Lithionics Lithium Battery Drop In & Upgrade To Full Coach Operation!

Klipstr

2018 Wonder FTB
SSTraveler has basically said this in an earlier post but I thought I would elaborate as I just finished the install of the Xantrex Freedom Pro and used this "feature".

For those of you with the Magnum inverters you will find a yellow wire connected to the standard phone (like) plug used by Magnum that is plugged into the Accessory port on the inverter. The yellow wire is connected to the fuse block (exact circuit may vary among the various Unity models) and is used to power down the inverter if the battery disconnect switch is off. That is, there is no positive voltage from the house. Use this wire to connect to your new inverter to provide the proper operation: if there is no house power (switch off) then there is no inverting.

The optional connector plugged into the accessory port is referred to as:

DC Load Disconnect

The MM-DCLD (DC Load Disconnect) pigtail adapter is designed to provide a means to DISABLE the inverter function when a 12-volt DC signal is removed.
 

mikeme

2015 LTV IB: 2015 3500 V6
SSTraveler has basically said this in an earlier post but I thought I would elaborate as I just finished the install of the Xantrex Freedom Pro and used this "feature".

For those of you with the Magnum inverters you will find a yellow wire connected to the standard phone (like) plug used by Magnum that is plugged into the Accessory port on the inverter. The yellow wire is connected to the fuse block (exact circuit may vary among the various Unity models) and is used to power down the inverter if the battery disconnect switch is off. That is, there is no positive voltage from the house. Use this wire to connect to your new inverter to provide the proper operation: if there is no house power (switch off) then there is no inverting.

The optional connector plugged into the accessory port is referred to as:

DC Load Disconnect

The MM-DCLD (DC Load Disconnect) pigtail adapter is designed to provide a means to DISABLE the inverter function when a 12-volt DC signal is removed.
Does this also disable battery charging?

Would be of interest to folks who store indoors plugged into shore power.
 

hoosierrun

Active member
SSTraveler has basically said this in an earlier post but I thought I would elaborate as I just finished the install of the Xantrex Freedom Pro and used this "feature".

For those of you with the Magnum inverters you will find a yellow wire connected to the standard phone (like) plug used by Magnum that is plugged into the Accessory port on the inverter. The yellow wire is connected to the fuse block (exact circuit may vary among the various Unity models) and is used to power down the inverter if the battery disconnect switch is off. That is, there is no positive voltage from the house. Use this wire to connect to your new inverter to provide the proper operation: if there is no house power (switch off) then there is no inverting.

The optional connector plugged into the accessory port is referred to as:

DC Load Disconnect

The MM-DCLD (DC Load Disconnect) pigtail adapter is designed to provide a means to DISABLE the inverter function when a 12-volt DC signal is removed.
I had the original DCLD go bad and couldn't figure out why my inverter would not fire up. Simply unplugging the DCLD and restarting it got me going. I cut the heat shrink off the bad DCLD, and there is a tiny PC board in there. It takes the 12 volts from the pigtail and applies it to 2 of the the data jack leads (possibly bringing it down to 5 volt signal voltage) plus there is a connection that tells the inverter if the cord is plugged in (probably a jumper on the other leads). A new DCLD pigtail is about $25. The only thing I could think of is that the steering diode on that board opened up or one of the data wire leads lost connection, perhaps due to a bad solder joint. If the 12 volts is reduced, perhaps one of the components went bad.
 
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hoosierrun

Active member
Does this also disable battery charging?

Would be of interest to folks who store indoors plugged into shore power.
Only disables the inverter function. Of course charger can be turned off (put in standby) with the remote.
 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
Does this also disable battery charging?

Would be of interest to folks who store indoors plugged into shore power.
The Xantrex has 2 settings for ignition control, Inverter Ignition Control and Charger Ignition Control. You can disable either one or both the choice is yours.
20210418_052451.jpg
 

Mackcs

2018 LTV MB
KLIPSTER IS A MAGICIAN

He recently did an upgrade on my 2018 MB. It included getting rid of the four flex panels and installing six 100 watt monocrystalline compact panels with the famous Klipster clip system. (Leisure should truly investigate the damage to the roof caused by the flex panels they install)
Additionally, he installed the following: Victron Energy SmartShunt 500 amp 50m-Volt Battery Monitor (Bluetooth), Victron SmartSolar MPPT 100/50 Charge Controller, Xantrex 808-0817-02 Remote Control, Bluetooth, Freedom X/XC,Victron Energy Orion-Tr Smart 12/12-Volt 30 amp 360-Watt DC-DC Charger, Isolated (Bluetooth), Hutch Mountain Microair Easystart 364 + Free Install kit - RV Camper air Conditioner Soft Start Easy Start, and of course a Xantrex 818-3010 Inv/Chgr, Freedom XC PRO, 3000W 12V 150A. Almost forgot, The 315A Lithionics Battery. Wow. Very, very nice. I was so tired of every two weeks checking and adding water to my batteries. Yes, it fits in the step cavity.
And I can't count all the items of electrical to do this amazing upgrade.

Klipsters install is so very clean and beautiful. He was able to find room for an additional 200W of solar without any take offs of existing equipment such as Dish dome, internet boosters. Just enough enough room to walk around if needed. I had four flex panels prior 400W.
I can't believe he was able to fit the 3000W inverter in the original cavity. Tight fit for sure but it looks so great.

During the install he had some firmware issues with the bluetooth panel. He can talk more to that. I have a call into xantrex and hopefully a call back will come as I have not been able to synch it to Bluetooth.

Some other info that may be helpful to the non electrical engineer types (which I fit that category) is that I continue to ask Klipster questions which he answers in a timely fashion. Those items I am still attempting to get info on require using the system and troubleshoot as I go.

Some info
1-First night I used it I was at a friends and plugged to shore (only 20amp) with an added long extension cord. All night long my progressive surge protector made very strange sounds. Small electrical heater sounds power and heat went up and down all night. Klipster can talk to that
2-love the fact I can use all my appliances. Microwave, Duxtop induction cooktop etc. Ran my A/C short time as well separately
3-I have the dometic frig which has always worked well. I find myself doing some manual setting of it, going from battery to propane.
4-I still see my viltron shunt and the BMS on the Lithionics battery never say the same on SOC. Quite frustrating. Have not figured how to synch them as yet.

PROPS TO KLIPSTER. Super knowledgeable, Super nice person. Thanks many times over.

As I try to get better and learning this new system I am always reading the forum for all I can learn. And will update as I see I can add more input.
 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
This is an excellent setup, you should really enjoy it! You forgot to mention the Trik-L-Start he added, so all your batteries will be maintained from your solar when parked at your storage lot. I do hope you continue to use that nice cover, with the clear panels, you had made. Even though it was modified for your original solar panel configuration it should still work fine because it only takes less than 25w to keep your batteries maintained in storage. So the clear windows should still expose the areas of the panels it lines up to plenty of sun for battery maintenance charging. So keep using it as is, it will work great for your new setup.

You should read back on posts, 181, 183, 185, 189, and 190 for more on the Victron SOC not staying synced with the Lithionics BMS readings. IMHO, the Victron shunt just isn't as accurate as the Lithionics BMS, which is expected. I just got the new Lithionics BMS Remote Display so I'll stop using the Victron shunt display. Now that Lithionics offers a remote display to go with their batteries it's really unnecessary to install any of the Victron external shunts for additional battery monitoring.
 
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EnerGT

2020 LTV Unity MB
Klipstr just completed a Lithionics 315ah battery and Xantrex 3000w Inverter installation on a 2018 Unity MB and used the ACC Input/Ignition Control feature to turn the inverter on-off rather than install a new inverter/battery disconnect. He said the feature works beautifully!

So you have to plan on making your own single pin connection like Klipstr did.

View attachment 179200
@Klipstr - how did you make the single pin connection?
 

Mackcs

2018 LTV MB
This is an excellent setup, you should really enjoy it! You forgot to mention the Trik-L-Start he added, so all your batteries will be maintained from your solar when parked at your storage lot. I do hope you continue to use that nice cover, with the clear panels, you had made. Even though it was modified for your original solar panel configuration it should still work fine because it only takes less than 25w to keep your batteries maintained in storage. So the clear windows should still expose the areas of the panels it lines up to plenty of sun for battery maintenance charging. So keep using it as is, it will work great for your new setup.

You should read back on posts, 181, 183, 185, 189, and 190 for more on the Victron SOC not staying synced with the Lithionics BMS readings. IMHO, the Victron shunt just isn't as accurate as the Lithionics BMS, which is expected. I just got the new Lithionics BMS Remote Display so I'll stop using the Victron shunt display. Now that Lithionics offers a remote display to go with their batteries it's really unnecessary to install any of the Victron external shunts for additional battery monitoring.
Thanks SS. I had previously installed the trik l charger but you are right klipster had to also integrate that. In the past It worked well w your idea of the thick plastic material windows on the solar cover you had recommended back a while go. But the cover itself, not the plastic windows, is a constant fix and patch as it catches on roof items. W the new panels it will be way worse. But we may try it. Thank you for your thoughts. Appreciated
 

Klipstr

2018 Wonder FTB
EnerGT, I asked my neighbor the ham radio guru to make it. He had a very small gold plated socket that fit perfectly on the pin. He added a pigtail and I butt connected it to the original wire going to the Magnum inverter. I had tried jury rigging a socket from some stuff I had with unsatisfactory results. I wish I had an "actual klipstr" method for you! Maybe next time he's making me one in a couple of weeks I'll ask him to make ten of them? Then I can offer them free plus shipping and handling. One should also note that the connector used on the Xantrex is standard so one can probably find the correct plug and do this correctly. Xantrex offer one but figure they'll want a small fortune for it.

To the point made by hoosierrun and SS I used the Ignition Lock out setting. This setting works as follows: when there is a positive signal on the ACC pin then the inverter will function if you turn it on or off using the remote. If this signal does not exist then the inverter is NOT in standby mode. It is off drawing no power which is what you want when you turn off the master 12V switch in your coach. No parasitic load is the goal. Will it work the same if you have it set to Auto? I don't know. I didn't care. I wanted it to function as described using the Ignition Lock Out setting!

Thanks to Mackcs for the callout. Yes, his install went very well. As he points out there are some idiosyncrasies to get used to with his new system. That will take some time but I don't think any of them are show stoppers! As I posited in another post I do not like the fact that the Xantrex will not act as a 12V source for all things connected when shore power is available. I see no reason for the Xantrex inverter/charger to behave this way and will encourage them to consider a firmware upgrade to "fix" this. For now, though, it is working as designed.

I hope to start my own install week after next. To this point I do not have a bunch of experience with this configuration so find myself pondering what "must" be true about how it is operating. So far I think I understand why and how it's working the way it is!

PS I poked around Amazon a bit and found this:

Amazon.com: StarTech.com 6in 20 Pin Motherboard to 24 Pin ATX Power Adapter - M/F (ATX2024FM): Electronics

I think it might be the correct socket for the Xantrex. Will confirm in the next couple of days...
 
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SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
I plan on using Molex pin connectors on an upcoming inverter installation project I'm helping someone with. I have a big assortment box of connectors that has these but, here is a link to some, https://www.amazon.com/Molex-2-Circuits-Receptacle-Terminal-Standard/dp/B079NNS1LR/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2AK9DPTI56597&dchild=1&keywords=molex+connector+kit+2+pin&qid=1619974290&sprefix=molex+connec,aps,268&sr=8-5. I'll probably use a lighter and a hot glue stick to seal it in place. Lick you finger and the glue won't stick to it as you try and mold it in place.

That would be great if that inexpensive 20 pin Connector worked. Let us know!
 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
It's important to keep your Lithionics battery firmware updated. There were a number of improvements in SOC tracking and synchronizion to 100%. Lithionics is constantly testing, redesigning, and improving upon their batteries so you must remember to periodically check for firmware updates. For multiple Lithionics batteries, update one battery at a time, while the other batteries are on to provide power. Do not power off your entire bank. Here is the video explaining the update process, "Lithionics BMS Firmware Update" on YouTube,

 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
I have been getting a lot of questions about what other items can be run off the Lithionics 315ah battery and Xantrex 3000w Inverter while the air conditioner is running. Now that I did a test of my air conditioner operation and spent a lot of time interacting with Lvuman during his air conditioner testing, my answer has to be that the Lithionics/3000w inverter system is really only capable of one high draw item at a time. When the Air conditioner fan only is running, you could use the microwave, that's okay because fan operation not a high draw item (less than 35a). But when the air conditioner compressor kicks on it draws 155a-180a (depending on the size 13,500 or 15,000 btu unit and with no solar), so NO you can't run any other high draw item, like microwave, induction cooktop, Dometic 3 way refrigerator on electric, water heater on electric, electric coffee pot, or use any plug in 120vac appliance greater than 3-6a 120vac, which equates to 30-60a draw from the battery. When the air conditioner compressor is running you really have to be very cognizant of operating anything else! Lithionics doesn't recommend having more than 180-200a of demand on the battery at any given time. So my advice to anyone is turn off the air conditioner or just go to fan only mode when you need to use another high power draw item or the Inverter may just trip off due to low voltage. There can be a significant voltage drop between the battery and inverter when large loads are being supplied.

I didn't realize that I had my water heater on electric the very first time I tried my air conditioner run test and the air conditioner compressor would not come one. The water heater is 12a 120vac so that's about 120a draw off the battery/inverter. So it's understandable to me now that of course the system couldn't support the air conditioner compressor operation which pulls 155a from the battery. Lithionics doesn't recommend having more than 180a-200a of demand on the battery at any given time. I haven't run the Microwave or induction cooktop yet, so I don't know what they pull in amps, but I really just want to have the ability to run the Air conditioner to keep my dogs cool when we make stops on the days we spend driving from point A to B, and to have air conditioner operation for a road side emergency emergency or a loss of shore power event.

BTW, I'm changing my thinking on solar. I used to think it was really just for maintaining the batteries when parked between trips, solar power input while you are operating your system is quite helpful because it offsets the amps that the battery must supply. In other words if you have 35a of solar power coming in, as Lvuman did in his test, the the battery supply required is reduced, which takes pressure off it to be able to supply smaller things like the lights, tv, etc.
 

EnerGT

2020 LTV Unity MB
BTW, I'm changing my thinking on solar. I used to think it was really just for maintaining the batteries when parked between trips, solar power input while you are operating your system is quite helpful because it offsets the amps that the battery must supply. In other words if you have 35a of solar power coming in, as Lvuman did in his test, the the battery supply required is reduced, which takes pressure off it to be able to supply smaller things like the lights, tv, etc.
That is a great point. I had not thought of that.
 

DiverBob

2018 Unity TB
I’ve been helping friends with a 2016 UTB do a solar/inverter/battery installation. They chose Lithionics 125Ahr battery (2), Xantrex 2K inverter, and Renogy Solar panels (4x 100watt). Their electrical requirement is to be able to run the microwave off the batteries, no AC battery use planned. Also installation to use the existing electrical spaces. The 125 batteries fit under the step with little extra space. We got the new inverter in but had to remove the metal shield that separated the previous inverter from the rest of the compartment. They will replace the metal shield but it will have to be moved over a couple of inches more as we needed the space to accommodate the Victron 100-50 solar controller.
We ran into a snag where apparently one of the batteries is bad and Lithionics will be replacing it. I updated the firmware on one and found the other battery would only turn on for 2-3 seconds and then turn itself off. Looks like one of the internal battery banks is bad as it reads 2.09v vs 3.30v for the other 3 banks. We will add the replacement battery later. So now we are running the system off a single battery. Inverter installed, wired up and tested. Today we finish up wiring the solar panels, test them and look at the alternator charging side of things.
 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
That is a great point. I had not thought of that.
Lvuman's air conditioner testing on his 945ah Lithionics batteries convinced me of the importance of solar. Getting 7.25 hours of air conditioner operation is amazing! But equally eye opening is that about an hour of it was supplied by his 650w of solar. This demonstrates just how much solar can help with load management and as a power supply. Very impressive!
 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
I’ve been helping friends with a 2016 UTB do a solar/inverter/battery installation. They chose Lithionics 125Ahr battery (2), Xantrex 2K inverter, and Renogy Solar panels (4x 100watt). Their electrical requirement is to be able to run the microwave off the batteries, no AC battery use planned. Also installation to use the existing electrical spaces. The 125 batteries fit under the step with little extra space. We got the new inverter in but had to remove the metal shield that separated the previous inverter from the rest of the compartment. They will replace the metal shield but it will have to be moved over a couple of inches more as we needed the space to accommodate the Victron 100-50 solar controller.
We ran into a snag where apparently one of the batteries is bad and Lithionics will be replacing it. I updated the firmware on one and found the other battery would only turn on for 2-3 seconds and then turn itself off. Looks like one of the internal battery banks is bad as it reads 2.09v vs 3.30v for the other 3 banks. We will add the replacement battery later. So now we are running the system off a single battery. Inverter installed, wired up and tested. Today we finish up wiring the solar panels, test them and look at the alternator charging side of things.
Make sure you do firmware update on the Xantrex inverter and the Bluetooth remote display. I have previously posted a guide on that in this thread. You probably didn't have room for an inverter disconnect switch so I hope you took advantage of a recent discovery me and Klipstr made to use the Inverter ACC input connection and the ignition control settings to automatically turn off and on the inverter with the Leisure battery switch. We posted just above on that as well. I replaced the isolator solenoid with a Sterling DC-DC charger early on in this thread if you go way back you'll see that's fairly easy to do.
 

SpecE30

Member
I have been getting a lot of questions about what other items can be run off the Lithionics 315ah battery and Xantrex 3000w Inverter while the air conditioner is running. Now that I did a test of my air conditioner operation and spent a lot of time interacting with Lvuman during his air conditioner testing, my answer has to be that the Lithionics/3000w inverter system is really only capable of one high draw item at a time. When the Air conditioner fan only is running, you could use the microwave, that's okay because fan operation not a high draw item (less than 35a). But when the air conditioner compressor kicks on it draws 155a-180a (depending on the size 13,500 or 15,000 btu unit and with no solar), so NO you can't run any other high draw item, like microwave, induction cooktop, Dometic 3 way refrigerator on electric, water heater on electric, electric coffee pot, or use any plug in 120vac appliance greater than 3-6a 120vac, which equates to 30-60a draw from the battery. When the air conditioner compressor is running you really have to be very cognizant of operating anything else! Lithionics doesn't recommend having more than 180-200a of demand on the battery at any given time. So my advice to anyone is turn off the air conditioner or just go to fan only mode when you need to use another high power draw item or the Inverter may just trip off due to low voltage. There can be a significant voltage drop between the battery and inverter when large loads are being supplied.

I didn't realize that I had my water heater on electric the very first time I tried my air conditioner run test and the air conditioner compressor would not come one. The water heater is 12a 120vac so that's about 120a draw off the battery/inverter. So it's understandable to me now that of course the system couldn't support the air conditioner compressor operation which pulls 155a from the battery. Lithionics doesn't recommend having more than 180a-200a of demand on the battery at any given time. I haven't run the Microwave or induction cooktop yet, so I don't know what they pull in amps, but I really just want to have the ability to run the Air conditioner to keep my dogs cool when we make stops on the days we spend driving from point A to B, and to have air conditioner operation for a road side emergency emergency or a loss of shore power event.

BTW, I'm changing my thinking on solar. I used to think it was really just for maintaining the batteries when parked between trips, solar power input while you are operating your system is quite helpful because it offsets the amps that the battery must supply. In other words if you have 35a of solar power coming in, as Lvuman did in his test, the the battery supply required is reduced, which takes pressure off it to be able to supply smaller things like the lights, tv, etc.
This is interesting. I did some similar testing of my system (Xantrex 3000W, Lithionics 315Ah, Solar 880W) just to understand the consequences if I do it by mistake. In this case I switched on 2 high power devices. The A/C was running (Coleman Mach 10) and I switched on the convection oven. Solar was giving at this time about 30A and the draw from the Lithionics battery was about 240A. I let it run for perhaps 20s-30s and everything was running very stable. I did this testing only after having received a backup class-T fuse since the 240A was awfully close to the nominal 250A fuse specification. My learning is that with a second battery I could probably run two high loads, but obviously it is pushing the boundaries, and that by accident switching on a second high power load is not immediately bad.
Overall I am happy with my 880W solar power. I have seen 100W at a very grey day, 500W with some sun and even 1,000W around noon with a lot of sun.
I want to add something regarding voltage drop between battery and inverter. I have seen people buying ring terminals from Amazon and using an arbitrary crimping tool. I was fairly diligent by only buying ring terminals from the same manufacturer as the crimping tool. I consider this as a system and in testing I could pull out the cable from a cheap unknown ring terminal when I crimped it with my Thomas & Betts tool where with a Thomas & Betts ring terminal I was not able to pull the cable out. I also made sure the ring terminal has the exact diameter of the mount where it attaches too. Further the gauge 4/0 cable is of high quality and as short as possible, since this all helps with the voltage drop between inverter and battery.
 
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DiverBob

2018 Unity TB
Make sure you do firmware update on the Xantrex inverter and the Bluetooth remote display. I have previously posted a guide on that in this thread. You probably didn't have room for an inverter disconnect switch so I hope you took advantage of a recent discovery me and Klipstr made to use the Inverter ACC input connection and the ignition control settings to automatically turn off and on the inverter with the Leisure battery switch. We posted just above on that as well. I replaced the isolator solenoid with a Sterling DC-DC charger early on in this thread if you go way back you'll see that's fairly easy to do.
Thanks for the heads up. I’ve been loosely following this discussion but it has become useful for Kathy’s installation since she got similar equipment as you installed. Unfortunately the 2016 model does not have the wire that can be used to power the ACC input. I checked the compartment and drawings but apparently that option came later. We discussed what options she has for tapping into a fused 12vdc wire but that will require fishing a wire down to the compartment. She is investigating this option as I’m typing!
It doesn’t look like the Xantrex XC Freedom 2K inverter charger has the ability to update the firmware based on searching all the Xantrex documents I can find. The XC Pro versions have a USB connection in the inverter that can be used to update firmware but that option isn’t available on the XC models. Xantex documentation can be pretty convoluted even for me and I have an electrical background.
Since I will be leaving tomorrow we will save the Sterling Power installation for another day. We have a LTV Rally in a couple of weeks so she is bringing the replacement battery with her and we will install it then. We made up battery cables for putting the new battery in parallel so that should be a pretty quick and easy setup.
We spent some time testing the system operation, no issued identified. After watching the the Lithonics shunt software I have questions about how accurate that shunt is. Although the display shows tenths of a amp, all we saw was whole numbers when it changes. With the battery on and the inverter off the shunt shows 0.0 amps despite having the base DC loads running. Turning on the inverter pushed the display to 2.0 amps. I’m used to the Victron shunt which is shows tenths of an amp usage.
 

Mackcs

2018 LTV MB
A note on the firmware updating thoughts. When Klipster did my upgrade (read the post above of the equipment used) he had a failing of the bluetooth to the xantrex 3000 and it locked him out and basically fried the bluetooth. This happened when he tried to do a firmware update.
I am concerned about doing any updates. Any thoughts are of course always appreciated. I'm learning more about the system as I use it.

Also, did a stop today and in reference to SS comments about what to run and what not to run if the A/C is going to be used.(No shore Power)
Had the 3 way frig set to battery manually which I do when lots of sun available. (600W solar) But left my pup in the van and wanted to make sure it did not get over 78 degrees so set the thermostat to come on automatically. In retrospect (to SS comments) it would have been better to set 3 way frig to propane.
 

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