Now that my glow plugs are unrepairable...hydronic diesel water heater for preheat?

[WannaSprint]

I'm not that motivated to adapt a grid heater like that, particularly on the pressure side of the turbo.

 

[WannaSprint]

Wolverine model 16 engine preheater. 260 watts, 110 V.

That's all I know about it. It was on there when I bought it, suggesting the glow plugs have been bad and not easily serviceable before I bought it.

 

[PrinterUser]

My glow plugs are shot. Two shops and I have attempted to pull them (250K miles, 2008 Sprinter) without success. The van does not justify $5,000 to pull the heads on my van life toy. I live in Kentucky, where there are about 3 months when glow plugs are convenient-or-essential. I don't need to depend on it starting day-to-day, but I'd like to be able to go on ski trips with my family confidently. At home, I plug in the oil pan heater, which helps cranking, but does not help ignition on a sub-freezing first start. I've got various tricks to get it started, which are too inconvenient to do regularly.

Soooo...having dismissed the proper $5K repair, I see two promising paths:

1. Sell it to someone down south (with full disclosure) who has almost zero days per year that it would be a problem.
2. Install a diesel engine water heater, to heat and circulate the engine coolant.

Option 1 would be fine...but I really like the van and don't want to start over. Option 2 is what I'm targeting.

I've fooled around heating the air coming into the engine, and am convinced this is not enough to get a 32°F engine started without excessive cranking. I've tried an electric heat gun, propane torch, and a dryer duct from the Espar heater. Each approach eventually succeeds, but takes several minutes of cranking -- spread out to not overheat the starter. All-in-all, this is a 10-20 minute exercise under the hood. This is not acceptable for starter and battery life, as well as the great inconvenience of it all.

I'm confident that it is the temperature of the head, cylinder and piston that is critical for starting (without glow plugs)...not so much the temperature of the incoming air. This is confirmed by easily restarting a warm engine an hour or two later in freezing air without glow plugs.

The oil pan heater does get the oil warm and thin for good circulation...but I do not believe it does anything notable for heating the heads. (Opinions on that?) The pan is good and warm to the touch, and the heater itself (a big stick-on patch heater) is almost too hot to touch. The heads feel as cold as the air. This requires shore power, to boot, so not very helpful on a ski trip.

So that brings me to Option 2:

Install something like this:

Espar / Eberspacher Hydronic S3 D5E CS 12V Diesel Water Heater

The Espar Hydronic S3 D5E is a 3rd generation coolant heater. Released in 2019, it uses cutting-edge tech to stay silent, efficient, and very powerful.

www.heatso.com

or this:

Webasto Thermo Top C Diesel 12v (5.2 kW) Water Heater

Webasto Thermo Top C Diesel 12v 5.2 KW water heater will defrost your windows, preheat the engine, and warm up the cabin without needing to keep the van idling.

www.heatso.com

I've found that my Espar air heater heats up quickly...within a few minutes it's cranking out toasty air. I'm assuming a hydronic heater would internally heat as quickly. I'm not sure how much longer it would take to heat the engine. I'm guessing somewhere between 5 and 30 minutes? If anyone has knowledge on this, PLEASE let me know.

For my mission, that delay is acceptable. I can always turn the heater on 20 minutes before departure. A remote, timer, or network control would make it even easier. Heck, I could let the thing run all night if the circumstances required it.

My thinking here is this will cost maybe $1,500 with a name-brand heater, or far less if I went with a brandless import. (Pretty sure I'd go name-brand on this one). I'd install it myself.

The bonus with this path is that I can preheat my engine for better engine life and have a redundant cabin heat source...possibly through the Mercedes cabin heat, but I think I'd probably go with an aftermarket heater core for simplicity and more heat in the rear of the van.

Also, I can use this heater to heat my Isotemp water heater, which has an engine coolant loop in the tank -- not currently plumbed to the engine.


So...all this seems clever and economical, with some nice side benefits. BUT...it is only worthwhile if it will actually start my Sprinter on a sub-zero day. Can anyone talk me into or out of this idea?

 

[PrinterUser]

come to Jersey bro.
American mechanic pretty complicated...

 

[PrinterUser]

And more

 

[WannaSprint]

Looks good, @PrinterUser ! Pity I'm not closer to you.

What is a typical cost for glow plug extraction?

 

[Sprinter SS]

Hazet 4760/6 Glow plug removal set

Hazet Tools 4760/6 Glow plug removal set - high quality German engineering at the lowest price. Free same day shipping available.

www.kctoolco.com

 

[Rob S]

So, it bears repeating here, none of the temporary solutions of getting it started will overcome the failure to regen the DPF, unless of course you already have DPF delete done on it.

If you don't have a working dpf, you could get a 1500w generator, and an electric blower heater, and place the heater under the hood for an hour or so. That should heat up the entire engine so it starts like summertime. Of course, if you are near a wall plug, use that.

 

[99sport]

Looks like I am late to the party here. Of course Dennis at the right answer, but what about the following: Plumb an isotemp water heater; leave the 120V AC plugged in overnight so you have 4 gallons of 170 deg F water waiting in the morning. Then run the aux coolant pump for 15 minutes before cranking by cycling the Ignition switch and pushing the REST button. Added benefit is you have lots of free hot water on your journeys. Cheaper and easier than the Espar and you get house hot water heated with waste heat.

 

[WannaSprint]

Thanks for that idea, @99sport ! I had NO idea what "REST" was. From experimentation, I thought it was the lamest name for "A/C off" ever. I tried it out (after turning the key off) and it works just as advertised.

As it is, I have an Isotemp water heater in the back. It's shore-power only. The prior owner never installed the engine coolant circuit...I'm not sure why. That's been low on my 'To Do' list, but I've got more incentive now, particularly with your REST tip.

I've decided going to find a local diesel shop (instead of a Sprinter shop) to extract the stuck plugs, in any case.

 

[Franny]

Glow plug #2 was bad in our 2005 which we bought 2 years ago. After researching on this forum and much handwringing I followed the recommendations of repeated soaking, warm engine, gently tighten/loosen, etc. Heard a snap at one point and figured the threads broke. Continued unscrewing and found that wasn’t the situation.

The rebuilt D5 does a fantastic job of heating the block and instant starts, and much less smoke out the rear than 4 working glow plugs.

12,000 miles later and still waiting for the blast through the hood. Have gloves, deep socket, and new glow plug ready for side of road repair ⛑

 

[PrinterUser]

Looks good, @PrinterUser ! Pity I'm not closer to you.

What is a typical cost for glow plug extraction?

Price depends of cylinder location But it’s between 200 and 300 bucks