Lithionics Lithium Battery Drop In & Upgrade To Full Coach Operation!

[SSTraveler]

I've decided I don't want to waste my time trying to add my old Victron BMV-712 battery monitor from my AGM batteries to my new Lithionics 315ah battery since it has such advanced built-in Bluetooth® Telemetry. The Lithionics App provides so much information! This is another plus for Lithionics, you don’t have the extra expenses and installation hassle of adding a Victron Bluetooth Battery Monitor and temperature sensor, just to be able to monitor your batteries. Installing a shunt, temperature sensors, and a display are a must with the other brands of Lithium batteries so you can understand their performance.

 

[SSTraveler]

Boy this TEMCo 4/0 cable is incredibly flexible. It came in a 4" coil, I'm amazed. I'm having to lay it out to get the coils to loosen. It is heavy though!

 

[SSTraveler]

I just received the BlueSea E-Series 350a rated switch that I ordered for the Inverter battery disconnect switch and it is just to big, 3-5/8" diameter. I wanted to have this new battery switch as close as possible to my current house battery disconnect switch, since that would be the most convenient for use. I'm installing the Xantrex Inverter in the outside compartment next to the door (to left of door) and just below the pop-up TV cabinet I thought it would be reasonable. I see others using the BlueSea M-Series 300A rated switch, but I wanted at least a 350a continous amp rated switch, because the positive 4/0 cable from the Lithionics Battery to the Xantrex inverter is protected by a 350a Class T Fuse. I'm concerned that a switch rated less than the Class T Fuse may burn up before the ClassT Fuse can do its job. IMHO, it doesn't make sense to use a lesser continous amp rated switch a cable that is protected by a higher rated Fuse. Therefore any switch you use needs to be rated at equal or greater than the fuse protecting the cable/component. Plus those BlueSea E-Series (350a rated) or HD-Series (600a rated) On-off switches are just so big (3-5/8" diameter) and running the 4/0 cable up from the outside compartment to the TV cabinet will be challenging. So I decided to try an Inverter Battery Switch Alternative that EnerGT came up with. An alternative to the BlueSea Sea 350a Inverter battery power switch is a BlueSea Heavy Duty ML-RBS 500a with remote switch, https://www.bluesea.com/products/7700/ML-RBS_Remote_Battery_Switch_with_Manual_Control_-_12V_DC_500A. While this switch is more than 3 times the cost of the standard Blue Sea Systems 350 amp E- Series Battery Switch, as I purchased from list above, it does offer a solution for locating a heavy duty switch in a more conveniently accessible location. So it maybe worth the extra expense to use this BlueSea ML-RBS 500a switch for a cleaner more convenient inverter battery power switch. I can install the BlueSea ML-RBS magnetic latching switch in the outside compartment close to the Xantrex inverter much easier and then run a much smaller 16awg multiple strand wire up to the location that I want the remote BlueSea Switch, just above the current house battery disconnect switch.

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Here is a video of the BlueSea ML Remote Battery Switch (#7700), I discussed in this post. I'll be using this more convenient switch for my Inverter Battery Switch.

 

[SSTraveler]

Yesterday, I started the conversion of my storage compartment to accommodate the Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000w Inverter. I cut holes in the back for the Inverter exhaust fans and to pull all my wiring through. I'm not removing the carpet that lines my compartment rather I'm lining the area where I'm putting the inverter with Aluminum sheet metal. I thought that would be easier than trying to tear up the carpet. I had some scrap pieces and found inexpensive sheets at Home Depot. I have to work around my Solar and Leveler wiring, so I'm making my inverter compartment 10" wide versus the 7.75" which is what Leisure makes it with their Xantrex 2000w inverter installation. The white marks are where marked for the new inverter compartment wall placement and to outline where the inverter sits. I'll be setting the inverter on it's side on top of two pieces of 1.25" square stock scraps I had to keep it up off the floor. I'll be covering the large holes with some scrap screening material I have. I used my Dewalt Grinder and Rotary Cutting tool to make the cut outs.

 

[SSTraveler]

We are having a below freezing cold snap here in SC, thank goodness my new Lithionics 12v315GTX lithium battery has a built-in heater that only uses 1 amp per hour to run and it's all automatic! My 200w of solar easily powers it during the day and keeps my new Lithionics battery fully charged, so no issues running it through the night! I am so glad I selected a Lithionics Lithium battery, not having battery worries, Priceless!

 

[SSTraveler]

I made more progress on my new Inverter compartment. I have all my ventilation holes cut and covered with screen and for the side vents I added a grill using some cut aluminum sheeting for protection of the screening. I'm leaving the back just covered with a screen because the inverter is going to be sitting with its back exhaust fans very close so they can do their job when operating. The other vents I created are for air flow and ventilation of the front of the inverter. The inverter will be mounted up on it's side, the side showing, with the fans butted up to the back openings and the front wire connections to the front or door opening of the compartment. The side will be sitting on top pieces of 1.25" square galvanized steel stock I had left over from other projects. I haven't completely decided how I am going to secure the Xantrex inverter yet.

 

[hoosierrun]

I've already added the Micro-Air Easy-Start (https://www.microair.net/products/easystart-364-3-ton-single-phase-soft-starter-for-air-conditioners) to my Dometic Penguin ll air conditioner/heat pump and here is the guide I created to make it easy for others to complete. The installation is the same whether you have a 13,500 btu or 15,000 btu Dometic Penguin ll AC/heat pump unit. You need to add the Easy-Start because it dampens the compressor amp spike when the compressor kicks on, so the EasyStart will make it much easier for a 3000w Inverter to run the AC while you are using the other items in the coach at the same time.

Thanks, I did the installation today and it's going through the learning process now. It runs, so that is a good sign. LOL I had to wait for all the condensation to dry off the roof for safety reasons and all started good until the wind picked up. Working on the roof in the wind is not fun, but I was at a point of no return. I went to print the instructions and the printer ran out of ink so it was a few times up and down the ladder. Between the factory instructions and your instructions and double checking my work, I only made one mistake but caught on the double check (fortunately before I turned the power on). The wire from the start capacitor for the heat pump that gets moved to the run capacitor terminal C was misplaced and initially installed on a back terminal of the capacitor. That back terminal is only used for the fan. Also, that wire was purple, not black, but the manual said it could be either color.

As of now, I don't have plans to run the AC on battery but certainly may head that way as the year unfolds.

I really appreciate the effort you made to create the PDF.

TIP for anyone looking to buy this at the best price. Get it from the factory and use the code AIRSTREAM and get $40 off. Also, the installation kit (extra $10) might be helpful, but honestly, I only used the crimp connectors, the tie wraps, and the bushing. Two pieces of VHB tape are included in the kit for mounting. I had my own. Micro Start now includes wiring with the female connectors factory installed on the pigtail. That does make it a little tougher to push the wires through the two openings, but I did not have any significant problems.

 

[SSTraveler]

I installed my EasyStart because I was finding campgrounds with low amp 30 and 50 outlets, particularly State Parks. So I installed the EasyStart as a preemptive measure so I wouldn't have issues trying to run my AC at campgrounds such as these. Also I wanted to be able to plug into my 20a normal garage outlet and be able to run the AC. Since I misunderstood that the EasyStart learn process can't be accomplished using the generator, I ended up installing a 30a RV outlet anyway so I could finish my EasyStart install. But I do like knowing that I can run the AC from a 20a outlet. It gives me peace of mind knowing that in an emergency I could plug into any standard 20a outlet anywhere and run my AC. Like at a friend's house or at a campground on a 20a outlet if I needed to. I like options, because you never know what you are going to encounter out on the road! But yes, now that I'm installing a powerful Lithionics Lithium battery, the EasyStart makes running the AC much easier off my new battery. So the EasyStart is a good addition from every angle!

 

[hoosierrun]

I installed my EasyStart because I was finding campgrounds with low amp 30 and 50 outlets, particularly State Parks. So I installed the EasyStart as a preemptive measure so I wouldn't have issues trying to run my AC at campgrounds such as these. Also I wanted to be able to plug into my 20a normal garage outlet and be able to run the AC. Since I misunderstood that the EasyStart learn process can't be accomplished using the generator, I ended up installing a 30a RV outlet anyway so I could finish my EasyStart install. But I do like knowing that I can run the AC from a 20a outlet. It gives me peace of mind knowing that in an emergency I could plug into any standard 20a outlet anywhere and run my AC. Like at a friend's house or at a campground on a 20a outlet if I needed to. I like options, because you never know what you are going to encounter out on the road! But yes, now that I'm installing a powerful Lithionics Lithium battery, the EasyStart makes running the AC much easier off my new battery. So the EasyStart is a good addition from every angle!

Right. That was my primary purpose too. We have come across a few campgrounds that only had spots left with 20 amp circuits.

 

[SSTraveler]

I have been inundated with questions from Leisure Unity and Wonder owners about my Lithionics 315ah Battery so here is a cost comparison sheet that may be helpful to others considering a Lithium battery upgrade. I've also attached the Lithionics full spec sheets on the 2 sizes of Lithionics Batteries that will fit in Leisure step battery boxes. I believe the Lithionics 315ah with Bluetooth internal Battery Monitor and heater fits in the step box of all Unity models and some Wonder models. Two Lithionics 125ah (250ah total) with Bluetooth internal Battery Monitor and lots of other features fit in the rest of the Wonder models.

I wouldn't dismiss the Lithionics batteries based on it's MSRP alone. Lithionics gives a significant discount to Leisure Owners if you contact them. Their Factory direct price makes their cost very close to other leading battery manufacturers and considering all the extra features it's well worth the investment. It's worth a few extra bucks to get all the advanced features and to pack as many amp hours as I can into my step compartment battery box. When you contact Lithionics, you'll see that you can get a Lithionics 315ah Lithium battery with built-in automatic heater and Bluetooth Battery Monitor for less than the Leisure cost of $3770 for the 200ah Lithium battery option with external heating pad. Two Lithionics 125ah batteries give you 250ah of Advanced Lithionics Lithium battery capability in your step compartment for about 40% less than the cost of the Leisure 200ah battery option! You are really wasting your money on the Leisure Lithium option!

The fact that you can get a Lithionics Battery for less than the Leisure Lithium Option ($3770) is particularly noteworthy for the 2020 and newer Unity and Wonder models because Leisure now installs a Sterling 30a DC-DC charger for safe engine alternator charging when driving and the Xantrex 2000w Inverter for safe fast charging from Shore/Generator power, both have Lithium battery charging settings! So the new Leisure Unity's come completely ready for you to do your own simple battery replacement from the standard AGM batteries to a Lithionics 315ah or dual 125ah (250ah) Advanced Lithium Batteries. No extra modifications required! This is another reason why new Leisure owners shouldn't waste their money on the inadequate Leisure Lithium battery option! Call or email Jackson D'Ettorre find out more about Lithionics batteries!

Jackson D'Ettore
Product Manager
1770 Calumet Street
Clearwater, FL 33765 USA
jackson@lithionicsbattery.com
Office: 727-726-4204 | Web: LithionicsBattery.com

One last recommendation, to verify the Leisure electrical attributes of your particular model I suggest you contact Leisure's Willie Neufeld, WNeufeld@tripleerv.com. Email him first with your VIN#, email address, and phone number and request him to send you, via email, the PDF versions of your Leisure model 120vAC and 12vDC electrical systems wiring diagrams. Then follow up that email with a call to him (877-992-9906 ask the operator to connect you to him) and leave a message on his voice-mail of what you are requesting and that you sent an email with this request, containing all your Leisure and contact information. He will very promptly send you PDFs of your wiring diagrams. These diagrams are helpful on many levels so you should get them regardless of any changes or modifications you might be considering.

 

[SSTraveler]

I attached the inverter support rails to my new inverter compartment floor using VHB tape. Then I placed the Xantrex Inverter on them and determined how I will secure it. I'm making a single bracket that will be screwed into the top flange of the inverter and screwed into the wall. Then with the added wiring secured to the wall, that should be more than enough to keep the inverter solidly in place. Plus I added vhb tape to the two rails so the inverter will be stuck in place to those as well. I stuck a couple of dense foam bumpers on the back wall because the Xantrex inverter has a circuit breaker reset button that I want to ensure does accidentally get tripped. It's easy to get to from the outside through the screen. I can easy use a stiff piece of wire to go through the screen and push the reset button. I tried to think ahead to be able to access that small circuit breaker reset button if I need to in the future.

As you can see there is plenty of room to run the wiring in between the wall and the inverter. I used 1" aluminum angle stock to make the mounting bracket for the separation wall between the inverter bay and the rest of the compartment. I just screwed the angle stock pieces into the compartment to make a frame. So then at the very end of my installation, I'll just screw a piece of the copper colored Aluminum sheeting to that frame.

 

[SSTraveler]

Actually, I looked this us as I'll never be able to get to mine. Here is what it says about the reset button between the two fans:

"A supplementary protector with reset button provides overload protection for the Freedom XC PROGFCI Kit (PN: 808-9817) (sold separately) option. Press to recover from an overload condition. In a hard wired installation, the supplementary protector does not protect output wiring."

So I'm thinking if you are using the AC output option of the inverter and not the optional GFCI, you will never need to press this button.

Thanks for posting this and providing your experienced insight, it is very helpful!

 

[SSTraveler]

My good friend Treemaze brought to my attention that Leisure puts a plastic shroud over the exterior part of their Xantrex 2000w inverter vents. I'm guessing to cut down some of direct exposure to the outside or possibly reduce the impact of road turbulence when driving. I'm not exactly sure the purpose, but after feeling how much outside exposure there is from the bottom vent I was thinking I needed to add something along the lines of a residential dryer vent cover to provides some shielding. So today I'm going to figure out how to replicate this concept on the exterior back side of my new Inverter compartment. I'm trying to foresee everything I can before I permanently place the inverter in the spot I've created. It would be very disappointing if I had to remove it to correct an oversight.

 

[lvuman]

So today I'm going to figure out how to replicate this concept on the exterior backside of my new Inverter compartment.

It would be cool if you could find an old-style, aluminum ice cube tray to use for the shroud or use a flat piece of aluminum and space it out about an inch on 4 corners with washers. The airflow would escape around the edges.

 

[SSTraveler]

Treemaze offered to send me his, since he removed it during his Lithionics 630ah /Victron Multiplus 3000w Inverter installation. But, I decided to use a plastic dryer vent from Lowes as my bottom vent cover, https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lambro-4-in-dia-Plastic-Preferred-with-Guard-Dryer-Vent-Hood/3240558. I just removed the plastic cover from the vent pipe it comes with and cut a larger opening out of it. I trimmed out the spray foam around the compartment vent opening so it fits flush against the back of the compartment. I drilled holes to secure it with machine screws, washers, lock washers, and nuts. I added screening to the opening as well and snapped the grill in place. It turned out very nice. I didn't do anything for the top vent because it seems pretty enclosed as it is. At the end of the project I will probably put some spray foam around this area and the wires I run into the compartment to give it all added protection and better secure it all in place. Now that I've finished my inverter compartment, on to wiring! I was fortunate enough to sell my 1.5 year old AGM batteries to a Winnebago Navion owner a few spaces down in our RV storage lot, so I'm ready to remove those now and get on with my wiring.

 

[SSTraveler]

Wow, Lithionics just received UL Listing on their first of a kind silicone convection internal battery heating system. This is big news! I was recently in conversation with another Leisure owner about the safety of external battery heating kits, like the one Leisure adds to their Battleborn/Dragonfly Lithium battery option. Since Battleborn/Dragonfly and many of the other Lithium battery companies are partly or wholly Chinese owned, they also supply the heater kits, which are RADIANT type heaters and IMHO significantly less safe than CONVECTING type heaters. Particularly, since these heater kits are operated by a manual On-Off switch that you have to remember to turn off and on to maintain the Lithium battery temperature above freezing. Additionally, these batteries are housed in plastic cases, which are not necessarily higher temperature heat proof nor fireproof. The Lithionics 12v315GTX battery case is made of fireproof Powder Coated Aircraft Grade Aluminum with an IP67 Rating (Ingress protection code [IP] 67 means battery can be immersed into water 1m deep for 30 minutes), so it is much more robust and protective. This case coupled with the new Lithionics UL Listed silicone convection internal battery heater (automatically activates/deactivates to maintain the Battery temperature between 35-40° F, using only 1amp/hour) makes this the most advanced Lithium battery on the market today. This Lithionics Lithium battery is the best battery investment I have ever made! With the Lithionics 5 year defect warranty and minimum 2000 cycles guarantee, I will never need another house battery in my Leisure ownership!

 

[TampaSteve]

Arggg... Keep torturing us. Like many I purchased my Battleborns a year and a half ago and found them to be a super great investment. But technology improvements never stop, and getting an extra 25% capacity or so in the same space and some important extra features have me daydreaming away for these. Of course, if I wait another year and a half there may be even further improvements, but for me the (2) 125A is a real sweet spot. I'm too cowardly to venture thousands of miles away from home with just a single 315A though.

 

[TampaSteve]

I probably missed the discussion but why would you want a 12 volt disconnect switch. Since your battery has a completely usable on/off switch and I think even bluetooth support for it. I'm sure the inverter already as a soft on-off switch, right? What did I miss? Edit: I was wondering if I upgrade to these batteries if a switch is needed. Sure I can think of a weird situation or two but for the most part it seems the onboard battery switch would suffice and reduce cost, wiring, and complexity.

Here is a video of the BlueSea ML Remote Battery Switch (#7700), I discussed in this post. I'll be using this more convenient switch for my Inverter Battery Switch.

 

[SSTraveler]

I probably missed the discussion but why would you want a 12 volt disconnect switch. Since your battery has a completely usable on/off switch and I think even bluetooth support for it. I'm sure the inverter already as a soft on-off switch, right? What did I miss? Edit: I was wondering if I upgrade to these batteries if a switch is needed. Sure I can think of a weird situation or two but for the most part it seems the onboard battery switch would suffice and reduce cost, wiring, and complexity.

You are absolutely right. I guess it's just a personal preference and how one designs their system. I just wanted to have a separate inverter Isolation Switch because I'm going to use my Xantrex 3000w Inverter as I do the generator. Just turn it on by the inverter battery switch and inverter control panel when I want to use it. Otherwise I plan on leaving it off and disconnected so it doesn't uses any power off the battery. This may be overkill on my part but that is what I was thinking. Maybe once I start using my new system, I'll realize I really don't need a redundant inverter switch and can easily remove it. But you are asking the right questions, so you can plan your system the way you envision using it.

I forgot to say that I was leaving my Progressive Dynamics PD4655 55a charger and 12vdc power supply in place in my WFCO8955 Power distribution box so I can continue to use it as a basic charger/12v power supply as well. This has 14.4v boost charging and 13.2v float. I mostly rely on the solar charging during the day with the PD4655 having the ability to provide the bulk of the 12v power supply. This way when I'm on shore power I don't have to use the Xantrex inverter at all. If I find the new Lithionics has no issues providing all the 12v power and is adequately maintained with Solar charging alone when camping, then I'll just turn off the breaker to the PD4655 and only use it when we are at a completely shaded site. Bottom line, I have more than one battery charger so again I'm only using the Xantrex when needed, so to me it made sense to have a manual On-Off switch to keep it isolated from the battery when not using it.

 

[Zoe]

I’ve got an unknown echo charger installed by the dealer. So if I go to lithium, I may have a problem with trickle charging from lithium to AGM?