Interesting 4 x 4 rumors and speculations...

PictureMeFree

2019 170 ext 4x4
Hi everyone,

I am betting there are many of you who are also members of the various Sprinter Facebook groups, so you may have seen this already (hell, I may be quoting you, lol). I am quoting people without giving their names (since they were posting in private FB groups), but I thought others here would find the discussion interesting.

original post:
“Just read that the 4x4 is not in production anymore in Germany. Regular sprinter production is also on hold for at least 6 months! Will post a link as soo as I find out more


Response I found most interesting:
“The 4x4 Sprinter continues to be produced in Germany for the North American market until the model year 2021, currently they are still producing 4x4 Sprinters as 2020 model years in 2021, true 2021 will start in June 2021. The 6 cyl has a stop sale order in place, again due to emission testing.

Contrary to popular myth, the current system is in reality is a very advanced watered down version of the Oberaigner system, very expensive to manufacture.

Next system is a 4-Matic AWD system, costs are around a 1/3 to manufacture, mated to the 4 cyl turbo diesel.

So, yes, the current Sprinter 4x4 will become a bit of a cult vehicle like the VW Syncro.

We are Canada’s largest purchaser of 4x4 Sprinters for conversions, a MB upfitter in Canada and the USA, and specialize in 4x4 Sprinters in Europe, so the info above comes directly from a very credible source at Mercedes-Benz.

Hence the reason we stockpiled 4x4’s this year.”

Just made for some interesting Sunday reading. Cheers, all.

— Josh, in Boulder
 

sanomechanic

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

I am betting there are many of you who are also members of the various Sprinter Facebook groups, so you may have seen this already (hell, I may be quoting you, lol). I am quoting people without giving their names (since they were posting in private FB groups), but I thought others here would find the discussion interesting.

original post:
“Just read that the 4x4 is not in production anymore in Germany. Regular sprinter production is also on hold for at least 6 months! Will post a link as soo as I find out more


Response I found most interesting:
“The 4x4 Sprinter continues to be produced in Germany for the North American market until the model year 2021, currently they are still producing 4x4 Sprinters as 2020 model years in 2021, true 2021 will start in June 2021. The 6 cyl has a stop sale order in place, again due to emission testing.

Contrary to popular myth, the current system is in reality is a very advanced watered down version of the Oberaigner system, very expensive to manufacture.

Next system is a 4-Matic AWD system, costs are around a 1/3 to manufacture, mated to the 4 cyl turbo diesel.

So, yes, the current Sprinter 4x4 will become a bit of a cult vehicle like the VW Syncro.

We are Canada’s largest purchaser of 4x4 Sprinters for conversions, a MB upfitter in Canada and the USA, and specialize in 4x4 Sprinters in Europe, so the info above comes directly from a very credible source at Mercedes-Benz.

Hence the reason we stockpiled 4x4’s this year.”

Just made for some interesting Sunday reading. Cheers, all.

— Josh, in Boulder
My source. A MB Dealer has already begun placing their allocation orders for 2021 4x4 using the same exact build components scheduled for May production. The
4Matic System will most likely be offered in non US markets. At least for now.
 

carbon60

2022 4x4 3500XD 170 HR
This is really starting to concern me. I placed my order for a 170WB 3500XD DRW 4x4 cargo at the end of January and the build slot has been delayed twice, currently scheduled for June in Düsseldorf. I need to sit and sleep 4, and haven’t found any other options.
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
Sadly for you guys the US has never been the first to be offered anything, throughout the Sprinter’s life to date. On that basis it seems unlikely to change going forwards.

I note the V6 is being discontinued here, I would guess due to tightening emissions regulations and clean air zones, plus no new petrol or diesel cars or vans from 2030 now in the UK.
 
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Seacoaster

Active member
I’m curious if the 4matic to eventually be offered is as flawless as that in my 2010 R class? Or if it will be more reactionary like some of the other awd systems that run full rear power until they sense slip. I tend to not like the driveability of the reactionary systems.
 

carbon60

2022 4x4 3500XD 170 HR
I have a 80-series Land Cruiser with "plain" triple diffs and it handles better than a lot of the fancy systems, at speed on low-traction surfaces. Sad to see the modern approach actually making things worse!
 

carbon60

2022 4x4 3500XD 170 HR
"Very advanced" ?!?! It's the only 4wd/AWD vehicle I've owned in 20+ years that has required me to be at a stop before engaging 4wd...
I've only ever owned a single FWD car, my first one. After that, every single vehicle that I've owned has had three differentials. :D
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
I’m curious if the 4matic to eventually be offered is as flawless as that in my 2010 R class? Or if it will be more reactionary like some of the other awd systems that run full rear power until they sense slip. I tend to not like the driveability of the reactionary systems.
It will be reactionary. It’s like the Haldex systems in VW AWD cars and even some Audi’s. They aren’t as good as the Torsen-based systems.

I’m glad to have the old system if this rumor is true.
 

RVBarry

2023 AWD 170 DIY CamperVan
It will be reactionary. It’s like the Haldex systems in VW AWD cars and even some Audi’s. They aren’t as good as the Torsen-based systems.

I’m glad to have the old system if this rumor is true.
Hi, Isn't the old system reactionary as well?
With 3 open diffs, only one wheel will spin in loose traction, until the electronic traction control kicks in and brakes.

If the wet clutch locks faster, seems that could be better.
And if it's actually locking front to rear, then we have 2WD instead of 1WD.

Right?
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
It’s a transfer case with a 35/65 power split, which loosely matches the weight proportions front to rear for most vans. Across the axle is reactionary, but I’ve never once seen the traction control light come in winter conditions. I feel like there is one notorious poster who keeps claiming the transfer case is open and sends power to the axle with the least traction. That’s incorrect.
 

RVBarry

2023 AWD 170 DIY CamperVan
I've seen multiple videos showing no van movement and only one wheel spinning at a time.

I suppose if one wheel has no traction, the the torque is near zero, so the other side of the T-case won't get any useful torque, but it seems misleading to claim a torque split when it acts like an open T-case diff.

Please watch this, starting at 02:09:

Yes, they didn't have snow tires or chains on, but that doesn't explain the 1WD.
 

65C02

404
Actually pretty impressive if you watch the series - donuts and all - got a ticket once doing just that.....
mine has been good to me in the snow and beach sand - been out there using and enjoying my ride.
Most changes these days are going to be emissions driven - happy I got the V6 and 4lo
 

RVBarry

2023 AWD 170 DIY CamperVan
Is the wet clutch TC going to lock, or will it work like a Torsen and transfer 100% of the torque to the front, if the rear is slipping?
Thanks
 

VanGoSki

Well-known member
I've seen multiple videos showing no van movement and only one wheel spinning at a time.

I suppose if one wheel has no traction, the the torque is near zero, so the other side of the T-case won't get any useful torque, but it seems misleading to claim a torque split when it acts like an open T-case diff.

Please watch this, starting at 02:09:

Yes, they didn't have snow tires or chains on, but that doesn't explain the 1WD.
Open/closed, who gives a fig? The van did exactly what it was supposed to do, transfer the power to the front wheels when it needed it, and the van pulled away. I thought it was a good demonstration of what the van is supposed to do. If that were a 2WD Sprinter, he would have been stuck. We know it's not a traditional 4WD system, but it works. That's all that matters.
 

RVBarry

2023 AWD 170 DIY CamperVan
The wheel spins and sliding towards the edge of the road were rather disconcerting.

Anyways, will the new system be better or worse, in terms of minimum traction?
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
I've seen multiple videos showing no van movement and only one wheel spinning at a time.

I suppose if one wheel has no traction, the the torque is near zero, so the other side of the T-case won't get any useful torque, but it seems misleading to claim a torque split when it acts like an open T-case diff.

Please watch this, starting at 02:09:

Yes, they didn't have snow tires or chains on, but that doesn't explain the 1WD.

I've seen multiple videos showing no van movement and only one wheel spinning at a time.

I suppose if one wheel has no traction, the the torque is near zero, so the other side of the T-case won't get any useful torque, but it seems misleading to claim a torque split when it acts like an open T-case diff.

Please watch this, starting at 02:09:

Yes, they didn't have snow tires or chains on, but that doesn't explain the 1WD.
Thats not 1WD, that’s both axles spinning and the ABS trying to find traction across the axle. This is where the t-case in low range allows a slower tire spin so the ABS system can more readily move power. If you are gassing in and out, it’s hard for ABS to know where to send the power. This system would work exactly the same on the new van.

The new system doesn’t lock power at a 50/50 split. It’s going to do the same thing you see here across the axle, but also front/back. This works ok on street cars where the traction between dry pavement and wet snow is predictable (assumes all 4 tires on the ground at all times), but makes it less predictable when off-road and you have a lifted tire or really uneven traction.

Our Cayenne was a similar torque split while our Touareg was a 50/50 split. I could not tell a difference. We took our Cayenne over Georgia Pass on street tires.

There are pros and cons to every setup. Pro for this new setup is no button to push. Con is that it will be less capable off-road. I’m all for better systems, but I sh!t you not that I have never had traction control come on while on established roads in 4x4, and we spend our winters running up and down mountain roads out west chasing powder. I have nothing to gain in that department, but something to lose on the summer when off-road. YMMV.
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
The wheel spins and sliding towards the edge of the road were rather disconcerting.

Anyways, will the new system be better or worse, in terms of minimum traction?
It will be the same. Traction front to rear is not a problem on the Sprinter. Modulating traction side to side is. That’s what you are seeing here.
Watch any subby off-road. They are anything but graceful and they have a viscous clutch moving power front to back.
 

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