diesel particle filter 2007 and beyond

topless

Wichita, KS
I bought my Sprinter because it has a turbo. I like turbo's and a large heavy vehicle benefits from a turbo diesel.
Actually, I like all kinds of turbo diesels. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, they can make huge power and be just as fast as a gasoline engine.
I do like my Sprinter's fuel economy, but if it couldn't go when and where I wanted, I wouldn't own it.
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Someone had better run a photo of the DPF on the US Sprinter,so I can see just what set up you have.
Can some one do this or not? I need a high definition photo of the exhaust system please.
I took these while at a dealership, trying to order a 2007 2500 144 WB Cargo model. (In case you're wondering, the order was unsuccessful due to software issues with the order system, but I'll try again in a day or two).

Regarding these photographs: They are portions of the exhaust system on a 3500 chassis unit, for sale in Seattle WA USA. The final photo is the face donor unit - the white front left quarter panel. I believe it's a 2007 sample because of the controversial molding.

I was uncertain which component is the DPF (or even if I managed to photograph it), so I photographed a number of pieces in hopes of capturing the critter in digital glory.

Richard, you're obviously well versed in Sprinter anatomy so I'll leave it to you to figure out which bits are what, let you identify the components and make comments as appropriate. I look forward to confirmation or confusion regarding what's available in the Sunburnt Country.

Speaking of Australia, is it true that Harold Holt, Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa are sharing a flat deep within the Principality of Hutt River?




-Jon
 

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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Hello Jon
Thank you for taking the time and effort to take a few pics.it is appreciated very much.
I will show you a local unit this one is a manual so it does not have the heat shield where automatics do there is an odd section I'll check tomorrow on the auto to compare apples to apples with.The main recycling unit appears to be the same, but that's where its stops our system is entirely stainless steel pipe and mufflers it appears you have a resonator at the rear of the unit you photographed! but the main unit is missing??? unless there is a slight variation of difference! between long wheel base and mid based units I was under the impression there are two more mufflers behind the particle unit, I'll have to make sure of this before shoot DCX:idunno:
What is noticeable, No rust proofing or sound deadening , Please don't tell me this is an extra option?
just to avail confusion there should be a total of 4 units from the end of the exhaust manifold to the last section in front of the rear axle,
Compare these Jon, does something appear wrong with the photos you took in comparisons to an Australian and these are identical to Euro Sprinters too. no difference between them.
Now for a little fun prince of Hutt River Principality is a separate nation to Australia. Prince Lenard has his own bank too, and never pays taxes unless he imports from Australia,:smilewink: import duties our government always make you pay and pay.
Elvis was last seen down on the other Principality just off Zeehan on the west cost of Queeenstown another mining out post of Tasmania, as Elvis was under the Royal protection of the Duke of Avram , unfortunately he was locked up for printing his own supply of Money, as the Tasmanian Government sent in the troppers, and blew him back to kingdom come so Elvis is now down on Bruny island as I saw him today! TRUE I would never lie:shifty: I know this as a fact Honest! Elvis is a sea food nut case, as he always has his eye out for the one eyed sea food basket, must be the fishy smell:lol:
As for poor old Harold Holt he went walkabout back in the other Century for those with a holding memory that can still think backwards to the Good Ol' Days, in fact to tell you the truth, the guy went for a bit of a swim locals say The Yanks got him and he's locked up in Area 51! because he was about to expose the myth of aliens "taking control of the government" Bush is one of them , but don't tell any one I said so ! Or I'll end up in Guantanamo bay for five years, then I'll have to sign a plea bargain to get out:shhh: Yeah however officially we were told Harold went for swim, in shark infested custard :D
As for Jimmy Hoffa I have not had the pleasure of meeting him as of yet, Strange you can normally hear an American a mile off:D I suppose I may be going deaf though:popcorn:
Richard
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Arne

German Sprinter Owner
Hello, the pictures of the DPF you made, are perfect.

the Problem with this filter is:

It s is burnig free every 2000 km ( nearly). sorry, i'm from germany. The sound when the filter is burnig free is not good. At 1950 rpm, the car sounds crazy, its is like the exhaust-system seems to be damaged. It lasts about 15 to 20 minutes, then it stops.
That is the sound at an V6 Diesel engine, like i have. German DC-Houses ( Werkstatt) dont know enough to declare it to their clients.
The sound is absolutely normal and the filter gets a temperature at 800 Grad Celsius.
So dont become fear, it is absolutely normal.

Again, sorry, for my bad english,

greetings from your new member from germany,

Arne:idunno:
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Hello Arne
Both of my Sprinters are fully imported from your end of Europe they are not the Australian variations however they have the identical exhaust set up.
I have not experienced any noises as of yet But we use only top end Diesel
Temperatures are at 100+ degree on the V6 as its up in The northern territory of Australia, my older 2005 Sprinter which also has the same filter [modified to 2006 Specs gets a slight vibration at 1500 to 1800 rpm in the exhaust for a few seconds, then it stabilizes. ambient temps are moderate as we do not have cold winters or Autumn periods stable at 10 C
I assume your running on B20 Diesel now and paying much more for fuel with Vat hitting towards 19% my vans run ULSD non bio mix fuels
Your English is much better than My German and welcome to the forum .
Richard.
PS how many mufflers do you have behind the DPF There should be a long one about 500 cm behind the DPF and another short one oval shaped just in front of the rear differential:thinking:
 
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Arne

German Sprinter Owner
@ Altered Sprinter,

Richard, thank you very much for your reply, im not shure, whether it is alllowed in your forum, to post a link ?
In germany many users of sprinters are not afraid about the sound, when the DPF is burnig free. :thinking:

I set a link, when it is not allowed, take it off. :censored: :

http://www.2yoo.de/dr/sprinter/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6891

greetings from germany, with best regards,

PS: There is only one muffler behind the DPF. Its length will be about 50cm.

Arne
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Interesting Arne maybe its the long wheel base units that have two mufflers I'm checking that out toady,Looks like the DPF will become an issue in the States with vibrations, Ph! well we have to complain about something, damed if I know why mine have not experienced this problem as of yet, but then again time will tell.
Post as many links as you like, but few of us can speak German or I'm very limited to basic German.
I think you may become a valuable source for the boys in the US when it comes down to parts, so watch out you may become an exporter.
Some parts, are not obtainable in the US and Australia either.
Richard:thumbup:
 
sikwan,

thanks for the translator. i did not know you could do this.
also by reading these german posts i finally understand the freeburn
and how much heat it can create. there have been some dpf's(not sprinter} that have started grasfires because they were next to highgrass when burn started. (ps. these were manually triggered burns not one that happen
when veicle moving,. }

again thanks for the translator

gerry
 

sikwan

06 T1N Can
No problem Gerry. You bring up the most interesting of topics. Learning everything I could learn about the gas vs diesel version especially about the DPF. :thumbup:

Seek
 

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
@ Altered Sprinter,

Richard, thank you very much for your reply, im not shure, whether it is alllowed in your forum, to post a link ?
In germany many users of sprinters are not afraid about the sound, when the DPF is burnig free. :thinking:

I set a link, when it is not allowed, take it off. :censored: :

http://www.2yoo.de/dr/sprinter/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6891

greetings from germany, with best regards,

PS: There is only one muffler behind the DPF. Its length will be about 50cm.

Arne

Herzliche gruesse Arne! I read the entire link thread (in German) until my eyeballs ached from fatique and my sides ached from laughter-it was fascinating. I am stunned to hear German Sprinter owners complaining of inept, uncaring, poorly trained Mercedes dealership personnel. Sounded like a typical US Sprinter dealerbashing thread. What is the fatherland coming to? I particularly enjoyed the varied reactions to most owners first encounter with the dpf regeneration cycle. Most wet their pants, pulled off the road and expected their "kiste" to go up in flames. One owner described the sound as a V8 like rumble. All complained of stink and smoke in the van. Most interesting was the variation of encountered regeneration intervals-one posting suggested that certain driving conditions achieved critical particulate conversion temps sans afterburn enrichment and the accompaning dramatic symptoms. A great link to a great thread. Viellen Dank. Doktor A
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Hello Jon
Thank you for taking the time and effort to take a few pics.it is appreciated very much.
What is noticeable, No rust proofing or sound deadening , Please don't tell me this is an extra option?
just to avail confusion there should be a total of 4 units from the end of the exhaust manifold to the last section in front of the rear axle,
Compare these Jon, does something appear wrong with the photos you took in comparisons to an Australian and these are identical to Euro Sprinters too. no difference between them.
You're welcome.

Extra option: Amongst the order-codes provided to me by that Dodge dealership, I cannot find a code indicating sound-deadening, exhaust-system treatment as "standard" or "optional" to include or delete. So an Australian or EU exhaust standard doesn't appear to be an option in any form in the States.

"no difference between them:" do you mean there's no difference between the Euro and AU Sprinters? Or do you mean there's no difference between US and both Australian & Euro Sprinters?

I think you mean the latter and if so, I agree. The lack of sound-deadening materials and the presence of surface corrosion on the new Chassis unit I photographed, indicate - at least to me - that there are subtle differences between that unit and what has been delivered elsewhere.

Are North American customers getting inferior engineering or manufacturing? I don't know.

Find a Euro or an AU model manufactured in the last 2 or 3 months and compare that to the photograph.

Maybe it's a world-wide tightening on specs to save money.

Nothing's perfect. At the end of the day, all consumers (like us) are outsiders making educated guesses about things we cannot know for fact.

The persons who can answer all our questions are hitherforto are non-posting employees involved in all the processes that take raw materials and turn them into a Sprinter.

On a different note, I really enjoyed your update on the whereabouts of famous persons of historical significance.

-Jon
 

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
You're welcome.

The lack of sound-deadening materials and the presence of surface corrosion on the new Chassis unit I photographed, indicate - at least to me - that there are subtle differences between that unit and what has been delivered elsewhere.

Are North American customers getting inferior engineering or manufacturing? I don't know.
-Jon
The cab/chassis model is devoid of PVC sound deadening/corrosion coating to allow ease of installation for upfitters of customer spec. equipment. Doktor A
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Hi Jon
Ok I went back to the MB site again to compare exhaust systems
MWB units have the large diameter round muffler for added engine compression/
nothing behind that one after except the pipe.
The long wheel base units with overhang has an extra small oval unit as you showed in your photo.
The system has extensive pipe holders in place to prevent vibration, Now I know what I did to my old one and where to put the brackets, so now I know my old one was getting a very slight vibration at the 1500 to 1900 RPM range because I should have changed up or down a gear, my fault.
The only part I can not work out in your picture as to what is this unit in a galvanized shade do?
I looked on our autos and it does not show in your photo as such but its in a different position as a heat shield not the one above the floor, so I'm at a loss as to what this is> maybe its the angle of the photo thats thrown me off.
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I can assure you there is no difference between the mechanical make up of Sprinters with the exceptions of options etc, The Australian Sprinters Cargo vans are manufactured in Brazil Argentina so slight variations may appear,
Yours are sent CKD from Stuttgart or the other factory one makes vans the other passenger units etc, so there is a local content , little things may be different, but overall they should be the same.
I'm not so sure about the US version of the DPF they look the same but if the main exhaust directly behind the DPF is not on the US Sprinters , then they are the older units for 2003-2004 This may explain the difference to ours and in main stream Europe, even Europe is not fully operating on Euro 5 specs.
Your Bin specs although the same as Euro specs for emissions are still varying in the lesser 45 states , I think if I'm right the Sprinter warranty for compliance emissions is still on the Bin 3 specs this is equal to Euro 3 and 4 specs as the class of vehicle it falls into there are still exemptions for the H/D trucks in the US for compliance, passenger vehicles in the smaller varieties are on a higher standard.
Our Sprinters are euro V to euro V1 so maybe the extra exhaust is part of the EPA requirements for compliance.
At worst if you have only the small oval one at the rear, were going to get a lot of complaints from vibration when the filter starts to clean itself.
Going on what the German site is saying MB don't want to know nothing then here we go again, :thinking: It is the same here no one knows or wants to talk about it where sales guys are concerned this applies to GM and Ford too as they are using older DPFs and they are not supposedly to be on 2006 plated models I can see trouble brewing down under on this one.
Andy said the chassis is not coated on the cab chassis units! they are down here, so that's a short cut on costs and a potential issue with rust in the salt zones latter on, I assume the vans are coated.
I was just thinking that plate could be part of the option for PTO ? any thoughts.
Richard
Updating on the filter inquisition
as to dealer options also the questionable DC disclaimer on 100.000 miles
Because we have threads jumping around on this question and it's too hard and late in the day to pull it all into one thread, I'll sticky it in here.
Australia has Euro V and V1 regulations for exhaust emissions ADR EPA based on UN Emission standards similar to European and Japanese and in part California's emission mandates, to keep it simple we are already in advance for 2009 requirements for EuroV1 requirements for both fuel and emission standards.
US regs are identical from the EPA side in the US, of which they are referred to as Bin standards this incorporates emission controls and fuel requirements along with provisions for both standard, and urea based particulate systems.
in the photos you will observe what I have stated before particulate schedules ranging up to 10 years cycles Euro is the same as to US cycles, only different it drops from 110 thousand miles to 100 thousand miles to 90 thousand miles! 'There are no official exemptions for this in fact as to the original standards for compliance it should remain at 110 thousand miles not in the ninety range. The only reason it has dropped is because of fuel standards this is where Federal regulators give refineries exemptions , this is also mentioned in the following format below.
I think you may have a early problem with the particulate filter if the main standard Muffler is not fitted on the Sprinters, I hope I am wrong in my analysis.as the US has Bin Standards for H/D Diesel engines under Bin 2 regs set for 2003-2004 for the M/D to H/D class of commercial rated vehicles. Bin 5 is not due to 2009 bin 6 2012
But there will be changes sooner as to yesterdays supreme court rulings over the EPA and Government interference to the US clean air act for pollution controls 'Green House Gas emissions"
re servicing of the DPF can only be done under strict safe work place conditions , ten years I'd say they would have to be disposed of as to there eventually being a use by date on the unit for multiple reasons.

Richard
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
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As this standard is current I hope you understand what I have tried to explain in other posts, there are issues in the states that should have been sorted out years ago, The EPA is responsible for their inaction of non regulating, their own standards, as the US Government is responsible for preventing the advanced emission requirements by stalling and giving extended upon extended exemptions to manufactures. it's like your walking a tight rope, one hand is tied behind your back! 'and the others down his pants' :shifty: most causes to breakdowns are fuel and oil related, , now go and buy a new Sprinter and keep Andy busy.
Richard
 
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kkanuck

LUV my T1N
Richard,

Where did you put this "bracket" you mention above on your old one?


Is there a link?

I have a vibration sound on my 2004 at 70 mph, which is about 2650-2750 rpm's, is this what you solved on your old one with the brackets you mentioned?


Cheers,

Tibor
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Hi Tibor
I should have been more specific
On My older 2005 MWB Unit the original system of the exhaust line was taken off and the standard particulate filter installed, but I re used the older secondary muffler all three foot long, but I did not really think of a possiable vibration from resonance, which was why I have a slight vibration at the lower RPM level, however it's only because I am using a manual trans and was sometimes too lazy to change gear to compensate from the stall level at the low rpm range, in other words I should up shift or down shift it happens at traffic lights so its my fault, it was only when I really looked at how the new Sprinters are set up I realized where the extra mounts should be to prevent this as the chassis is as similar as the old one, so it's an easy fix over Easter even though I'm working I need to do it as the van has now hit the 36 thousand range of kilometers , the oil lubricity has dropped to 70% efficient so an oil change is finally due, 21 months that Mobil one synthetic Delvac MX extra lasted it raised the bar well past expectations this is the oil for the new sprinters MB 228.3/3/229.1 Euro specs 15-40 or Delvac MX 15-40 for particulate filters and works as well with Blutec
So there is no link this was a one off custom modification for Tasmania it will be interesting to see whats at the bottom of the oil filter :thinking: as the hour rate of 500 hours has gone long ago a more noticeable smell is coming from the crankcase, so I'll do it before I take it to Mercedes for a main service.
Richard
PS your vibration is from the auto unit I still say if the tail shaft was locked into a bearing saddle mid way along the shaft some of this vibration you have would go away forever, My direction is to thoughts of resonating being set up by vibration, But it only my unqualified opinion , Manuals did not have the problem s you had with the auto trans.
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
FORD
Fixed or repaired daily
On a quite nite you can hear a Ford rusting away in the Garage:smilewink:
A Ford with a built in flame thrower, that's neat you can start a grass fire cook ya' toast or warm your Buns on a cold night
Free options too Wonder why Mercedes didn't think of that one:thinking:
Nar just lousy workmanship faulty switch on speed control caused a fuel leak and Bong you have a hot to trot Ford.
Nothing on the filter past the tail pipe to stop the fuel dump from igniting either.
Richard
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BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
Anyone who pays that kinda money to have a stealership replace that component is an idiot with a capital I.

I've yanked and chopped emissions BS outta vehicles in the past and I certainly wouldn't hesitate to do it again if need be. :thumbup:
I know some folks do this sort of thing. I am sorry for it.
 

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