Where Do You Start for a Lithium Battery and Coach Electrical Upgrade?

[SSTraveler]

Your Xantrex inverter install looks stunning! Nice job!

Thanks so much, I wasn't sure how that copper colored Aluminum sheeting would look, but it was on Clearance at HD and virtually free so I went with it. It does look much nicer than an exterior Inverter bay needs to look, and I am pleased with how it's turning out.

 

[SSTraveler]

I forgot to mention that I used 1" aluminum angle stock to make the mounting bracket for the separation wall between the inverter bay and the rest of the compartment. I just screwed the angle stock pieces into the compartment to make a frame. So then at the very end of my installation, I'll just screw a piece of the copper colored Aluminum sheeting to that frame.

 

[msmolow]

Will your remote or app allow you to reboot? You may not need the physical button.

 

[SSTraveler]

Will your remote or app allow you to reboot? You may not need the physical button.

I don't know right now, but will learn all about how to use the remote controls and the App. But regardless, I tried to think ahead to be able to access that small circuit breaker reset button if I need to in the future.

 

[msmolow]

Unless it's to reset an internal breaker. I think that needs the button.

 

[Klipstr]

Actually, I looked this us as I'll never be able to get to mine. Here is what it says about the reset button between the two fans:

"A supplementary protector with reset button provides overload protection for the Freedom XC PROGFCI Kit (PN: 808-9817) (sold separately) option. Press to recover from an overload condition. In a hard wired installation, the supplementary protector does not protect output wiring."

So I'm thinking if you are using the AC output option of the inverter and not the optional GFCI, you will never need to press this button.

 

[SSTraveler]

Here is a video by Nate, Explorist Life, on a complete installation covering many of the things I've discussed in the thread. Nate is a very knowledgeable and provides excellent reference videos and web site information and tutorials, https://www.explorist.life/how-series-vs-parallel-wired-solar-panels-affects-amps-and-volts/, that covers everything you might want to do from an Electrical upgrade perspective.

 

[SSTraveler]

Here is a simple video, showing why switching out your Leisure GoPower PWM controller for a MPPT Controller gets you up to 30% more power from your solar panels and offers a higher quality battery charging capability. A MPPT charge controller and glass monocrystalline panels are a must, in my opinion, for the highest quality and most efficient solar system. I selected the Victron Smart Controller 100v/30a, https://www.amazon.com/SmartSolar-M...9Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=, for my 400w glass solar panel installation. Changing out the GoPower is a very straightforward replacement. I previously posted a lot of information on that in this post, https://m.facebook.com/story/graphq...wMDAwMDMzNTI5NzY4NDpWSzo0OTU0NjgzNjcxMjcyMDI5. If you are interested in expanding to more than 400w then by a 100v/50a sized MPPT solar charge controller.

Many have been asking me for the easiest method to replace their GoPower so here is what I came up with. The easiest method would be to just install a switch and corresponding connectors, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08623N19Z/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=AXDXPO2RICYQJ&psc=1 and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MPMJRY1/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A205VE1PUGXUMQ&psc=1, on the positive wire from the Solar panels just before the new solar controller using this switch and screw terminal connectors. Just use a lighter to add a little heat to make the heat shrink smaller or just wrap with black electrical tape to cover the metal body of the connector. Take the positive solar wire and cut it 6" or so back, correct length between switch and controller. Then add a connector to two ends so you can wire the switch in just before the controller and wire the new controller in place. Just mount the Victron controller to the back of a cover panel (made from a thin sheet of plastic or wood) and install the switch on the front side. Since the Victron is Bluetooth it doesn't need it to be visible. Screw the new cover panel, using existing GoPower controller mounting screws/holes. I hope this makes it easier to add a switch and new Victron controller.

 

[JHMooney]

Great job and thank you for taking the time to document it. I'm going to tackle the inverter install next weekend.

Did you find any easy way to get the partition between the inverter and the storage bay out?

Are the terminal posts on the Lithtronics batteries 5/16?

I've never used VHB tape, there are so many different kinds I'm not sure which 3M number to use. Of course I'm looking for high bond strength but also something that will hold up to the desert heat when it gets into the 120's. What would you suggest?

 

[SSTraveler]

I didn't have an inverter bay, so maybe someone else will chime in with tips to remove the wall. DiverBob may have explained how he did it in his electrical upgrade thread. Search for it. The Lithionics battery bolt is metric M8-1.25, so you use 5/16" lugs for the cables. The Xantrex inverter also takes 5/16" lugs for the battery and case ground connections. See post #89, https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/93929/page-5. I believe 3M 5952 VHB tape is the best for adhesion and high temperatures. Here is a chart I posted before when someone questioned choice of 5952 over 4950. I just finished my inverter installation and am posting about it here in #109, https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/93929/page-6. Good luck on you inverter installation.

 

[msmolow]

I used a multi-tool, large blade screwdriver, and a rubber mallet to remove the Magnum support bracket. The same should work for the divider.

I used 5952 VHB tape in combination with 3M 111 Adhesion Promoter and 3M marine 5200 sealant for my rigid solar panel support.

 

[JHMooney]

Thank you! I did find Diver Bob's thread regarding removing the panel and after asking this question found your (SST) post with the lug size. I appreciate the feedback on the VHB tape from both of you. This will be my first VHB experience and if it works as well as folks here say it does I'll probably be using it often.

 

[SSTraveler]

I've turned this thread into a guide so people can have a reference document take away.

 

[SSTraveler]

I realized some of the images can't be read because of the compression so here is an uncompressed version.

 

[SSTraveler]

Lvuman is in a unique position to do tests with different configurations since he has 3 Lithionics 315ah batteries. So here is a summary of the recent results of three of his tests: 1-Lithionics 315ah battery ran his 15,000 btu Dometic Penguin ll AC (with EasyStart) in around 95° temperatures for 2 hours and 4 minutes. 2-Lithionics 315ah batteries ran his AC for for 4 hours and 48 minutes, and 3-Lithionics 315ah batteries ran it for 6 hours and 32 minutes. When he did the tests and included his 650w of solar in full sun, it added an extra 45 minutes to the AC run time. So his rule of thumb is to plan on 2 hours AC run time from each Lithionics 315ah battery and for the solar contribution, if in full sun, would be add an extra run time of 30 minutes for 400w and 45 minutes for 600w. You can't always count on sun so knowing what you can expect on battery only is most valuable. This information certainly helps inform those just planning a Lithionics Lithium battery upgrade to understand battery capacity and what you can expect for performance periods. Thanks Lvuman, you are awesome for taking the time to do all this testing!

 

[SSTraveler]

I saw this in an RV magazine, a Camping Test to help you figure out how much battery capacity you need. Its simplicity is what struck a chord with me. It is the kind of test anyone can do and it makes battery capacity tangible and understandable. Remember lead acid batteries are Flooded Wet Cell and AGM batteries, it is recommended for both that you not take them below 50% State of Charge (SOC) or not less than 12.1v. AGM batteries can be discharged to 25% SOC without damage, but never take Flooded Wet Cell batteries that low. So that means if you have 210 amp hours (ah) of lead acid batteries then you can only use 105 ah to be at 50% SOC. As the article says, If you can't make it through the night using your batteries the way you want for your camping style then you need more battery capacity (translated in to ah). This is why lithium batteries are so popular. They can be used down to 10% and even zero (with the Lithionics NeverDie Reserve). I have a Lithionics 315ah lithium battery and that means I can use 284ah (10% SOC) as I need to through the night. So for example let's say a typical evening/night period (no solar power) is 12 hours (7pm-7am). I definitely want to be able to run my Isotherm compressor refrigerator (2ah), 2 CPAP machines (6ah each) off my 3000w Inverter (3ah). So that means I need 17ah x 12 hours = 204ah total use from my battery, which would be at 35% SOC by 7am in the morning. If I wanted to make coffee before the sun comes up then I have to factor that use in as well, but I still have capacity (about 80ah) for quick use of the microwave or to perk a pot of coffee. Of course if you want to run fans or even the air conditioner then all these uses drive your ultimate battery capacity needs. Try this test for yourself and see what you discover about your battery capacity needs!

You can read the full article here, https://www.rv.com/servicing-care/charging-ahead/.

 

[SSTraveler]

I just stumbled on this Lithionics Factory Tour Video by FitRV.
Watch "Making Lithium Batteries! A Lithionics Factory Tour" on YouTube,

 

[SSTraveler]

It is easy to see why Lithionics can pack more amp hours per square inch into their battery. Watch "RV Lithium Battery Face-Off: Lithionics vs "Brand B"" on YouTube,

 

[DiverBob]

It is easy to see why Lithionics can pack more amp hours per square inch into their battery. Watch "RV Lithium Battery Face-Off: Lithionics vs "Brand B"" on YouTube,

I really dislike videos like this that are comparing apples to oranges and trying to make a point. Comparing a 315Ahr battery to a 100Ahr battery is disingenuous. A better comparison is comparing the internals of a lithonics 125Ahr battery to the BB battery (big point made that BB uses a plastic case where the Lithonics of the same size is also plastic). Of course batteries of different sizes will have different sized wiring and connections, this alone doesn’t make one better or worse than the other. I have an extensive electrical background and although good points are made in the video, they are heavily slanted towards the Lithionics battery vs their competitor.
I like the Lithonics batteries and if I had known I would end up with 600 Ahr of lithium I would have used a couple of their larger batteries and saved some space. However the BB batteries I do have are perfectly suited for the same applications as the Lithonics, they will take up more space due to the design of using cylindrical vs rectangular cells.

 

[SpecE30]

I totally agree with that. In their blog: "https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/rv-lithium-battery-face-off-lithionics-vs-brand-b/" they just repeat everything Lithionics was telling them. I would wish TheFitRV would stay a little bit more neutral. I really like my Lithionics battery but I dislike phony assessments or comparisons.

I really dislike videos like this that are comparing apples to oranges and trying to make a point. Comparing a 315Ahr battery to a 100Ahr battery is disingenuous. A better comparison is comparing the internals of a lithonics 125Ahr battery to the BB battery (big point made that BB uses a plastic case where the Lithonics of the same size is also plastic). Of course batteries of different sizes will have different sized wiring and connections, this alone doesn’t make one better or worse than the other. I have an extensive electrical background and although good points are made in the video, they are heavily slanted towards the Lithionics battery vs their competitor.
I like the Lithonics batteries and if I had known I would end up with 600 Ahr of lithium I would have used a couple of their larger batteries and saved some space. However the BB batteries I do have are perfectly suited for the same applications as the Lithonics, they will take up more space due to the design of using cylindrical vs rectangular cells.