Winter camping

khowe765

New member
Hi all!

I have a winter camping-related question! So, we use a MaxxAir fan for ventilation and do not have a heat source, ie no propane or diesel heater. We do a lot of winter camping and I haven't found the right formula for 1) remaining warm 2) reducing condensation. The van is fully insulated with HaveLock wool and I have insulated window covers and an insulated fan cover. We noticed that on really cold nights (25F or lower), if we ran the fan on low or closed it altogether, we would get really cold as the fan was sucking out all of the heat, but we wouldn't have condensation on the windows in the morning. We tried the insulated fan cover so cold air wouldn't seep in from the fan opening, but that only marginally helped and it produced condensation on the windows.

Any suggestions from your own experience? On frigid nights, do I run the fan on low or cover it with insulated cover?
 

Csansom001

2003 High Top 158in
Hey hey,

A combo that works for me is to just open the maxxAir fan vent which I only recently realized you could do lol. Manually open if you have the controller version. I barely crack it if it’s really cold but I don’t get condensation in the morning. Just to clarify, the van is not on, just cracked, so it’s not actively sucking air out.

Additionally, my mom got me these fuzzy sheets for Christmas and they have been an absolute game changer when compared to normal cotton/linen sheets. That plus a weighted blanket is solid.

All this to say, I have an Espar heater set up that works but I’m paranoid to run through the night lmao. So we go to bed warm and wake up cold.

Hi all!

I have a winter camping-related question! So, we use a MaxxAir fan for ventilation and do not have a heat source, ie no propane or diesel heater. We do a lot of winter camping and I haven't found the right formula for 1) remaining warm 2) reducing condensation. The van is fully insulated with HaveLock wool and I have insulated window covers and an insulated fan cover. We noticed that on really cold nights (25F or lower), if we ran the fan on low or closed it altogether, we would get really cold as the fan was sucking out all of the heat, but we wouldn't have condensation on the windows in the morning. We tried the insulated fan cover so cold air wouldn't seep in from the fan opening, but that only marginally helped and it produced condensation on the windows.

Any suggestions from your own experience? On frigid nights, do I run the fan on low or cover it with insulated cover?
 

kcshoots

VanTripping.com
I have found out in my last Sprinter that window covers, although insulated, do nothing for all of the exposed metal chassis around the windows and door frames, which are a direct thermal transfer to the outside metal skin. Taking a thermal scan of the interior when outside temps are cold reveals just how much these exposed metal frames connected to the exterior skin differ from other interior temps. A simple IR scanner/forehead thermometer will reveal this. Therefore I used window curtains that cover the exposed metal framework and also reduced the exposed metal frame work with my interior paneling. You may want to try using window curtains, or hang blankets over the rear doors from ceiling to at least below the windows, and same for any side windows, and this should help reduce condensation and cold transfer. The only other solution to better insulation and not breathing is to install interior heating. I have no condensation in my van when camping in weather down to 14 degrees without and without interior heating on (my van is very well air sealed and leave the roof fan closed and sealed thru winter), so I think the curtains are the trick over window shades/covers.
 

khowe765

New member
Hi all,

Thanks for all of the suggestions! Csansom001, I forgot to mention that I live/camp primarily in the SE, so even in the winter here, there is often 80-90% humidity, making a 30F temp feel like 15! That cold, moist air always seems to seep it's way into my van from the fan entry even if it's off and closed. I will try your suggestion of manually cracking it (barely) to see if that helps!

Most of my interior walls are carpeted with insulation within the walls, which I believe has made a huge impact on the cold transfer. On the coldest of nights, the carpeted walls are not even cold to the touch at all! Kcshoots, I noticed the same thing you did, that any exposed interior metal seems to radiate cold air when it's in sub-freezing temps. I'll look into curtains and/or carpeting more of the interior metal walls. As for heating, I've considered a 12v diesel heater (webasto), but not ready to pull the trigger. Hoping to keep my set-up as minimal as possible, but being warm with kiddos may change my mind.

Thanks again!
 

elemental

Wherever you go, there you are.
Most of my interior walls are carpeted with insulation within the walls, which I believe has made a huge impact on the cold transfer. On the coldest of nights, the carpeted walls are not even cold to the touch at all! Kcshoots, I noticed the same thing you did, that any exposed interior metal seems to radiate cold air when it's in sub-freezing temps. I'll look into curtains and/or carpeting more of the interior metal walls. As for heating, I've considered a 12v diesel heater (webasto), but not ready to pull the trigger. Hoping to keep my set-up as minimal as possible, but being warm with kiddos may change my mind.
If you install a diesel-fueled air heater you will be amazed at what a difference it will make in terms of warmth without consuming much at all in the way of fuel. I'm in the coastal Pacific northwest where we have our share of damp cold. I have the Eberspächer D2 Airtronic installed under the front passenger seat and it is marvelous. Proper insulation in the walls and window coverings help conserve heat, but having the ability to generate heat to cover what is still lost is a key to comfort, especially if you need to crack the vent for moisture control. Having said that, the installation works best if you have an auxiliary battery system so as to not risk drawing the starter battery down too low. Although the heater gets most of its energy from the diesel fuel, it does need electric current to ignite the fuel and to power the fan that forces the air through the system.
 

khowe765

New member
If you install a diesel-fueled air heater you will be amazed at what a difference it will make in terms of warmth without consuming much at all in the way of fuel. I'm in the coastal Pacific northwest where we have our share of damp cold. I have the Eberspächer D2 Airtronic installed under the front passenger seat and it is marvelous. Proper insulation in the walls and window coverings help conserve heat, but having the ability to generate heat to cover what is still lost is a key to comfort, especially if you need to crack the vent for moisture control. Having said that, the installation works best if you have an auxiliary battery system so as to not risk drawing the starter battery down too low. Although the heater gets most of its energy from the diesel fuel, it does need electric current to ignite the fuel and to power the fan that forces the air through the system.
Thanks for the suggestion! I think you're absolutely right about a heater being the solution that I'm ultimately looking for to generate that heat to cover what is lost, ie a few sleeping bodies aren't going to create enough heat when it's sub-freezing temps outside. I'm currently using a Jackery 500 for lights/fan/phones, which should be enough to cover energy use for the D2 airtronic, so long as it doesn't exceed 10amp on startup and shutdown, which it doesn't seem like it would from the specs on the website. Where do you keep the diesel? Is it also stored underneath the passenger seat?
 

borabora

Well-known member
I find sleeping fairly comfortably down to 25 is not that hard with a warm sleeping bag, a beanie and possibly a neck gaiter. The problem is that you don't ever want to get up because getting out of that warm sleeping bag at 25 is painful.
You can't really keep the van warm without a heater and you shouldn't idle the engine in the morning to get the space warm. If you want to do this painlessly then get a diesel heater. Once you have it you'll never want to give it up again.
 

khowe765

New member
I find sleeping fairly comfortably down to 25 is not that hard with a warm sleeping bag, a beanie and possibly a neck gaiter. The problem is that you don't ever want to get up because getting out of that warm sleeping bag at 25 is painful.
You can't really keep the van warm without a heater and you shouldn't idle the engine in the morning to get the space warm. If you want to do this painlessly then get a diesel heater. Once you have it you'll never want to give it up again.
Yes, getting out of the sleeping bag is the problem indeed! I also sleep pretty comfortably with my down sleeping bag, but the idea of spending the night in my fully insulated van only to still be really cold was a disappointing realization to me. Granted, it's still warmer and more comfortable than a tent, but on really cold nights, it doesn't always feel like it. Sounds like if I'm aiming for relative comfort in freezing temps, I need to bite the bullet and install a diesel heater.
 

Roamers

2020 4X4 170 Crew
Elimination of condensation is way important. If you will not be heating, it will always suck to get up. Although I will never do this again, a fool proof method of staying warm, learned during Boy Scout Red Flannel (before the rules changed recently) and I have been comfortable to -15 F:

Change into all dry clothes (thermal underwater and socks), dry stocking cap. Bring Clean dry clothes for the morning into the sleeping bag with you. Once covered with sufficient sleeping bag and blankets, put a wool blanket over your face for the night (it breathes and keeps insulating even when damp. Get dressed it fresh warm new clothes before getting uncovered.

We used to periodically look for telltale plume of mouth exhaust coming from the wool blankets to make sure everyone was still alive.
 

elemental

Wherever you go, there you are.
I'm currently using a Jackery 500 for lights/fan/phones, which should be enough to cover energy use for the D2 airtronic, so long as it doesn't exceed 10amp on startup and shutdown, which it doesn't seem like it would from the specs on the website. Where do you keep the diesel? Is it also stored underneath the passenger seat?
I keep the diesel fuel in the Sprinter's fuel tank. Recent model years all come with the KL1 fuel tap option; earlier years some did/some didn't. If you have option KL1 it is relatively easy to plumb in the line from the Sprinter tank to the fuel pump that comes with the diesel-fueled heater. If you don't have option KL1 I've read it isn't *too* hard to add a tap to the tank, but you have to drop the tank to do it. Under no circumstances do you want to try to tap into the Sprinter's main fuel system.

The KL1 option only draws fuel down to about 1/4 tank to avoid running it dry and not being able to run the engine, so you need to make sure you don't get to your campsite with 1/4 tank or less.

You might be on the edge if you have a 10 amp limit on the current draw for the D2 Airtronic from your auxiliary power supply. I haven't measured it, but there is a pretty big initial draw that then tapers off to the 34 watt level in the manual for operation at max power. Perhaps someone else can chime in who has measured the initial power surge?
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I find sleeping fairly comfortably down to 25 is not that hard with a warm sleeping bag, a beanie and possibly a neck gaiter. The problem is that you don't ever want to get up because getting out of that warm sleeping bag at 25 is painful.
You can't really keep the van warm without a heater and you shouldn't idle the engine in the morning to get the space warm. If you want to do this painlessly then get a diesel heater. Once you have it you'll never want to give it up again.
No problem. A rear seat heating pad under a sleeping bag keeps the body warm. The issue is your head gets cold so a balaclava solves that problem. Transit has a remote start option which I bought so I can warm the van in the morning before getting out of bed. Set the dash controls for max. heat and set the vehicle powered inverter to power the 750 watt electric heater in back of the van and wait 20 minutes. All works because I have a gas engine that can be idled.
 

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