How long will a 2005 T1N last me....?

[johnholway]

Looking at buying a 2005 T1N 118 SHC with 160K miles on it... I'm by no means a mechanic or gear-head, and would be outsourcing the significant maintenance to a shop. I'm hoping I'll be able to man-up with help from this forum and learn to make minor repairs on my own.
People seem to drool over the durability of these engines... but I have no concept of how much longer I can expect before maintenance / repairs get really expensive.

The guy claims that he's a fantastic owner in terms of maintenance, and I would have a mechanic come with me.

With all of the gasoline vehicles I've purchased in the past, I've generally learned that 100,000 miles is when things start to get frequently pricey in terms of maintenance. But with this engine, I just have no clue where that mileage moment is... ha. Not to mention last time I bought a 15 year old vehicle the brakes and radiator fell apart within months.

Any advice...??

Added info based on comments: I live in Los Angeles, and I've seen many recommended mechanics on this forum that are near me. The intent of the vehicle, and thought process behind this model is:
Camper + Daily commuter + occasional equipment hauler (I'm a low budget cinematographer).
This model seems like 1 of a kind for the boxes I'm trying to tick... Short wheel base is a must for driving / parking in Hollywood, Santa Monica and even on my street, would also make my wife more comfortable driving it. The 27mpg is huge and makes the decision more justifiable, I don't have the cash to buy a van that won't be my commuter, and driving a 15mpg vehicle on the daily here would be hard for me. The fact that it can be that short but still have the Super High Ceiling that I can stand upright in seems like would make us even more inclined to take it out every weekend. We camp a lot, and while the wheelbase is very similar, I still don't think one of those crammed, low clearance little "City" cargo vans, like the promaster city or the NV200 would really incline us to get out more than we already do. I think the ceiling height of this T1N would make a big difference for us.

 

[NelsonSprinter]

15 yr old T1N's do well with gearhead owners with bank, and assistance from here. A hundred things added to engine that can incapacitate it by default.
All repairs by MBenz are 4X what one expects as reasonable. Shy away IMHO . IT CAN LAST 1 MONTH TO 10 YRS

 

[johnholway]

15 yr old T1N's do well with gearhead owners with bank, and assistance from here. A hundred things added to engine that can incapacitate it by default.
All repairs by MBenz are 4X what one expects as reasonable. Shy away IMHO . IT CAN LAST 1 MONTH TO 10 YRS

Shucks... thanks for the real talk. I've been scouring the forums for this exact specific van for a while and finally negotiated one for a good deal... Practically it has everything my wife and I are looking for... but now starting to wonder if I'm making a financially foolish decision...

 

[ECU]

I'm nearing 400,000 this week. I purchase 12 years ago at 297,000m. In the time, I've replaced just about everything that hangs off the engine. Alternator, water pump, radiator, turbo, AC compressor, Fuel pump, harmonic balancer.
The power steering pump was replaced, found part of an old belt wrapped around the hub.
I've even had the heater assembly replaced (not the heater core). Two windshields, One when I purchased and one last year. I've had two brake jobs, one at purchase.
I've replaced the slider rollers, the plastic bits around the back doors and a window crank handle.
I've put in new headlights after cleaning the old ones three times. I've also replaced my tail light lenses to some nice euro types. I've put LED bulbs everywhere, and taken them out of the turn signals to go back to normal.
I've replaced my front grill a couple of times, the first Mercedes conversion didn't get mounted right and cracked.
I've replaced my shocks, struts, and ball joints.

Compared to my last truck, Dodge 4x4 diesel pickup. At 100,000 miles there was no oil pressure. I had new brakes every year. The front axle was rebuilt. The transmission was rebuilt. Wheel bearings seems to go out with the tires. Power steering and brake problems.

Sure there were some expensive things. The High Pressure fuel pump cost more than the turbo and AC. A lot of parts are about the same price as if it were some other brand. The most expensive was the Harmonic Balancer. I had the work done by a dealership while on a road trip far from home.

I was thinking the other day that it seems that my van is finally broken in.

 

[johnholway]

I'm nearing 400,000 this week. I purchase 12 years ago at 297,000m. In the time, I've replaced just about everything that hangs off the engine. Alternator, water pump, radiator, turbo, AC compressor, Fuel pump, harmonic balancer.
The power steering pump was replaced, found part of an old belt wrapped around the hub.
I've even had the heater assembly replaced (not the heater core). Two windshields, One when I purchased and one last year. I've had two brake jobs, one at purchase.
I've replaced the slider rollers, the plastic bits around the back doors and a window crank handle.
I've put in new headlights after cleaning the old ones three times. I've also replaced my tail light lenses to some nice euro types. I've put LED bulbs everywhere, and taken them out of the turn signals to go back to normal.
I've replaced my front grill a couple of times, the first Mercedes conversion didn't get mounted right and cracked.
I've replaced my shocks, struts, and ball joints.

Compared to my last truck, Dodge 4x4 diesel pickup. At 100,000 miles there was no oil pressure. I had new brakes every year. The front axle was rebuilt. The transmission was rebuilt. Wheel bearings seems to go out with the tires. Power steering and brake problems.

Sure there were some expensive things. The High Pressure fuel pump cost more than the turbo and AC. A lot of parts are about the same price as if it were some other brand. The most expensive was the Harmonic Balancer. I had the work done by a dealership while on a road trip far from home.

I was thinking the other day that it seems that my van is finally broken in.

Oh this is great to know. Very encouraging hearing you haven't had to replace your transmission or any major engine parts over the last 12 years. I do believe / hope that owning something as expensive as this would finally make me man up and learn to replace some of the easier stuff on my own. I just get worried about something like a gasket blowing or a transmission failing within a year of purchase.

 

[220629]

Looking at buying a 2005 T1N 118 SHC with 160K miles on it...

That is a bit of a unicorn and sought after model.

... I just get worried about something like a gasket blowing or a transmission failing within a year of purchase.

It's a legitimate concern. The 2006 that I bought used had similar miles. It was in very good general condition. It still took much DIY labor and quite a bit of money in parts to get it up to what I felt would be a good reliable truck. The investment is working so far for me, but I do most all of my own work.

Have fun.

vic

 

[johnholway]

That is a bit of a unicorn and sought after model.


It's a legitimate concern. The 2006 that I bought used had similar miles. It was in very good general condition. It still took much DIY labor and quite a bit of money in parts to get it up to what I felt would be a good reliable truck. The investment is working so far for me, but I do most all of my own work.

Have fun.

vic

Thanks, yeah I know the unicorn aspect makes me think it may hold value if worse comes to worse... yeah I'm useless with a desire to learn...

 

[SprinterSnale]

Purchased an 05 T1 in '13 with 120k miles. Now at 206k the things repaired and replaced are all within scheduled maintenance. Water pump, pulleys, viscous fan, thermostat, brake pads,, shocks, turbo resonator, transmission conductor plate and connector, cam and crank sensors, glow plugs and module, fuse box on steering column, fluids, filters, belts, tires and the T21 recall. I've taken it to mechanics 5 times, mostly for code reading and clearing SRS (before cheap code readers were available-a must) and glow plugs.
If the prospective rig never served as a commercially driven delivery van with multiple drivers, that is a plus. But it is still a crap shoot to a degree. Professional inspection is a must.
Hopefully you can find some past history of owners, driving use and habits. For instance highway mileage is better than daily short trips. With age and location, rust and wire chaffing are possible point of contentions but surmountable. I'm cup half full on the '05 and hope to own for another decade.

 

[ECU]

Hold value? I paid $13,000 in 2008. What would you pay for a non-rusted, good running 400k-m today?

 

[mean_in_green]

They're terrible - mine only managed to get this far before I sold it:

 

[Kajtek1]

IMHO buying Mercedes Benz and especially MB diesel without warranty is not for everybody.
When those vehicles can last for 100 years, finding knowledgeable repair shop for them proves to be sometimes impossible.
I am die-hard DIY and purchased my newer Sprinter with 250k miles. The price was good, but I understood the risk.
So 15k miles later HP fuel pump went, taking the injectors with it and making $5300 repair.
When I am not happy with the outcome, I consider that at the time of purchase.
So are you good with the Idea?

 

[trc.rhubarb]

So 15k miles later HP fuel pump went, taking the injectors with it and making $5300 repair.

Let's be fair... that's possible but not very likely.

@johnholway
To me, the biggest obstacle you will have to overcome is either finding a truly good shop that knows sprinters or learning to do it yourself.
Avoid cheap parts off ebay and amazon for the most part and try to stick to genuine oem or at least oe products. especially sensors.

The vans are very easy to work on... a fact I was reminded of the other day when i saw a guy working on a duramax in an older chevy van... through the doghouse

You'll need, at the least, a set of metric hand tools, torx & e-torx and at least a 3/8 if not 1/2 and 1/4 torque wrenches. Other tools, you can pick up as you need them and if you don't use them too roughly, harbor freight can be your friend... .at least until you reach a point that you want "better" tools.

Lots of reading to do if you don't have any mechanical skills today but the instructions are thorough. If you are unsure, ask... mistakes can be expensive.

At 160k miles, you can start to expect to replace most rubber hoses, the belt, suspension, fuel filter, most of the cooling system (including water pump) and injectors, a handful of sensors, and likely a few other items within the next 20-40k miles.

Nearly all of that is very DIY friendly and not too expensive. Pay a shop to do an oil change and it will hurt. Do it yourself and you'll wonder why you would pay someone. Don't fall too hard into the talk here on mercedes approved fluids. Find ones that meet the spec... they don't all pay for approval. Approval is a warranty related term and doesn't really matter that much now as long as you're in the same spec. You will save a ton on fluids this way... often well over 50% right there.

You didn't say what you were spending, but if the body isn't rusted and it runs, I imagine you can get your money back out (less what you spend repairing) if it's not for you. The 140's still regularly go for $10-15k out here and I'd imagine the 118 would add several thousand to that... i've never seen one for sale locally.

After fixing my van that was a mess when i bought it, I'd say it's costing me about $1000/12,000 miles i drive it, not including fuel.
This is, in my world, because i am at 222,000 miles and that time between 200 and 220 was expensive.

Good luck and enjoy,

On a side note, there is nothing inherently masculine about fixing your vehicle. It neither makes you more or less of a man to be able to do so. It does make you cleaner though if you let someone else do it. Don't stress not knowing how to do this stuff and for sure, don't be embarrassed to ask. Nobody here will give you crap for asking how... or showing some spectacular failures... we all make them from time to time.

 

[tinman]

Lots of good perspectives here. You didn't give a "mission statement", i.e. how you hope to use the vehicle. Daily driver, commercial use, camper conversion? That can influence its suitability, as for instance the impact of a bit of down time while you educate yourself and source parts for a DIY repair. I have a long history of fearlessly (perhaps irrationally) charging into unknown territory on vehicle repairs. Overall, a few screw-ups notwithstanding, the approach has served me well and I haven't killed anybody. The environment for a guy like me has improved immeasurably over the years. From dog-eared and greasy Chilton and Haynes manuals to quick internet searches, on board diagnostics, engines without carburettors, disc brakes, etc. etc. While I don't make huge demands of my Sprinter, other than long trips heavily loaded (as a camper) I consider it the best vehicle of its type I've ever owned, and the knowledge base and helpful individuals on this forum are a big part of that. There is risk in buying any old vehicle and it would be foolish to ignore that, but if it passes muster with your mechanic and you are willing and capable to learn it's probably worth a go.

 

[billintomahawk]

Check out the forums for other vans capable of being camperized.
We are talking relatively shallow pools.

T!N?
You are either in the cult or out.
You can by a Dodge Promaster diesel with a Fiat engine assembled in Mexico. I wouldn't.
(The transmission is used in the Marz rover.)

If you think this is about money you are in the wrong place. Owning a T1N will define you.
You either get the aesthetic or?

T1N's will be a viable alternative as long as there is diesel fuel and tires.
If you are worried about being wrong check out the price of a 1963 split window Volkswagen van in good running condition.

Now reframe the question.

Have you ever been on the other side of the world 50 miles from the Chinese border in the desert?
You think for a second that you are special and then up walks a German.

There is a Heineken brewery in Ulan Batar.

MCS Tiger Brewery (APU - Heineken Asia Pacific), Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia | RateBeer

MCS Tiger Brewery (APU - Heineken Asia Pacific) on RateBeer.com. Beers, ratings, reviews, location, distribution and more.

www.ratebeer.com

This might put you in the mood.

The Little Bread Loaf That Could - Expedition Portal

A modern Bukhanka, making easy work of a mountain pass in Georgia. Editor’s note: This article was originally published in Overland Journal’s Gear 2021 Issue. Bold but brutal, the UAZ-452 is a true one-of-a-kind experience— a perplexing mix of oddity and simplicity that has stood in open...

expeditionportal.com

Good shit lasts because it is more than the sum of its parts.

bill in tomahawk

 

[johnholway]

Let's be fair... that's possible but not very likely.

@johnholway
To me, the biggest obstacle you will have to overcome is either finding a truly good shop that knows sprinters or learning to do it yourself.
Avoid cheap parts off ebay and amazon for the most part and try to stick to genuine oem or at least oe products. especially sensors.

The vans are very easy to work on... a fact I was reminded of the other day when i saw a guy working on a duramax in an older chevy van... through the doghouse

You'll need, at the least, a set of metric hand tools, torx & e-torx and at least a 3/8 if not 1/2 and 1/4 torque wrenches. Other tools, you can pick up as you need them and if you don't use them too roughly, harbor freight can be your friend... .at least until you reach a point that you want "better" tools.

Lots of reading to do if you don't have any mechanical skills today but the instructions are thorough. If you are unsure, ask... mistakes can be expensive.

At 160k miles, you can start to expect to replace most rubber hoses, the belt, suspension, fuel filter, most of the cooling system (including water pump) and injectors, a handful of sensors, and likely a few other items within the next 20-40k miles.

Nearly all of that is very DIY friendly and not too expensive. Pay a shop to do an oil change and it will hurt. Do it yourself and you'll wonder why you would pay someone. Don't fall too hard into the talk here on mercedes approved fluids. Find ones that meet the spec... they don't all pay for approval. Approval is a warranty related term and doesn't really matter that much now as long as you're in the same spec. You will save a ton on fluids this way... often well over 50% right there.

You didn't say what you were spending, but if the body isn't rusted and it runs, I imagine you can get your money back out (less what you spend repairing) if it's not for you. The 140's still regularly go for $10-15k out here and I'd imagine the 118 would add several thousand to that... i've never seen one for sale locally.

After fixing my van that was a mess when i bought it, I'd say it's costing me about $1000/12,000 miles i drive it, not including fuel.
This is, in my world, because i am at 222,000 miles and that time between 200 and 220 was expensive.

Good luck and enjoy,

On a side note, there is nothing inherently masculine about fixing your vehicle. It neither makes you more or less of a man to be able to do so. It does make you cleaner though if you let someone else do it. Don't stress not knowing how to do this stuff and for sure, don't be embarrassed to ask. Nobody here will give you crap for asking how... or showing some spectacular failures... we all make them from time to time.

My gosh this was so insightful on many levels, thank you so much - the what to expect in the next 20K miles, first tool purchases, fluid advice. You're right, I thought the manly comment might be a bit insensitive. The price was $16K... it was a fantastic deal. And somebody beat me to it by 1 hour this morning. Devastated. But am not in a rush and will continue shopping with everything you said in mind.
Also, I live in LA, and I've seen quite a few recommended mechanics on this forum near me, so if I can't figure something out I wouldn't be in too much trouble.

 

[johnholway]

Lots of good perspectives here. You didn't give a "mission statement", i.e. how you hope to use the vehicle. Daily driver, commercial use, camper conversion? That can influence its suitability, as for instance the impact of a bit of down time while you educate yourself and source parts for a DIY repair. I have a long history of fearlessly (perhaps irrationally) charging into unknown territory on vehicle repairs. Overall, a few screw-ups notwithstanding, the approach has served me well and I haven't killed anybody. The environment for a guy like me has improved immeasurably over the years. From dog-eared and greasy Chilton and Haynes manuals to quick internet searches, on board diagnostics, engines without carburettors, disc brakes, etc. etc. While I don't make huge demands of my Sprinter, other than long trips heavily loaded (as a camper) I consider it the best vehicle of its type I've ever owned, and the knowledge base and helpful individuals on this forum are a big part of that. There is risk in buying any old vehicle and it would be foolish to ignore that, but if it passes muster with your mechanic and you are willing and capable to learn it's probably worth a go.

Thank you very much, your perspective is great. I will update the original post to reflect my location and intent.

 

[johnholway]

Check out the forums for other vans capable of being camperized.
We are talking relatively shallow pools.

T!N?
You are either in the cult or out.
You can by a Dodge Promaster diesel with a Fiat engine assembled in Mexico. I wouldn't.
(The transmission is used in the Marz rover.)

If you think this is about money you are in the wrong place. Owning a T1N will define you.
You either get the aesthetic or?

T1N's will be a viable alternative as long as there is diesel fuel and tires.
If you are wrong check out the cost of a 1963 split window Volkswagen van in good running condition.

Now reframe the question.

Have you ever been on the other side of the world 50 miles from the Chinese border in the desert?
You think for a second that you are special and then up walks a German.

There is a Heineken brewery in Ulan Batar.

MCS Tiger Brewery (APU - Heineken Asia Pacific), Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia | RateBeer

MCS Tiger Brewery (APU - Heineken Asia Pacific) on RateBeer.com. Beers, ratings, reviews, location, distribution and more.

www.ratebeer.com

This might put you in the mood.

The Little Bread Loaf That Could - Expedition Portal

A modern Bukhanka, making easy work of a mountain pass in Georgia. Editor’s note: This article was originally published in Overland Journal’s Gear 2021 Issue. Bold but brutal, the UAZ-452 is a true one-of-a-kind experience— a perplexing mix of oddity and simplicity that has stood in open...

expeditionportal.com

Good shit lasts because it is more than the sum of its parts.

bill in tomahawk

Thank you thank you!

 

[Kajtek1]

Let's be fair... that's possible but not very likely.

I took the failed pump apart and it shows wear, which I would consider natural, before broken spring made fatal failure.
Sure other member made 500k on the same engine, without replacing HPFP, but my bus was used as shuttle in hot climates, so lot of stops and lot of idling with 2 AC on. Than Dennis says that pump failure blowing injectors in common phenomena.
Bottom line, for my 2nd Sprinter closing on 200k miles - I already ordered spare HPFP.
So when OP buys the van with 160k, miles, he better have some cash stashed for repairs.

 

[jcmadeintheshade@gmail.com]

The Sprinter Pit Stop in San Diego has a number of vans parked out on their short side street, T1N's and NCV's, all in different states of repair and restoration. Tim and company do it all and are fair minded. There are around fifteen to twenty used Sprinter vans available at any given time.

They use MB dealer parts exclusively for repairs. Give them a call and see if they have something that fits for you.

 

[ECU]

The HPFP is an easy fix if caught early. They die at about 350k miles. The bolts holding the two halves of the pump vibrate loose. To access those bolts you have to remove the pump.
Knowing that now, I would have removed the bolts one at a time, add locktite, and retighten them prior to 300k.