that theirs is the Houghton Belaire HB3400. I can't find any confirmation that the Advanced RV and RecPro units are the same, but photographs of the components looks very similar. The specs are good (especially the decibel level), but I think the somewhat Euro look vs the Dometic/Coleman units is another thing that makes this a good option for the Westy.

RecPro RP-AC3400
$1,349.95
RV Air Conditioner Low Profile 13.5K Quiet AC with Heat Pump, Remote, Non-Ducted - RecPro

Advanced RV Quiet Air Conditioner
$2,217.00
Quiet Air Conditioner for Motor HomeQuiet Air Conditioner For Motorhome | The Ultimate RV Air Conditioner – Upfitters Resource
The Nuts and Bolts of the Quiet Air Conditioner - YouTube
 

Bernd Pfrommer

Active member
Looks like a 240v unit, so unfortunately not a drop-in replacement for the NAFTA James Cook which runs on 12V. With the increased proliferation of LiFePO4 batteries, I'm hoping for something quiet and slim to become available as a 12V DC unit.
 

Camp

Sprinter Westfalia
Looks like a 240v unit, so unfortunately not a drop-in replacement for the NAFTA James Cook which runs on 12V. With the increased proliferation of LiFePO4 batteries, I'm hoping for something quiet and slim to become available as a 12V DC unit.
The US model RecPro is listed as 115V/60Hz.

I'm hoping in the coming years of development of 12V units that the price comes down, and the quality goes up. Below are some of the 12V ones available today that I have come across.

Kingtec

Nomadic Cooling

Cruise N Comfort

Zero Breeze (run from this one!!!)
Zero Breeze: BUSTED! - YouTube
 

K.C.

Member
Starting to get back into look at AC swapping options too and wanted to share my journey and ask opinions and questions:

Seems like most folks have been happy with a Dometic install so was looking at options within that company but the only 12v is the Coolair rtx2000 but unfortunately after looking at an install video it would take out our nice overhead cabinet. :( Otherwise looks like a great unit!

Questions for the group:

* Has anyone done the Nomadic yet? Was wondering how easy it would be to hook out our vans original controls.
* Has anyone done the Dometic Penguin yet with DC kit? Was wondering how easy it would be to hook out our vans original controls.
* Does anyone know the BTU rating of our old Kerstners?
* Pros and cons of running an AC unit with DC kit?

Other thoughts: After reviewing the Nomadic sounds like a great option for off the grid AC use however, our rigs are not capable of having a larger house bank (even if Lithium) needed to run them for any extended times. At least I'm not willing to create a new larger house bank area taking away from stowage.

After thinking of the above getting an AC 115v unit with inverter to use while driving I could get one with a heat pump which would be very nice for the passengers (my kiddos) on days where the dash unit can't keep up.

So right now I'm leaning to a "Low Profile Dometic Penguin II w/ Heat Pump" with a "Dometic DC Kit" if there's a way to hook up our vans original controls to it. Has anyone done this?



Hope all you ladies and gents find this info useful and thank you ahead of time for your thoughts and collaboration in finding the best unit for our vans!


Thx!
 

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
1. What type of camping and travel?

Is an A/C unit while driving really needed (where, how long/many hours, etc.)?

When A/C is needed at a location, would it be likely that you'd be staying at a campground with pool (for the kids) and hook-up?

What is the cost of an air conditioner which is off-grid (generator, capacity) versus the cost of campgrounds with hook-ups?

Or are the ideal campgrounds without hook-ups and need air conditioner?

Noise--what type of campgrounds and what type of neighborly noise? AC and generator?

Road handling is worst with a rooftop AC-- The high center of gravity and heavy weight toward rear of Sprinter.

Weight is used up by the air conditioner and generator.

Also note that the 120 volt air conditioners usually have the rooftop opening in the wrong place for the Westy. So either a new hole has to be made between the rooftop speakers or the air conditioner is mounted in the reverse position (see AutoCamp).

There are several Westies now where the owners have removed the Kerstner air conditioners and not replaced. Solar panels can occupy that space. Owners have reported better road handling (less sway from passing trucks).

2. Options

A. 12 volt DC air conditioner like existing Westy set-up but a better one.

Issues: Does the 200 amp Bosch alternator have the duty cycle to operate the air conditioner and for how long? Are Westy alternators wearing out faster because of AC and battery recharging than regular Sprinters with lower-amp alternators? Note that OneManVan found a terminal or bolt on the alternator became really hot when running the Kerstner air conditioner. Issues with harmonic balancer pulleys on Sprinters with factory rear air conditioners--additional wear and tear from alternator and second auxillary belt? Also, how easy to service and get parts for that special 12 volt air conditioner (look at how hard it was just to get a replacement belt for the Kerstner air conditioner).

Also, have to check what the maximum loads are (anecdotal evidence that when coach batteries are discharged and front Sprinter air conditioner running, Sprinter alternator had problems getting Kerstner air conditioner going).

B. 120 volt air conditioner. Common in USA. Parts and service may be easier to obtain (although some internet folks say that RV rooftop air conditioners are just throw-away items now and not really serviceable).

C. Inverter for Running on the Road

Can use an inverter for a 120 volt AC to run off Sprinter alternator, but same issues as a 12 volt air conditioner--alternator and harmonic balancer wear and tear.

D. Generator

Can also run a 120 volt AC and a 12 volt AC (using converter(s) like existing Kerstner AC) off a generator.

Issues are whether willing to run risks of having an open propane valve to run generator when driving and propane capacity (how many hours)?

E. Alternative Generator

AutoCamp replaced his Kerstner air conditioner with a 120 volt air conditioner. He also replaced his noisy Onan generator with a Honda gas generator (quiet) and mounted the Honda on the rear door (he put spare tire back where Onan generator was). He had to test that the Honda generator could run the rooftop 120 volt air conditioner.

F. Portable Air Conditioners

These don't work as well, occupy space inside the Westy, etc., but might be an option for campground hook-up use.

G. Split Air Conditioners

There is discussion in the Conversion subforums about using split air conditioners to reduce the weight on the rooftop. The compressor and condenser might be mounted on the rear doors or under the van (spare tire area, but road debris).

H. Fans

Bathroom fan (Fantastic Vent or MaxxAir)--often effective in more moderate climates. Various versions can be left open while driving.

3. General Background Information

A. Two Different Kerstner Air Conditioners.
When the the first Westies were imported into the USA, the Kerstner air conditioner was even lower profile. The original Kerstner air conditioner has a blue swoop running along the side of the air conditioner cover.

Apparently, owners complained that the Kerstner air conditioner was insufficient and Airstream/Westfalia went around replacing the original Kerster air conditioner with a higher output Kerstner air conditioner (no blue swoops on the side). The Meanwell converters had to be adjusted for higher voltage. Heavier cables/wires (120 volt) was run from the breaker box (and the circuit breaker was changed/upgraded to higher amps?).

There is apparently at least one Westy where the original owner chose not to replace their Kerstner air conditioner with the higher output air conditioners.

Unfortunately, don't know or remember the BTU outputs of those two air conditioners.

B. Original Controls. Which original controls seem desirable? The Kissling relay switch for 12 volt/120 volt has been problematic (See OneManVan's assessment--perhaps mounted in wrong vertical position). The on/off switch looks like a relic from the 50s. There are the Meanwell converters (2 of them).

Look forward to seeing what you find and do.
 
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grozier

Active member
Issues: Does the 200 amp Bosch alternator have the duty cycle to operate the air conditioner and for how long? Are Westy alternators wearing out faster because of AC and battery recharging than regular Sprinters with lower-amp alternators? Note that OneManVan found a terminal or bolt on the alternator became really hot when running the Kerstner air conditioner. Issues with harmonic balancer pulleys on Sprinters with factory rear air conditioners--additional wear and tear from alternator and second auxillary belt? Also, how easy to service and get parts for that special 12 volt air conditioner (look at how hard it was just to get a replacement belt for the Kerstner air conditioner).
From approximately May 2008 to June 2009 I lived and worked in our van. Most of the time the conditions were temperate or cool, sometimes requiring the heater. But there were days that required the dash air all day, and at least a handful that required the roof air all day. Towards the very end of my journey I noticed the battery level steadily dropping during one of these A/C days, and sure enough, I had to replace the alternator in a friend's driveway. (Knowing what I know now, I would have simply changed the voltage regulator. If anyone wants a good alternator with a burned-out regulator, send me a note.)

Moral of the story is that OldWest is right -- extended operation of the roof air at idle will fry the alternator. Operation during driving, when the alternator is spinning faster and underhood temperatures are lower, should not be a problem.

The stock roof air on Westies came from a company that makes cooling units for fish delivery vans -- see below from one in Berlin. Apparently the early vans had a smaller unit that couldn't keep up with Texas and Florida summers, so they swapped in a hideously oversized, dangerously heavy, and unbearably noisy unit that cycles between off and freeze. There are much better options out there in my opinion. Getting that thing off the roof (and all the ancillary junk out of the back) was one of the best things we ever did to the van.
 

Attachments

ctmcdaniel

Cross Member
Don't know if this one has been mentioned before but if not then it might be worth considering.


Dometic RTX 2000

View attachment 180221
I have one on order at nomadic cooling. I'm hoping that a honda 1000 generator and my victron inverter will power it if I need to run it all day for some reason. Mainly it's useful for sleeping When driving or stopped for 8 hours overnight on cross country drives at night.
 

K.C.

Member
I have one on order at nomadic cooling. I'm hoping that a honda 1000 generator and my victron inverter will power it if I need to run it all day for some reason. Mainly it's useful for sleeping When driving or stopped for 8 hours overnight on cross country drives at night.
Yep looks at that one and it looks awesome. Too bad it would require you to take out your overhead cabinet which I'm avoiding.
 

K.C.

Member
Ok, you all have me thinking more. Thanks! I'm concerned about the alternator and harmonic balancer wear and tear especially since were going to allow some rentals on Outdoorsy to help pay for them and the upgrade. Just don't think folks will respect not running the AC at low RPMs.

So question: is there an AMP load or anything I can look into to stay below so I don't have alt and balancer wear?

Also with the Nomadic hooking up to the house bank does this protect it in anyway?

Thx!
 

grozier

Active member
There is a high idle switch for just this reason. It is cheap enough and apparently easy to wire up. You need a dealer (or maybe the Dr A tool) to enable it.
 

Melly60

New member
So have a 2500 x 170 4x4 on order... the majority of time used in British Col Mtn’s or on Vanc Island so air not required, but do plan on possible winter trips to Az, & interior BC so need some AC boondocking. looking at 12 V Dometic 3000...have 500AH of Li & 300W panels & thinking of Honda gen.

75% of time AC will be shore power... I’m told this can be set up that when plugged into shore, it can be wired to a 3000 W inverter to by pass the batteries. wife likes her pm naps & would like to run AC maybe couple hours in PM heat without Generator running...

Any thoughts, I know it’s not a cheap way to go....any Suggestions on better / cost effective alternatives, or comments on plan.... Just starting process. Thx
 

sierra101

New member
So have a 2500 x 170 4x4 on order... the majority of time used in British Col Mtn’s or on Vanc Island so air not required, but do plan on possible winter trips to Az, & interior BC so need some AC boondocking. looking at 12 V Dometic 3000...have 500AH of Li & 300W panels & thinking of Honda gen.

75% of time AC will be shore power... I’m told this can be set up that when plugged into shore, it can be wired to a 3000 W inverter to by pass the batteries. wife likes her pm naps & would like to run AC maybe couple hours in PM heat without Generator running...

Any thoughts, I know it’s not a cheap way to go....any Suggestions on better / cost effective alternatives, or comments on plan.... Just starting process. Thx
I believe this thread is geared towards the airstream Westfalia models... you would have many more options..
 

MNBrad

2020 170 4x4
Dometic RTX 2000
The problem I found in my research with this one is that it sinks down 5" from the ceiling. I'm 6'2", I can't have that.
The Nomadic one looks great, but it's a little too long on top with what I have up there and the placement options with my fan and solar.
 

Bernd Pfrommer

Active member
The problem I found in my research with this one is that it sinks down 5" from the ceiling. I'm 6'2", I can't have that.
The Nomadic one looks great, but it's a little too long on top with what I have up there and the placement options with my fan and solar.
It looks to me like the 5in might actually be measured from the top side of the hull, rather than the inside, so it may only stick less than 4in into your headroom. That's a lot less than the factory installed A/C!
I'm seriously considering getting the RTX 2000. With 200Ah of Lithium capacity (to be installed) I could run this thing (at 20amps) for a full night (8h) and still have 40ah of reserve in the batteries.
 

onemanvan

Active member
This company makes an interesting product. It's a mini split with 3 components. I could imagine putting the compressor in the space behind the bathroom mirror ( where the euro James Cook puts their water heater ). The condenser could be mounted on the rear of the fiberglass top ( on the passenger side adjacent to the back up light ). It would be a short run for the freon line from the condenser to the compressor. The evaporator could be mounted in the cabinet where the OEM Kerstner A/C is/was mounted.


Specifications:

The condenser assembly is a remote mounted condenser / fan assembly that is mounted outside the vehicle or area to be cooled.14" tall x 20" wide x 4-1/2”thick


The compressor box houses our compressor and controller board. It can be mounted anywhere inside the area to be cooled. 10” tall x 10” wide 10” deep.

The Evaporator assembly mounts inside the area to be cooled and is small enough to be hidden under a dash in a vehicle or built into an enclosure.15 3/4“ wide x 13 15/32“ deep x 6 1/8“ tall

Cooling Capacity 8k BTU

Power consumption 45 nominal amps @12 Volt DC



Westy split ac.jpg

This is the vacant space behind the bathroom mirror.
I placed a pencil in there for dimensional perspective.

Screenshot 2016-03-25 at 3.22.19 PM.png
 
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Bernd Pfrommer

Active member
Always great to have alternatives, and the promise of being able to keep the cabinetry as-is is tempting. A couple of reasons why I will probably still go with the RTX 2000:
- smaller company compared to Dometic so spare parts could become a problem
- the need to work with an HVAC shop to get the lines filled
- if there is a leak you can't just return the unit
- concerns about heat development near the compressor. The refrigerant gets hot when compressed. How hot will the compressor get from that? The line going from compressor to condenser unit can/must be insulated, but not sure about the compressor itself.
 

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