How secure is an electronic voting machine

flman

Release the Kraken!
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Cute.
Although he gleaned quite a bunch of interesting info from the machine, he didn't really *hack* it.
No false data was entered, no breaching of the protection protocols.
Yes, he was able to physically remove the PROM that contained the programming, but he didn't do anything with it
(and it may not have revealed any useful SSL key info, either, since that's a one-way protocol.)

Since there are additional layers of security (he speaks of a manual key entry), that means that even knowing the machine's key would still leave you trying to guess the secondary key.

I've hacked less-secure systems (as in: modified the firmware to add features and bypass bugs), and the stuff he's showing (even with a "dump the PROM" readout) he's still man-months away from any significant penetration. Certainly a building full of Chinese hackers would have it singing and dancing within a week, but your casual hacker would take a good while.

I may have missed it, did he ever say whose machine it was? (i.e. make and model, not that it was from Meyers Lake Ohio)

--dick
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
:idunno:

Specifically the Dominion Voting System was called out in tweets as changing "millions" of votes. The Dominion Voting System is used in the State of Georgia. Georgia recently released the results of a hand count. There were 2000 odd votes that were found to have not been counted. Those votes were reportedly contained on a memory stick that was misplaced by an inept government employee. (Inept government employee? Ever spend any time in the DMV?)

Anyway, the recount didn't show any significant differences over the Dominion Voting System tabulations. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that information.

:cheers: vic
 

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
Voting machines somehow seemed to have worked well enough when Trump won, and would not have been questioned if Trump won this time. What a bunch of transparent nonsense.
 

ECU

Well-known member
The voting will be the same unless you change the amount of votes. recounting doesn't show the fraud.
Say you put 10 gallons of diesel in your sprinter that is already half full. Can you then remove only the diesel you just put in?
The fraud is there, no question. But how do you remove the bad ballots? You don't.
That doesn't make 'no fraud.' That only makes a bad voting count and process.
 

ECU

Well-known member
Voting machines somehow seemed to have worked well enough when Trump won, and would not have been questioned if Trump won this time. What a bunch of transparent nonsense.
No. The reason Hillary would not accept the vote was because she thought she should have won due to her side creating fraud voting.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
vote1.png


vote2.png

--dick (realist)
STOP THE STEAL .... get Trump's troops out of the "squash the votes" business.
 

flman

Release the Kraken!
:idunno:

Specifically the Dominion Voting System was called out in tweets as changing "millions" of votes. The Dominion Voting System is used in the State of Georgia. Georgia recently released the results of a hand count. There were 2000 odd votes that were found to have not been counted. Those votes were reportedly contained on a memory stick that was misplaced by an inept government employee. (Inept government employee? Ever spend any time in the DMV?)

Anyway, the recount didn't show any significant differences over the Dominion Voting System tabulations. Draw whatever conclusions you want from that information.

:cheers: vic
Funny the Dominion execs pulled a no show in PA. If it was so transparent.....

 

flman

Release the Kraken!
Cute.
Although he gleaned quite a bunch of interesting info from the machine, he didn't really *hack* it.
No false data was entered, no breaching of the protection protocols.
Yes, he was able to physically remove the PROM that contained the programming, but he didn't do anything with it
(and it may not have revealed any useful SSL key info, either, since that's a one-way protocol.)

Since there are additional layers of security (he speaks of a manual key entry), that means that even knowing the machine's key would still leave you trying to guess the secondary key.

I've hacked less-secure systems (as in: modified the firmware to add features and bypass bugs), and the stuff he's showing (even with a "dump the PROM" readout) he's still man-months away from any significant penetration. Certainly a building full of Chinese hackers would have it singing and dancing within a week, but your casual hacker would take a good while.

I may have missed it, did he ever say whose machine it was? (i.e. make and model, not that it was from Meyers Lake Ohio)

--dick
It seems it is a hack right off of the assembly line, closed source OS.
All the information is printed right on the chip sets to look up information to exploit the system security.
He could have swapped in a new PROM, with no problem. Plus with a plug in storage, another easy thing to hack.
Connected to the internet? :wtf:
Bingo, full of Chinese hacks right out of the package.

Paper is the most secure, a logger cuts the tree down, the mill turns it into paper, a printer prints the ballots and sealed envelopes. Then on election day they are opened with all parties present to observie post marks on the sealed envelope, and to verify signatures. That is what I would considered less vulnerable. You take these ITs with an agenda, and what could go wrong? :shifty:
 

pfflyer

Well-known member
Paper is the most secure, a logger cuts the tree down, the mill turns it into paper, a printer prints the ballots and sealed envelopes. Then on election day they are opened with all parties present to observie post marks on the sealed envelope, and to verify signatures. That is what I would considered less vulnerable. You take these ITs with an agenda, and what could go wrong? :shifty:
Paper ballots but done in person is the most secure. Absentee next but with verification. Mail in not so much. I don’t think UN monitors would go along with mail in ballots or stopping the count on Election Day.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
I'm looking forward to seeing the conspiracy exposed as to the changing and misrepresenting votes that is reported to be country wide. The perpetrators will be brought to justice in the courts once the facts come out. It's disturbing to know that many like minded people are in charge of the voting across all of the States even though the States have individual and differing standards for verifying votes. All of those thousands of people that were recruited and involved need to be charged, convicted, and put in jail for their crimes.

The lawsuits will bring out the details.

:2cents: vic
 

flman

Release the Kraken!
Dems, Ron Wyden, Jamie Raskin, Amy Klobuchar, was warning about paperless voting machines back in February. :whistle:

 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
People who voted with Dominion machines were given a printed copy of their ballot (so they could verify it), which they then turned in to the election personnel. So a physical audit trail exists.

Here in Washington, we fill in paper mark-sense ballots (and Sharpies work fine, they used to be provided when it was in-person voting)
which are what we mail (or slip into a drop-box) (the envelopes are pre-paid, so there's no need to buy/supply a stamp).
The election site provides a method of following your ballot through the system (received, signature verified, opened, counted) with time-stamps.
In the in-person days, the ballot were fed (by the voter) into a machine that inhaled them ... and that was it. No secondary verification.

Just for amusment: have you ever used the old mechanical tabulating machines? Dozens of little flip-toggles (plus a couple of big handles that flipped them "all" if you wanted to vote straight party-lines. The final "Vote" lever then re-opened the curtain behind you. No paper audit trail that the voter had access to. There were always precincts/areas/cities/states that had "rigged" machines for shifting or undercounting votes. The world and time conspired that i got to use one once.

--dick
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...

Just for amusement: have you ever used the old mechanical tabulating machines? Dozens of little flip-toggles (plus a couple of big handles that flipped them "all" if you wanted to vote straight party-lines. The final "Vote" lever then re-opened the curtain behind you. No paper audit trail that the voter had access to. There were always precincts/areas/cities/states that had "rigged" machines for shifting or undercounting votes. The world and time conspired that i got to use one once.

--dick
:thumbup:

When voting in Niagara Falls, NY what you describe above was SOP. That was what we had as voting machines. Weather permitting my wife and I always walked over to vote. I recall that I was allowed to take my son in behind the curtain with me while I voted. My wife took our daughter in with her. Life was much, much more civil back then. (It was ok to compartmentalize the sexes.)

We were given Sharpies to mark our ballots this year. In person early voting was available, but there were limited voting places. Lines were long. People waited long times to vote early. Our decision was to wait and vote in person as we always do. It worked fine. 2 people were in front of us. We cycled right through.

I did notice that the normal geriatric poll people were replaced with younger faces. (That made complete sense to me.)

vic
 

flman

Release the Kraken!
I have used the old mechanical machines as well. But that was a different Era, when you got 4 years of whoever, but they both believed in the constitution and the institutions of America. Also my vote was counted on US soil, not in Canada, Venezuela, or Germany. Does that seem right to you?
 
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Tom Tint

Member
I would tend to believe that the Trump legal camp is holding out proof for the Supreme Court review and not showing their cards beforehand..So that the other team can't prepare for whats coming. While I also believe it may be hard to rig the voting machines on a large scale..I don't think it impossible. What I do think skewed the tally was mail in voting with no real way to confirm signatures at this point. My understanding is that there are hundreds of thousands of votes in battleground states with only Biden filled in. No other votes for any other race that were on the same card. Also thousands of straight republican with only Biden chosen for POTUS. ..this is also irregular.
Low level courts are clearly going to punt on these cases and the Trump administration knows that. They don't want the vehicle that brings the BLM parade to town to set it on fire. ..When this does ...and it will..end up in the S.C...Its going to be a real test of the metal in that court. On one hand, if they punt...It will erode the faith in our voting system of 70mil plus Americans. If they decide to dig deep and investigate...The left will scream bloody murder and torch every city and town they can
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
I would tend to believe that the Trump legal camp is holding out proof for the Supreme Court review and not showing their cards beforehand..So that the other team can't prepare for whats coming.
That's not how the Supreme Court works. They don't rule on a case (per se'), they rule on the matter of the law that the lower court judge may have mis-applied (or other words to that effect).
They also don't rule on matters of *state* law ... that's an issue for the individual state's supreme court.

What I do think skewed the tally was mail in voting with no real way to confirm signatures at this point.
Our state has done it for years. The signature (on the outside of the envelope) is compared to your registration card (on a screen). IF it doesn't match, they try to contact you by phone. email, or (perhaps) letter mail to your address. Next to the signature on the envelope is a spot for you to provide your preferred contact method (failing which, they'll use mail).
My signature has definitely changed over the years, so i have submitted updated registration cards between moves (which also generated a card).

My understanding is that there are hundreds of thousands of votes in battleground states with only Biden filled in. No other votes for any other race that were on the same card. Also thousands of straight republican with only Biden chosen for POTUS. ..this is also irregular.
If you didn't receive your requested ballot in time for the election, there is a "federal only" ballot you can download, fill in and submit. That would cause such a "president only" ballot.
The amount of info you have to include identifying yourself is quite long.
Low level courts are clearly going to punt on these cases and the Trump administration knows that. They don't want the vehicle that brings the BLM parade to town to set it on fire. ..When this does ...and it will..end up in the S.C...Its going to be a real test of the metal in that court. On one hand, if they punt...It will erode the faith in our voting system of 70mil plus Americans. If they decide to dig deep and investigate...The left will scream bloody murder and torch every city and town they can
The Supreme court doesn't "investigate" ... they're not trying to "try a criminal case", they're only listening and ruling on how the lower court handled the case, not the guilt of the criminal.

Many of the lower court cases have been laughable ... here is a typical example:


--dick
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Your replies are antidotal of the issues that are present in the last voting cycle...You are a bit late
??? (and i assume you meant "anecdotal")
Without commenting on the merits of the case(s) involved, i was merely trying to correct your apparent impression of how the US legal system "works" (or "how cases progress through and up the system").
You wrote:
I would tend to believe that the Trump legal camp is holding out proof for the Supreme Court review and not showing their cards beforehand.
In the US, the theory is that the accuser (plaintiff) presents their best case *at the beginning*.
If you win, you're done.
If you don't win, you try to figure out how the judge made an error in procedure or judgement, and appeal on those grounds.
It's those appeals that go up the district/supreme court tree ... not the merits of the original case.
The appeals courts do NOT want to have you (try to) "retry" the case by introducing new evidence (as plaintiff).
If you had, but did not present, that evidence in the first place, then it's not the first judge's fault that you lost.
Appeal denied, original judgement stands.
When a plantiff wins on appeal, the usual result is that the case is sent back down to the lower level to be re-tried.
The appellate court does not affirm your original case, it (merely) sets aside the original judgement.
No "win", merely a canceling of the "loss".

So saving (reserving) any "better" evidence for a higher court's review is not a pathway to winning. Quite the opposite.

--dick
 
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