LifePO4 batteries

ERNURTRNS

Member
Sure, if that was the case. It's not though. While the Gyll battery is great value, $1500 USD for 5.1kwh is nowhere near as good as $600USD for 3.7kwh. It's just about twice the price per kwh ($294 vs $162).

When it comes to "smaller and lighter with higher capacity", I don't see how that's possible when we are taking about the same battery chemistry. With minor variances depending on the exact construction of the enclosure, the energy density is going to be fairly similar across the board.
I'd love to learn about the root you took. Currently the 217AH of AGM I have is working quite well other than heavy and taking up a ton of Space. Is there anywhere i can read about that same route you took or where I can look at purchased products?
 

firebat45

Well-known member
There's lots of good information on diysolarforum.com (and Will Prowse on YouTube). There's also good info on openenergymonitor.org.

Making your own battery is simple. First, pick your cells and buy them. I chose EVE 280ah Lifepo4 cells. I bought 8 of them, so I have the option of running 2x 12v bank or 1x 24v bank. Then, pick your BMS based off the voltage you want and the discharge rating you need. I chose to build a "DIYBMS", which is very cost effective and feature rich, but there's plenty of options (Daly, OverkillSolar, Batrium, etc).

Then it's just a matter of building a box for it all and assembling it. Since you're building from components, it's easier to make the battery a shape that will work well in your van. While the Gyll batteries are nice, I haven't seen anybody with a rackmount setup in a van. Plus, you can easily keep costs below $0.25/Wh including the BMS.

You'd get more storage and better performance out of a 100ah Lifepo4 battery than your 217ah AGM, and the lithium battery would be smaller than a typical car battery and weigh half as much. Lithium really is the way of the future.
 

ERNURTRNS

Member
There's lots of good information on diysolarforum.com (and Will Prowse on YouTube). There's also good info on openenergymonitor.org.

Making your own battery is simple. First, pick your cells and buy them. I chose EVE 280ah Lifepo4 cells. I bought 8 of them, so I have the option of running 2x 12v bank or 1x 24v bank. Then, pick your BMS based off the voltage you want and the discharge rating you need. I chose to build a "DIYBMS", which is very cost effective and feature rich, but there's plenty of options (Daly, OverkillSolar, Batrium, etc).

Then it's just a matter of building a box for it all and assembling it. Since you're building from components, it's easier to make the battery a shape that will work well in your van. While the Gyll batteries are nice, I haven't seen anybody with a rackmount setup in a van. Plus, you can easily keep costs below $0.25/Wh including the BMS.

You'd get more storage and better performance out of a 100ah Lifepo4 battery than your 217ah AGM, and the lithium battery would be smaller than a typical car battery and weigh half as much. Lithium really is the way of the future.
I did intend to use the van in the winter for splitboarding in Banff, but have yet to install a diesel heater. So I may do research and build a couple through the winter and see how they fair through the next season. Thank you! I'll look into things.
 

aksotar

2017 4x4 144 Cargo
Being an Alaskan and having LiFePo4s.. I have lots of experience in cold temps and using these..
Mounting them inside ones van doesn't do crap unless you leave your van and heater on all the time... just how does the inside stay warm if you haven't started your van in a couple of days and you live where it's below freezing every day all Winter long ????
I HAD 2x Battleborns, after the headaches the 1st Winter I ended up getting their 12v heating pads (@$200 ea)... their BMS prevented them from charging when cold (also affected their discharge and everything in my 12v system)... it worked but, to me, it was a bandaid type fix in reality... I just changed to a made in the USA Lithionics GTX 315 ah, self heating battery, metal case... not much bigger than the 2 Battleborns and 115 more AHs but big $$$... I see that BB now has self heating ones too.. (still the thin plastic case)
I wouldn't run AGMs to 50%... I'd use down to 70%... it takes LOTS longer to charge it, especially compared to a LiFePo4.. and it's harder on the battery's life...
for Edmonton, I would insulate the heck out of your van regardless of house battery type and get a diesel heater (ie:Espar) and speaking of diesel heaters... when you go skiing and boondock at an area, if you turn it on when you park, your van will be toasty when you come back vs having to wait for it to warm up.. and in really cold temps it will have to warm up the insulation layer too which will cause it to run full blast for lots longer.. be sure to vent otherwise your windows will get covered in moisture/frost just from your breath condensing on them...
 

ERNURTRNS

Member
Being an Alaskan and having LiFePo4s.. I have lots of experience in cold temps and using these..
Mounting them inside ones van doesn't do crap unless you leave your van and heater on all the time... just how does the inside stay warm if you haven't started your van in a couple of days and you live where it's below freezing every day all Winter long ????
I HAD 2x Battleborns, after the headaches the 1st Winter I ended up getting their 12v heating pads (@$200 ea)... their BMS prevented them from charging when cold (also affected their discharge and everything in my 12v system)... it worked but, to me, it was a bandaid type fix in reality... I just changed to a made in the USA Lithionics GTX 315 ah, self heating battery, metal case... not much bigger than the 2 Battleborns and 115 more AHs but big $$$... I see that BB now has self heating ones too.. (still the thin plastic case)
I wouldn't run AGMs to 50%... I'd use down to 70%... it takes LOTS longer to charge it, especially compared to a LiFePo4.. and it's harder on the battery's life...
for Edmonton, I would insulate the heck out of your van regardless of house battery type and get a diesel heater (ie:Espar) and speaking of diesel heaters... when you go skiing and boondock at an area, if you turn it on when you park, your van will be toasty when you come back vs having to wait for it to warm up.. and in really cold temps it will have to warm up the insulation layer too which will cause it to run full blast for lots longer.. be sure to vent otherwise your windows will get covered in moisture/frost just from your breath condensing on them...
Van is already fully insulated all the way around. I just didn't get to the heater due to cost (and other priorities/responsibilities) but it is in the list to do in the near future. That being said If I don't get a heater before the snow flies i will be pulling the batteries anyway just to keep from having issues.
 

aksotar

2017 4x4 144 Cargo
Once you do get and install a heater I'd suggest being able to charge your house bank via B2B, solar and ground, the trifecta of charging, cover all the bases.... in northern climes (and snow) you can't count on much really useable solar during the Winter.... low sun agles and less hours of sunlight yet more power useage...
adding a heater is pretty easy (esp if you have the aux fuel tap)....
 

ERNURTRNS

Member
Once you do get and install a heater I'd suggest being able to charge your house bank via B2B, solar and ground, the trifecta of charging, cover all the bases.... in northern climes (and snow) you can't count on much really useable solar during the Winter.... low sun agles and less hours of sunlight yet more power useage...
adding a heater is pretty easy (esp if you have the aux fuel tap)....
I also have solar, DC/DC charger and shore power should I need it. I do not have the auxiliary fuel tap as it was used by Mercedes to install the coolant heater in my build.
 

aksotar

2017 4x4 144 Cargo
I have the heater/booster, had to splice a "T" into my tap, it's still pretty easy to do, the easy start pro controller is also easy to wire... just make sure the fuel pump is mounted at the correct angle...
I planned on installing a block heater and didn't want the coolant heater..
 

ERNURTRNS

Member
I have the heater/booster, had to splice a "T" into my tap, it's still pretty easy to do, the easy start pro controller is also easy to wire... just make sure the fuel pump is mounted at the correct angle...
I planned on installing a block heater and didn't want the coolant heater..
Like you it seems I don't trust winter as far as I can throw it. I had a block heater put in just for the sake of back up should the coolant heater fail....I just wish it had a remote start not just a timed start. The fuel tap is the only thing that worries me. I grew up knowing to not get air into a diesel system nor run it dry. So cutting into the fuel system is probably the scariest part for me, from there I can fully install the rest myself. Maybe you can offer advice as far as where to wire my heater. I have several spots in which I can do this. I have my AGM house batteries, starting battery and I also have the factory house battery under the hood. I'd prefer to not wire anything to the starting battery....because shit happens and things get left on. I'd also rather not attempt to run the wiring all the way back to the house system. Is the under hood house battery sufficient enough to run the heater for semi-extended periods of time? Obviously the only way to charge it is through the alternator, but I wouldn't be parked for more than a day or two max. That being said I would be keen on using it in the fall hunting season should I decide to setup shop, stay a couple days and use the heater mainly at night.
 

aksotar

2017 4x4 144 Cargo
Mine is wired to my 12v fuse block from my house battery, the aux would work too and you could tap into it under the drivers seat.. personally, I'd never tap into my starter battery but some do...
I'm guessing Moose and Deer around Edmonton, do you have any Caribou close ??
it's Moose Seaon here (but I have a cabin)
62EF66C0-76BC-4E0F-AB4E-961461AAF241.jpeg
 

ERNURTRNS

Member
Mine is wired to my 12v fuse block from my house battery, the aux would work too and you could tap into it under the drivers seat.. personally, I'd never tap into my starter battery but some do...
I'm guessing Moose and Deer around Edmonton, do you have any Caribou close ??
it's Moose Seaon here (but I have a cabin)
View attachment 193604
I wouldn't attach much to my starting battery either. Too much at risk if something is left on, grounding out or stealing power. Auxiliary battery it is, considering it only has my light bar on it at the moment.

No Caribou close. I have a buddy who was just up your way on an outfitted trip and managed to get himself a big caribou. Depending on where you are at around here its only really open for bow at the moment. That being said Moose, Deer and Elk are probably the main animals in season. Cant beat Alaskan moose....we get some big boys here but I don't think they compare. Y'all must put something in the water.
 

aksotar

2017 4x4 144 Cargo
My area is 3 brow tines or 50" minimum for Moose..... Roosevelt Elk up here are transplanted (mainly on Afognak and Raspberry Isls) big bodies but smallish racks...
 

firebat45

Well-known member
Being an Alaskan and having LiFePo4s.. I have lots of experience in cold temps and using these..
Mounting them inside ones van doesn't do crap unless you leave your van and heater on all the time... just how does the inside stay warm if you haven't started your van in a couple of days and you live where it's below freezing every day all Winter long ????
I've never really found this to be a problem. If you're not using the van, the batteries are perfectly fine being cold. They just can't be charged cold or discharged when very cold.

If you are using the van, you will want the inside to be a reasonable temperature anyways.

If you're trying to warm up the van after a period of non-use, I would simply just have some 12v heater mats that can run off the main vehicle battery, just enough to "bootstrap" the battery. Running the dash heater would also work, albeit very slowly.
 

firebat45

Well-known member
Like you it seems I don't trust winter as far as I can throw it. I had a block heater put in just for the sake of back up should the coolant heater fail....I just wish it had a remote start not just a timed start. The fuel tap is the only thing that worries me. I grew up knowing to not get air into a diesel system nor run it dry. So cutting into the fuel system is probably the scariest part for me, from there I can fully install the rest myself. Maybe you can offer advice as far as where to wire my heater. I have several spots in which I can do this. I have my AGM house batteries, starting battery and I also have the factory house battery under the hood. I'd prefer to not wire anything to the starting battery....because shit happens and things get left on. I'd also rather not attempt to run the wiring all the way back to the house system. Is the under hood house battery sufficient enough to run the heater for semi-extended periods of time? Obviously the only way to charge it is through the alternator, but I wouldn't be parked for more than a day or two max. That being said I would be keen on using it in the fall hunting season should I decide to setup shop, stay a couple days and use the heater mainly at night.
You can run the diesel heater off of an aux battery or even the starter battery, but I would be careful about going longer than 24 hours especially in cold weather. A much better idea is to run it from the house battery, so there's no worry.
 

aksotar

2017 4x4 144 Cargo
I've never really found this to be a problem. If you're not using the van, the batteries are perfectly fine being cold. They just can't be charged cold or discharged when very cold.

If you are using the van, you will want the inside to be a reasonable temperature anyways.

If you're trying to warm up the van after a period of non-use, I would simply just have some 12v heater mats that can run off the main vehicle battery, just enough to "bootstrap" the battery. Running the dash heater would also work, albeit very slowly.
did you not see the Alaska and Edmonton parts ?? We're not talking about Florida type of cold..
you're welcome to use your suggestions, good luck in the conditions we've been talking about.....
in our cold, there is NO WAY I'd power anything off the starter battery, not worth the chance especially considering remoteness and lack of consistent cell coverage with the places I go....
 

firebat45

Well-known member
did you not see the Alaska and Edmonton parts ?? We're not talking about Florida type of cold..
Yes, actually, I did. In fact, I live in Edmonton and nearly all of my camping is in Northern Alberta, often in the winter. I stayed in the van last winter when it was -49C. Turns out, I survived just fine, even without you wishing me good luck at the time. So I have a bit of experience with the weather you are talking about.

You'll also notice that I recommended not running off the starter battery. However, not everybody has another option, and wiring to the starter battery is doable. I've done it with my Jetta in the past. I've stayed 24 hours in below-freezing temperatures running the diesel heater off the starter, and had no problems starting. No, I do not think it's a great idea, but it is possible. I keep a booster pack in all my winter vehicles, just in case.
 

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