diesel particle filter 2007 and beyond

i posted parts of this earlier and some of my comments have been misinterpreted.

starting in 2007 ethe EPA rules on diesel fuel emissions has
drastically changed.

all new diesel vehicles MUST have a dpf{diesel particle filter} that
replaces the muffler and traps exhaust emissions dirty particles.
unfortunetly this device on a sprinter fills up at approximatly 90,000 miles
as of right know the sprinter vans is not cleanable and must be replaced.
a poster at the yahoo site who works at a dealer says the price of this is
1560. dollars.
if you keep your vehicle 400,000 miles you will have to pay this at least 3
times. possibly cheaper to buy a gas engine and replace at 200,000 miles.
no dealer seems to know if this is true. dodges site says is a maintenance item. warranty is just for failure up to 100,miles. gerry
 

michigandon

New member
Anyone who pays that kinda money to have a stealership replace that component is an idiot with a capital I.

I've yanked and chopped emissions BS outta vehicles in the past and I certainly wouldn't hesitate to do it again if need be. :thumbup:
 
i can't speak for your for your state but mine checks emmissions
every year. also it"s illegal to alter emissions equipment


gerry
 

topless

Wichita, KS
They don't here, at least for now.
I guess there's a good reason I'm not looking at '07's. At some point, I'd be breakin the law.:smirk:
 

sikwan

06 Tin Can
i can't speak for your for your state but mine checks emmissions
every year. also it"s illegal to alter emissions equipment
All diesels are exempt here in California for emissions testing. What state are you in?

Thanks,
Seek
 

poolmike

'05 2500 SHC
It won't be long before diesel emission testing is nationwide. It is in the plans here in PA. Just another $$$$$ scam for the gubberment.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Thinking hard on this one today:thinking:
Why did I purchase a 2006 V6 Diesel Sprinter when I have to replace a non cleaning particulate Filter?

Seriously the above postings have had me in an uncomfortable mind of thought, as to the fact I would never have purchased My Sprinter or put one on MY 2005 Sprinter

Someone had better run a photo of the DPF on the US Sprinter,so I can see just what set up you have.
Can some one do this or not? I need a high definition photo of the exhaust system please.

Why
I think your running a first generation particle filter system for Euro 2 and 3 Specs .
There is a question in my mind as to why the Mobil one oil specs are different to Euro specs for a particulate filter it appears the US is not set up for current Euro 5 specifications in a commercial class vehicle such as the Dodge Sprinter which still has exemptions in place until ford and GM can catch up. There is also an EPA problem in the five most advanced states for emission standards as to which catalyst is to be used the logistics of disposal is a logistical problem because of the size of the USA
there was an argument of which one because of the Metal content again a carcinogenic is involved from the storage of soot being deep buried as to it's long term active life after disposal of the waste products.
I have to go back into archives to refresh on this one so another weekend of thought is looming up again,
Here is the reasoning.
Australian and European Sprinters have a life long particulate filter this is the same set up as Blutec for Euro 6 which The states is not ready for so politics are playing games here as to it's suitability in the States, Bluetec I know how this works its 95% emission free the EPA upped the anti to bin 12 specs which state 98% only problem is no one else can achieve this standard for Diesel engines as of yet as its for 2012 in the US.
I'll run up an exact format as to how the DPF works for a 2006 Sprinter that has the same set up as Blutec where the Sprinter has a dry cell burn the Blutec uses a water based system to cool down the hot gases and deposit the balance of fine ash and soots into a serviceable filter trap, The sprinter has a computer assist the same as Blutec to order up a higher or lower burn to control the particle waste , the scram cat recycles the soot up to one kilo a week to a state where its 95% effective with waste soot at the end of the exhaust pipe, Also the entire system is stainless steel.
Now Iv'e let the cat out of the bag , and hope I'm wrong in my thoughts, but by week-end out, I'll have it together.
Bt the way I have the CD from Mercedes-Benz that shows in graphic detail as to how it works , If I can decode it I'll run it up through you tube
as its has a copyright on it but it is for general use, just a dealer thing the clients are supposed to be shown , when buying a new Sprinter, funny thing is no one bothers, I wounder why?
Richard







 
Last edited:

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
i posted parts of this earlier and some of my comments have been misinterpreted.

starting in 2007 ethe EPA rules on diesel fuel emissions has
drastically changed.

all new diesel vehicles MUST have a dpf{diesel particle filter} that
replaces the muffler and traps exhaust emissions dirty particles.
unfortunetly this device on a sprinter fills up at approximatly 90,000 miles
as of right know the sprinter vans is not cleanable and must be replaced.
a poster at the yahoo site who works at a dealer says the price of this is
1560. dollars.
if you keep your vehicle 400,000 miles you will have to pay this at least 3
times. possibly cheaper to buy a gas engine and replace at 200,000 miles.
no dealer seems to know if this is true. dodges site says is a maintenance item. warranty is just for failure up to 100,miles. gerry
There is a LOT of hysteria on this subject-let's set the record straight. The '07 Sprinter diesel particulate filter (part# 68011959AA) is indeed retail priced at $1562.00. BUT- much as the earlier Sprinter exhaust system with integral catalyst (also priced above $1000) the dpf is expected to be a "life of vehicle" component. The ECU performs soot afterburn cleaning of the filter ( during extended highway use). For owners doing only low speed city driving there is a diagnostic service procedure using Star Scan (replaces the DRBIII in CAN based diagnostics). This allows the technician to perform an afterburn cleaning of the filter without extended highway driving. So calm down and enjoy your new Sprinter and STOP fabricating excuses to buy a boring and thirsty gasoline version. Doktor A
 
altered sprinter,

when iwas doing research on the dpf i investigated adblue use in
blutec engines. i have no problem with new technololgy to keep air clean
and use diesel. what is manufactuers saying how wonderful it is then
charging more money. i bet mb could make a diesel engine to meet emissions
but then the mileage would be lousy. so they sell the european union
on this adblue scam. by using adblue they can keep better mileage on the diesel engine. but, adblue costs money. the cost of this should be added
to the overall costs to using diesel. more expensive up front, dpf; etc.

gerry
 

poolmike

'05 2500 SHC
Sounds like a diesel ISN'T for you.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Thanks DR A
You answered some of the members questions, and saved me a little key space.
However I will run a little more detail latter on how it works in plain English, I guess I was thrown off a little as well because there is an older unit that requires replacement of the DPF unit which was meant for the trucking community !'So at the time when I posted the above I was not sure if the Sprinter was effected.
It's obvious some folk who purchase a new sprinter will go for gas! as it's a better suited unit for them in the short term , overall a diesel unit, far out weighs itself as a stand a lone unit. "for for long term economical use over a five year period of operation".
As a fleet operator of Diesel units and Gas units over a thirty nine year period backed up by statistics , through our chartered accountants Diesel wins hands down in long term ,fuel and weight carrying capacity including reliability where the down time for maintaining a Diesel unit has proven its self What gas vehicle is capable of doing 36 thousand K'S before an oil and service change?
One thought by another member is why do MB not make an engine [DIESEL]
emission compliant! "THEY DO" right up to Euro v and v1 2012
adblue is not a scam it works as it's 98% effective for reducing Co2 and Nox emissions , and yes there is a cost, that has to be met and borne by the owner of the vehicle who operates it.
Emission controls were first bought in by the Californian sector well before the European commission mandates, of which the US government is a member now, and has been since 1998 as a signatory charted member of the European chamber of transparency and as to it's many portfolios it holds towards developing future emission controls, on the polluting countries.even china is trying to cut it's emissions down by 50% in green house emissions over the next two years, [Not Decades] as to the pressures being placed on it via the US and European countries which trade with it .
Fuel will continue to increase as the Iranian issue continues to escalate , so fuel at the pumps in all fuels will continue to spike as to supply and demand.
One may say! So why should I pay for the added cost of fuel imposts and the cost the costs of emission controls along with the costings of technology that are incorporated into a manufactures vehicle ?
Answer someone has to pay and pay, if you want to enjoy a continuence in life as to the given facts of global warming which will impact on your life today but more so with the future of tomorrows children we are the caretakers of the future, so a cost has to be met, and vehicles are the biggest single problem with emission pollution today,
Don't worry about industry, that's another story of inconvenience, it's the local folk who pay for the industry costings of fixing up that long term problem.
Richard

How can vehicle operators comply with the proposed Low Emission Zone.pdf (application/pdf Object)
 
dr a,
everything you say is correct. however you did not get to the point i'm making. ash still collects in the filter and at about 100,000 miles has to be
either removed or filter replaced. this is what i've been refering too.
i sussest you go to dieselplace.com/forum/ click on duramax 4th generation
duramax uses the same kind of dpf. there are several multiple post
discussions explaining/complaining about the dpf issue. they do it better
than i do.

altered sprinter,
scam was a poor choice of words on my part. in august of last year
i did a study trying to decide diesel/gas. goig to multiple sites about all
pertinent subjects i stumbled across a site which said mb almost developed
a diesel engine which almost met all emissions requirement, problem is it also
got less mileage than gas so voila bluetec urea. i can't find it again. also
go to wolfgangs ml page diesel engines. EPA scr guidance letter 3/27/07 this
is the future of urea in us. it will cost us dearly gerry
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Hi Gerry
Don't take this the wrong way I'm not flaring at the US side Ok
I understand where your at, but please understand this as a fact. I am retired as of 2003 as a part of the team with the Euro commission, last year in the states we were again called into the USA as independents, to help the EPA bring a case against BP! which I sure you would have be aware of.
Fuels in the US unfortunately with Diesel are not to specifications that meet the standards of Euro fuels MB , BMW, VW have all tested the old DPF's including Blutec and bluemoon Euros additives they met the emission standards but don't on US Fuels, it's the quality you have as to the US using six imported crude oils, four out of the six are very high in sulphate content, and the refinery of the product is not up to scratch, in either gas or diesel.
example Diesel ULSD fuel is set at 300 ppm not to exceed 500 ppm BP is still at over eight hundred ppm on ULSD , as US refineries struggle to met demand on Gas, diesel is imported but there is not enough refineries capable of reproducing the fuel to specs that are compatible for the Diesel Engines, set up for European Fuels.
Goggle how many refineries in the US blew up in the US in the first quarter of this year? Is this the refinery's fault for not upgrading to modern standards! Check when the last new one was built, The Governments and previous government's have not taken fuel supply seriously enough in the states since the first oil spike back in 1972 So blame the Politicians not the manufactures who have had a hard time trying to comply with emission standards, manufactures have done what they were asked of, it's time the US Government pulled up their socks and looked at the big picture.
The solution is simple enough and it could be implemented immediately.
Again How is quality Diesel going to be distributed via the US pipelines 220 thousand miles of thirty year old pipes, that are failing due to lack of unmaintained lines, where inspections via multiple contractors, or state and federal inspectors, who don't have the qualifications or the power to make amends to defective infrastructures, it doesn't help when the bulk fuels are sent via the same lines, that include gas, oil and various grades of distulates, where stations that sell fuels don't have filtration in place, holding tanks thirty years old that have rusted out, where ground seepage is allowed in, non maintaining tanks when switching fuels! with no cleaning of the tanks, which have heavy metal, water, and foreign substances in the tanks, and you wonder why Sprinters break down.
The new Particulate filters also require a low ash oil this is synthetic based formula that does comply to US emission standards yet, I have not seen a spec any where as of yet that referees to this mystery oil it was on Wolfgang's page MAY 2006.I use this oil and it works.

The reference to the MB almost making an engine that complied was correct, you are referring to the Sun Diesel concept engine that Chrysler was developing for the US in Germany, along side of the Bluetc unit, the Sun Diesel engine was designed to burn all types of alternative and Bio mass type fuels, this was because of the Bush admin pushing for a local sustainable fuel, However this engine burnt the waste partialities inside of the engine and there was no way a computer assist program could be developed to order up a control; burn of excessive carbons it also meant loss of power and poorer fuel returns, it was not a viable engine for exclusive US Use. for a limited market as to the costs of further development and costings of producing the engines unless it was shared with Both Ford and GM.
Blu tec burns off the gases after it leaves the engine and into the exhaust system , the Urea is a wet process to cool down whats left of the unburnt gases to be deposited into a particle trap at the end of the exhaust, which is serviced at a designated time at the dealers workshop.another cost by the way.
There is a third option which was developed in the early sixties that uses a generator to generate a charge of electric impulses which basically found a rouge rascal element to neutralize either the positive or neutral charge, zap it burns off the waste products in the exhaust pipe with a single charge every one second, its so simple and its cheap to produce but again developing oxygen senors with this system seems too hard to do, but there is also a patient on it, and it's not for sale at give away prices.
Europe has had blue tec on its trucks for a number of years and fuel cost four times more that what your paying for.
Vehicles over 4.6 tons in the commercial sector are starting to use bluetec by 2009 all commercial vehicles will be using blutec, and by 2012 all units will be using this system in effect fuel reduction will decrease by 40% emission s for manufacturing the produce will reduce by a further 50% as less fuel will be required however as the population increases along with transportation this will at worst keep demand at todays levels rather than increase the demand for fuels , with China coming on line this and India will double demand by 2030
business will, eventually factor the additional costs into their every day operations as older units currently used are phased out of commercial use, private folk will pay dearly for the privilege of being on the road and yes Jerry I do appreciate your thought's and anger,or frustration! but this is the penalty we all have to pay for.
Europe has been the first to standardize a progressive problem which is why so many folk drive small efficient Diesel vehicles , Australia has the same problem but it's based on distances between major cities and rural towns, and we pay a AU $1.25 a litre for Diesel on average and the stuffs going up again because of the Iranian conflict , looked at the price of fuel at your local pumps today?
Again this is an outside comment from another perspective of looking at the big picture, America does not have exclusive rights to world oil supply its a free commodity to be traded between competing nations,
The US has ample reserves of oils and shale sands to extract The bush admin would not allow oil to be extracted from the Gulf whilst it was uinder USAF control for military use yet Cuba allowed every one to use its shelf to explore and extract oil at your back door, o except US oil companies, now you have access to the gulf this will take a little heat of imported oils , but its deep limited in mass volume and and it costs to extract, so the oils from any part of the US will not be free flowing like the good old days, it will be very expensive to get out of the ground , so fuel will become an ever greater burden on the American sector for years to come until an alternative source of energy can be found.
If your grumbling now I 'd hate to see the look on your back pocket book on the year of 2013 when all mandates for Bin requirements are in force.
Placing a blame on MB is a poor excuse in any ones book of reality.
My thoughts are at this very moment as to what future does the US sector have for an automotive sector?
Porsche just signed of a deal to buy VW so the sharing of technology between VW and MB has to be in question VW just merged as corporate player with Man trucks, this is in direct competition with Aco and freightliner trucks. DC has tried to find partners to grow production in the US with other manufactures to share in costings, and if this does not happen soon on April the fourth the day of reckoning will prevail, as to the continuing losses in the US sector with Chrysler based vehicles , the shareholders want it to go, and let MB do what it does best and that's make quality vehicles.
If Chrysler is dumped and I hope to God it isn't, then I'm not sure where the market will be with Sprinters in the US it's a reality you may lose them if some one else takes them on , it's been made clear to MB from the shareholders the losses must stop.... and the differences in prices in the US as to what the Europeans are paying has also sparked considerable criticism for all sectors of Europe as to the massive subsidiarity discounts given to the Sprinters for sale in the US, and its a fact you can not buy a sprinter for what they are selling for in the US so someone is paying for the dependency's of discounts.
Now were back to the filter it will last for years , its supposed to last the life of the Sprinter but if a Sprinter lasted 20 years I think a replacement might happen to be a fact, so Hands up who is keeping a Sprinter past ten years I'm not five years and they go from my company it's not my problem after that.
Why the filter has a hundred thousand warranty on it in the US based on 2004 emission warranty's has me beat, either I've missed something or its for freightliner trucks and not Sprinters, , someone will have to investigate this at your end of the pond, it doesn't add up so gerry has a valid question that pertains at least on the life span of the filter in question.
Sorry for any spelling mistakes I'm getting giddy just looking at what I think I wrote:crazy:
Richard
 
altered sprinter,

i'm not angry or anything like that. i originally just did an analysis based
on cost. when everything is factored in it really is no cheaper to own diesel
over gas except if your a long haul trucker with heavy loads.

that originally is what i was trying to convince myself of .

if i was to by a diesel it had to be an economic benefit to me.

i know some people want a diesel because they want a diesel.

the negatives of diesel especiially for me in massachusettes

for cold weather starts etcc. i am not anti-diesel. i'm also not pro-diesel
i'm pro-cash in my pocket. gerry
 

nocky

Member
This was a few years back but I thought this was interesting.

http://www.mbusa.com/microsite/leadership/media/richmedia/video/laredo.mov


Date: May 12, 2005
MERCEDES-BENZ E320 CDI BREAKS WORLD RECORDS
Around The World In 30 Days - Four Times

Return to Index

Laredo, TX - The new Mercedes-Benz V6 CDI diesel engine has achieved an impressive list of world records this weekend in Laredo, Texas. Three standard-production E320 CDI (Common-Rail Direct Injection) vehicles equipped with the 221-hp powerplants covered distances of 100,000 kilometers, 50,000 and 100,000 miles respectively in world-record times.** Combined the three record diesel vehicles traveled the equivalent of almost eight times around the world, with the 100,000-mile record car achieving an average speed of 139.699 mph. Despite the extreme stresses, the maintenance-free diesel particulate filter held up magnificently over the entire record distance without any deterioration in performance -- further testimony to the reliability and durability of this exhaust technology.

This historic event follows last year's successful return of the Mercedes-Benz diesel engine to the luxury brand's lineup. The E320 CDI exceeded sales expectations by more than 38 percent with 4,158 units sold. Boasting strong acceleration, excellent fuel economy and low noise levels, the latest generation of electronically-injected CDI engines is helping to change U.S. consumers' dated perceptions about diesel powertrains. The E320 CDI achieves 27/37 mpg for city and highway driving, respectively, translating into up to 30 percent better fuel economy than comparable gasoline engines. A showcase for the latest in diesel engine technology, the 3.2-liter diesel engine can propel the E320 CDI from 0 to 60 mph in just 6.6 seconds and cruise up to 780 miles on a single tank of fuel.

With precise electronic control of fuel delivery, hand-in-hand with an oxidation catalyst, the E320 CDI can pass current 45-state emissions standards. With increased availability of low-sulfur "clean" diesel fuel in the U.S. imminent, Mercedes-Benz engineers are optimistic that the CDI diesel can eventually meet emissions standards in all 50 states.

A pioneer in diesel powertrain technology, Mercedes-Benz invented the world's first diesel passenger car in 1936, the 260 D. Seven decades later, the Mercedes-Benz brand has produced more than 7 million diesel passenger cars, many of which are still in service today.

** All records subject to confirmation by the FIA. The Paris-based FIA (Fi tération Internationale de l'Automobile) is the governing body for world-record attempts in the automotive sector.


World Records Achieved

In addition to the world records over 100,000 kilometers plus 50,000 and 100,000 miles, the three international driver teams set other records:***

Distance Start International FIA record *
10 kilometers standing start 204.830 km/h -127.276 mph***
10 miles**** standing start 212.850 km/h -132.259 mph***
100 kilometers standing start 225.338 km/h - 140.019 mph***
100 miles standing start 217.847 km/h - 135.364 mph***
500 kilometers standing start 210.446 km/h - 130.778 mph***
500 miles standing start 206.502 km/h - 128.315 mph***
1,000 kilometers standing start 205.426 km/h - 127.646 mph***
1,000 miles standing start 204.892 km/h - 127.314 mph***
5,000 kilometers standing start 215.043 km/h - 133.622 mph***
5,000 miles standing start 218.779 km/h - 135.943 mph***
10,000 kilometers standing start 219.794 km/h - 136.574 mph***
10,000 miles standing start 221.268 km/h - 137.490 mph***
25,000 kilometers standing start 223.047 km/h - 138.595 mph***
25,000 miles standing start 224.278 km/h - 139.360 mph***
50,000 kilometers standing start 224.719 km/h - 139.634 mph***
50,000 miles (80,467 kilometers) standing start 225.456 km/h - 140.092 mph***


World record **
100,000 kilometers standing start 225.903 km/h - 140.370 mph***

World record **
100,000 miles (160,934 kilometers) standing start 224.823 km/h - 139.699 mph***

World record **
1 hour standing start 216.942 km/h - 134.802 mph***
6 hours standing start 203.990 km/h -126.754 mph***
12 hours standing start 206.087 km/h -128.057 mph***
24 hours standing start 215.533 km/h - 133.926 mph***


* International FIA records in vehicle category B - production vehicles, Group III - turbo-diesels, Class 11 - swept volume 2,500 - 3,000 cc
** World record: absolute best figure among all vehicle categories and classes
*** All records subject to confirmation by the FIA
**** 1 mile = 1.609344 km (conversion factor according to FIA rules)
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
altered sprinter,

i'm not angry or anything like that. i originally just did an analysis based
on cost. when everything is factored in it really is no cheaper to own diesel
over gas except if your a long haul trucker with heavy loads.

that originally is what i was trying to convince myself of .

if i was to by a diesel it had to be an economic benefit to me.
OK That's fair enough
Diesel is 30 to 40% more economical to run in fuel savings than a gas unit
carry three times the weight Chev one ton Mercedes 3,5 tonne


i know some people want a diesel because they want a diesel.
That is your choice on a personal basis as to how many miles you do?

the negatives of diesel especiially for me in massachusettes
Starts at -20 with added anti gel additives

for cold weather starts etcc. i am not anti-diesel. i'm also not pro-diesel
i'm pro-cash in my pocket. gerry
Join the club, I'm not made of money either.
Long term benefit, but from an Australian prospective
If I purchased a Sprinter at AU 50.000 ran it for five years and traded back at 220 Ks I would still get have it's original residual value about 25 grand
If I bought a gas unit another brand as gas is not an option with Mercedes, so lets say a Ford Transit at 39 grand it would only be worth one third of its original valve and there is considerable maintenances on a gas unit over the period of five years.
Overall in a five year period on low mileage units there is what I would call a cost negative situation , it's a bit of a much for a much thing:thinking:
However the maintenance costs and down time out weigh the cost effectiveness with gas engines they simply cost more to maintain, Where the most important part of purchasing a vehicle comes into play is the safety aspect nothing compares to a Mercedes vehicle in this respect, but you can have either gas or diesel so you get that either way.
I'd do a long term projection as to which way the US Government is heading on fuel , you may end up with tax being added on inefficient engines and the sprinter with gas may get hit it has in Canada and that was last month
with a 4 grand penalty for purchasing gas vehicles under different classes looks like Canada is eventually going Diesel and hybrid.
I guess you need to look at it a little deeper and I would not be worrying about that filter too much I don't think it's going to be a big issue it is stainless so the system wont rust from salts on winter roads.
What ever you get best of luck heck if you do get a gas unit you'd be the first on the forum , and that will get everyones tongue a waggling.:rolleyes:
Richard




 

poolmike

'05 2500 SHC
I bought my Sprinter to reduce my fuel consumption, I wish the rest of this country would think that way. Diesels burn cleaner than ever, and are far more efficient than gas engines. The diesel purchase price vs. payoff argument will go on for ever. For me, it is simply a matter of burning clean and using less oil in a vehicle that suits my needs so the rest of the free world can still gas up their H2's at 3mpg.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Good call poolmike
But I think we could be a little fairer than 3 MPG, can we agree on at least:rad: 5MPG:bounce:
Richard
 

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