VS30: Watch out for your diff if getting tyres changed

downunder

Active member
Also don't let a tyre change place lift your Sprinter on the sills.
This must commonly happen with some cars?
A tyre dealer did this to mine, both front doors caught on the bend in the sills, quoted repair was approx $10K but ended up at about $5k.
Their insurance co paid; all for a $35 puncture repair...
 

220629

Well-known member
Also don't let a tyre change place lift your Sprinter on the sills.
This must commonly happen with some cars?
A tyre dealer did this to mine, both front doors caught on the bend in the sills, quoted repair was approx $10K but ended up at about $5k.
Their insurance co paid; all for a $35 puncture repair...
I ass-u-me that sills are the formed sheet metal body pieces (lowest sides of the body) which are called rocker panels in the US/Canada.

The lifts designed for Mercedes Sprinters contact the unibody frame rails and other places using specific fixtures (some with locating pins/dowels to specific holes in the frame). Our general type lifts in the USA can be aligned to contact the unibody frame rails, but probably won't have the custom fixtures or locating pins.

This video is Sprinter specific, but not VS30 specific.




Off topic.

A Sprinter tire change video using the included OEM tire change jack. It should apply generally to all Sprinters.


vic

Added:
This guy jacks against the axle tube for a rear tire change with no apparent damage. To make it worse he didn't even position the jack out near the wheel that he was lifting. (2:00 mark) I would strongly recommend against jacking against the axle tube close to the differential. That is especially true with an unpadded floor jack cup that point loads the axle tube. MB specifically recommends against jacking on the axle tubes.

 

andyje

Member
It's wild that so many of these things seem obvious and common sense, and has to make you wonder what's wrong with people. I'd like to have thought natural selection would address this over the generations, but seemingly not.
 
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elemental

Wherever you go, there you are.
Common sense isn't so common. Basic mechanical knowledge isn't an emphasis of skills/experience being passed down in many families, especially those that have the financial resources to buy late model vehicles and have them worked on in shops. I'm guilty of this with my own kids. I grew up a lot less well off than I am now, and the things that I had to do to my junker cars - small repairs, oil changes, tire changes, tuneups, etc. - just aren't necessary or aren't possible/desirable (HOA with prohibitions on work on cars in driveways) with the vehicles I currently own. For better or worse, my focus on home-based learn-by-doing has been geared towards my own professional livelihood skills (passing on my trade) and only skimmed what used to be basic life skills (keeping a car on the road) that I am now mostly free of doing. We have stressed learning basic physics for the real world - mechanical advantage through leverage and gearing, basic electrical circuits, basic optics but with limited opportunities to demonstrate in practical contexts.

I had my kids change tires (summer to winter) on one of our cars, take the cars they were driving in high school in for oil changes, and have gone over the theory of operation of internal combustion engines and vehicle drivetrains with them. I haven't ever had to change a flat in their lifetimes, and the one major mechanical service item I needed done - replace a starter on my 4Runner - I had a shop due because I was too busy with work and life. I had to troubleshoot/repair an instrumentation failure in our Dodge Caravan that required removing the dash and re-soldering failed ground connections, but that was when they were younger and they got only a limited experience from that.

Compounding the lack of direct, repeated exposure to the basics is the fact that many people have a bizarre aversion to reading manuals (demonstrated from time to time on this forum). The result is that you get people doing things that seem to make sense to them but are less than best practice for vehicle repair and maintenance.
 

andyje

Member
Elemental... what a great post. Understanding basic physics is a hugely valuable asset. Avoiding injury lifting something that’s awkward or heavy, not falling off your bike, cooking with heavy pans, not dropping a carelessly jacked sprinter on your face.... All useful life skills.
 
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220629

Well-known member
...

Compounding the lack of direct, repeated exposure to the basics is the fact that many people have a bizarre aversion to reading manuals (demonstrated from time to time on this forum). The result is that you get people doing things that seem to make sense to them but are less than best practice for vehicle repair and maintenance.
When all else fails... read the manual. :professor:

:cheers: vic
 

downunder

Active member
Yes you are correct re rocker panels Vic,
Part of the reason for the $10K repair quote was that MB parts didn't sell the rocker guard (sill) as a single component. The good panel beater said that MB would only sell the whole inner/outer door frame area, and that he would have to cut out the area that he required. Each side by memory was about $2K in parts. His quote went to about 3 A4 pages labour and materials. He also had a picture of the parts breakdown that he showed me.
I was sort of distressed about having my van cut way way open unnecessarily so i suggested that he just pull out the bends with pullers from floor anchors, bog up what was necessary and paint it, especially as it was not a highly visible area.
That's what they ended up doing.
Another reason that the quote went high is because the doors are a 3 man lift when you consider OH@S requirements for employees. 1 man to undo door fixings, 2 men to hold weight of door etc. So more labour intensive.
I put yellow/black hazard tape on the 4 lift points to show future tyre places the only places to lift but they peeled off.
Now i think i should paint the curved lift points orange or similar.
 

Chaski

Well-known member
I do find it odd that the designated lift points look like tie down points for transport. To the untrained eye I can't say that a downward facing open loop looks like the correct place to lift any vehicle. I know reading the manual is king, but in my opinion MB could not have come up with a less intuitive lifting point. I'll be painting the ones on my van neon colors and gluing old action figures to the sides of them just to make sure they catch the eye of whomever may be lifting the lifting the vehicle for any reason. Probably stencil some giant "LIFT HERE" with arrows directed at the upside down lifting loops.

Anyone make a u-shaped cradle adapter for a conventional floor jack? That is something I wouldn't mind carrying around with me. A tire shop in the middle of nowhere would probably look at me cross-eyed if I asked them to lift the van using the MB bottle jack. If no one makes one I'll probably make one up. I know you could probably get away with a soft pad, but the factory jack does not apply any force to the outer edges of the lifting loop things.

Lastly, I am no expert, but if I had to guess 98%+ of straight axle vehicles can be lifted by placing a jack underneath the axle. I can see why damage like this is common on the vans, for me I plan on making / buying some sort of bash plate or thick cover. I don't want to drag the center casting of the rear axle on a trail and cause the cover to leak, nor do I want it to leak if someone uses conventional straight axle lifting techniques. There needs to be oil in the axle for a reason, and I'd like to make it easier for that oil to stay in there.

Gale Banks has been designing / testing some very cool differential covers for larger AAM / Dana Spicer axles. Wonder if Banks would consider making one for the sprinter.
 

220629

Well-known member
...

Anyone make a u-shaped cradle adapter for a conventional floor jack? That is something I wouldn't mind carrying around with me. A tire shop in the middle of nowhere would probably look at me cross-eyed if I asked them to lift the van using the MB bottle jack. If no one makes one I'll probably make one up. I know you could probably get away with a soft pad, but the factory jack does not apply any force to the outer edges of the lifting loop things.

...
One of the problems with a custom shape saddle is the height above ground of the tire change lift points. The OEM tire change jack addresses the problem with a two stage ram design. My observation is that any fixture adapter for using a floor jack with the OEM tire change lift points will need to so long that it will be unstable. It might be possible to remove the floor jack cup to replace that piece with a custom socket type adapter. See the SUV and other floor jack links below.

My opinion.

Basically an adapter becomes more trouble than it is worth.

The OEM tire change jack points should be considered just that... for use with the provided two stage bottle jack. There is a combo jack and jack stand unit that some have used. I believe it needs to be placed on some 4x4's or other cribbing for height. I have no experience with the units.


An SUV type jack would be a possibility. 2.5 tons would be enough for even RV tire changes.




Rather than obsessing over asking the shops to use the basically unusable tire change lift points, I would find out where the dealership hoist/lifts contact the unibody frame rails and mark those with bright colored paint. The problem with a floor jack using those points can still be the height off the ground, but the flat frame surface can be contacted using a 4x4 or similar block.

There are official hoisting lift point diagrams for the T1N and NCV3 Sprinters. There must be similar diagrams for the VS30 models.

:2cents: vic
 
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Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
Coincidently the same discussion happen on Truck Camper forum, who use pickup for carrying campers.
When truck axles are having strong tubes who would lift ca 3500 lb of empty truck rear at any point, the situation changes drastically when you have 5000 lb camper with all the weight on rear axle.
Similarly Sprinter's empty rear is probably less than 3000 lb.
Add 3000 lb of RV furniture, water and batteries to it and you have quite different picture.
I actually pulled my 2015 jack to see it and with double cylinder and U-shaped end, I think it is excelent item, who will beat bottle jacks available in US hands down.
Would I stick it midway under differential pipe? NO WAY!
 

blutow

Well-known member
Common sense isn't so common. Basic mechanical knowledge isn't an emphasis of skills/experience being passed down in many families, especially those that have the financial resources to buy late model vehicles and have them worked on in shops. I'm guilty of this with my own kids. I grew up a lot less well off than I am now, and the things that I had to do to my junker cars - small repairs, oil changes, tire changes, tuneups, etc. - just aren't necessary or aren't possible/desirable (HOA with prohibitions on work on cars in driveways) with the vehicles I currently own. For better or worse, my focus on home-based learn-by-doing has been geared towards my own professional livelihood skills (passing on my trade) and only skimmed what used to be basic life skills (keeping a car on the road) that I am now mostly free of doing. We have stressed learning basic physics for the real world - mechanical advantage through leverage and gearing, basic electrical circuits, basic optics but with limited opportunities to demonstrate in practical contexts.

I had my kids change tires (summer to winter) on one of our cars, take the cars they were driving in high school in for oil changes, and have gone over the theory of operation of internal combustion engines and vehicle drivetrains with them. I haven't ever had to change a flat in their lifetimes, and the one major mechanical service item I needed done - replace a starter on my 4Runner - I had a shop due because I was too busy with work and life. I had to troubleshoot/repair an instrumentation failure in our Dodge Caravan that required removing the dash and re-soldering failed ground connections, but that was when they were younger and they got only a limited experience from that.

Compounding the lack of direct, repeated exposure to the basics is the fact that many people have a bizarre aversion to reading manuals (demonstrated from time to time on this forum). The result is that you get people doing things that seem to make sense to them but are less than best practice for vehicle repair and maintenance.
Agree w most of that. The ironic part is that the web and YouTube in particular have made it so easy to learn how to fix things yourself. If you want to see how to replace an actuator in a 2002 Ford F-150, there is probably a video with instructions and a link to the parts. You’d think more people would be fixing stuff themselves, not less.
 

elemental

Wherever you go, there you are.
Agree w most of that. The ironic part is that the web and YouTube in particular have made it so easy to learn how to fix things yourself. If you want to see how to replace an actuator in a 2002 Ford F-150, there is probably a video with instructions and a link to the parts. You’d think more people would be fixing stuff themselves, not less.
My now 18 year old son is a wiz at describing how to do things, most of which he learned on YouTube. Actually doing them? Hit or miss. The stuff one "learns" has to be actually done to build the skills. YouTube videos can be deceptive - someone can believe they know how to do something, but find out that the video they learned it from left out information critical to actually "doing" the thing. A lot of foundation skills are assumed to be present and not necessarily shown.
 

danski0224

Active member
Yes you are correct re rocker panels Vic,
Part of the reason for the $10K repair quote was that MB parts didn't sell the rocker guard (sill) as a single component. The good panel beater said that MB would only sell the whole inner/outer door frame area, and that he would have to cut out the area that he required. Each side by memory was about $2K in parts. His quote went to about 3 A4 pages labour and materials. He also had a picture of the parts breakdown that he showed me.
I was sort of distressed about having my van cut way way open unnecessarily so i suggested that he just pull out the bends with pullers from floor anchors, bog up what was necessary and paint it, especially as it was not a highly visible area.
That's what they ended up doing.
Another reason that the quote went high is because the doors are a 3 man lift when you consider OH@S requirements for employees. 1 man to undo door fixings, 2 men to hold weight of door etc. So more labour intensive.
I put yellow/black hazard tape on the 4 lift points to show future tyre places the only places to lift but they peeled off.
Now i think i should paint the curved lift points orange or similar.
The damage to my van was only one side, and probably not quite as bad as yours, but the fix was similar.

The body shop glued a pulling point to the rocker panel, and then got most of the damage out. No cutting or welding, to preserve whatever Mercedes puts in that closed space.

There are *many* Sprinters on the road in my area with crunched up rocker panels. The owners/drivers also either miss the damage or don't care.

The OEM provisions for lifting the vehicle suck.
 

mk216v

Active member
Me too, Jim - it feels as though every time my bike or van is in the garage, it picks up damage from clumsy mechanical work or damage.

In a slightly related note, I found Van Compass and Owl Vans here in the US make a bash guard for it... it's pretty exposed. The lip is certainly proud enough to do pick up damage from rocks if you venture off road a bit.


It's the Van Compass rear diff skid plate. Owl doesnt make one--they sell Van Compass, as do a lot of other Van Compass dealers.

Sad to see tire shops jacking up the van this way. The Van Compass skid will cover this area.
 

Rocksnsalt

There Can Be Only ONE
I’m surprised no one is making/marketing a diff cover plate that eliminates the proud diff cover problem. Seems like a market, though the skid plates already available are another solution. But guess what, they lower your low (scrape) point.
 

Eric B

Well-known member
@dougtheslug happened to me the second or third time I used it - replaced under warranty at my local dealer - they are prone to it, it’s a thing ... I bought a 3 ton floor jack to use at home... might look into replacing the failure prone MBZ unit for a more reliable RV bottle Jack ... besides the MBZ unit is barely tall enough to fit a 4x4, much less one with bigger than stock tires and/or a lift
 

Eric B

Well-known member
@VanGoSki i referred to the various AgileOffroad and VanCompass suspension installation instructions available online to see where they use floor jacks on a Sprinter... tire rotations every 3500mi, oil changes every 5000miles, and 25,000miles on the odometer without any issues ...
 

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