My 2010 Euro5 NCV3 - The King is Dead. Long live the King.

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
~830,000kms together
She’s still a fine looking van
I had been wondering for a few years when would be a good time to replace it.

Simon your post and your obvious pride of ownership capture the true spirit of this forum.
Thanks for sharing it. Gary:bow:
 

ZED

Sprinter Newbie
...
11. Fitted some proper lights in the load space. Surprising how long it takes to properly route and protect the cabling. Had the idea to use the vehicle’s illumination circuit as the trigger for the load space lighting relay so that the load space lights can only be used when the vehicle lights are on: that way they can never be accidentally left on. Finding a stable illumination feed not on the low CAN was a minor challenge in itself. The only places I could find to extend the vehicle illumination circuit were the side marker lights or the fuse board in the passenger footwell. DC’s policy of altering wire colours on the same run just for the fun of it didn’t help…
...
I think I know the answer to your wiring colour issue... They couldn't source colour coded wire long enough to reach the length of that monster. :eek: :smilewink:

Great write-up! :clapping:
That's the sort of work-over I would like to do too if I had one from new. You're doing it up well for your long term ownership.

Bummer you couldn't continue with the British Racing Green. That's one of my all time favourites too. I expect the colour looses something on the web, but the new green looks a little like I would picture a Vogon. :wtf: Oh well, can't have everything I guess.

One question: What is a super single? Is that what we call Dual wheels over here in N.A. or is it something else?
 

talkinghorse43

Active member
One question: What is a super single? Is that what we call Dual wheels over here in N.A. or is it something else?
One tire wide enough to carry the load two would normally be required to carry.
 

stylus pilot

New member
What a fabulous account of your new beast Simon!

I love pouring over the details and intricacies of the specs of new vehicles (and have lost many hours to the various online configurators refining the 'optimum' spec for various cars:D:) so this thread is option-list-geek heaven.

I didn't realise one was able to (legally) de-restrict the pesky 56mph limiters on 3.5t+ vans... Presumably this is legal on all kit up to 7.5t? Are there rules on staying out of Lane 3? I love the idea of seeing the überhang GT cruising at the appropriate Schnell factor.

What was the nature of your ESP software tweaking, if you don't mind me asking?

I was amazed to read your MPG figure with the auto box, particularly with the AR5 diff - may I ask how many rpm/leptons you cruise at (on the autobahn etc...) to see that return?

Congratulations on such a fitting replacement for the lovely T1N, it's not difficult to see why the predecessor lasted so well when you put so much thought into preparing and maintaining your vans.
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
Thanks SP, and I completely agree – the ins and outs of the options list are more complicated than they at first seem. Some apparently unrelated items conflict and even the dealers don’t fully understand which do or don’t. The ordering system governs your option choices.

To lift the 90kmH limiter requires a live direct plug in to Germany, so dealer only at the moment. Strictly speaking it isn’t removed but changed to 160kmH. I think it will depend where you are geographically as to whether they will accommodate you in this respect.

The ESP software issue, one of the new ESP features for 2010 is Trailer Stability Assist or TSA: if ESP should detect “snaking” during towing it applies the effective appropriate braking counter measure to help correct the problem. The way the sales literature reads suggests that TSA is only enabled if a factory tow bar is fitted, i.e. no tow bar / no TSA. I specifically wanted to order just the tow bar electrics and not one of the factory tow bars (a bit spendy for what they are) as I have no immediate intentions to tow anything but may do in the future so having the electrics makes a lot of sense (with the issues of retrofitting and warranty in mind).

The dealer thought – correctly as it turned out – that if you only order tow bar electrics then TSA is still enabled at the factory, even though no factory tow bar was fitted. However this is contrary to the impression the sales brochure leaves you with. I just wanted the dealer to show me it was enabled.

As a side note, if you order the factory towbar electrics you get the extended loom underneath to the rear bumper terminating in plug and socket ready for you to push in the neat little tow bar loom supplied in the glove box when you're ready.

Note again that my AR5 ~4.7 final drive ratio isn’t what it seems because of the SuSi tyres: at the wheels it’s ~4.3. DC don't point this out to you at any time, I just recognised it pre-order and worked it out. I’m still running it in, but normally only drive at around 100kmH anyway. I’ll check on the RPM / kmH comparison, watch this space etc.

DC really had to address the early NCV3's mpg issue with the Euro5 revision - it was costing them in lost sales (diesel is ~£1.15/litre in the UK at the moment...). In a commercial environment fuel is by some considerable margin your largest expense. I think if you went manual over auto with OM651 you might see low thirties mpg even with a heavy body variant. However the six speed auto is definitely grin inducing…

Some unexpected bonuses: I've discovered that if I slide the front seats all the way forwards and remove the front headrests I can then wind the front seat backs all the way back. At their flattest position they line up with the rear seat squab which makes a decent enough platform across the back to sleep on. Or sitting in the back you can put your feet up on the fully reclined passenger seat in a "first class long haul" style, or with the passenger seat back slightly raised from horizontal it can be used as a laptop desk in front of the rear seat. So several uses of the same kit - lovin' that...
 
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stylus pilot

New member
Thanks for the speedy reply Simon! Speaking of dealer confusion, I was almost suprised to see your 416 designation, as from some of MB's online option lists it would suggest a jump straight from 31x to 51x for the Euro 5 - and I'm yet to see anything other than a 51x badged dually, or indeed any SuSis on the road.

I have driven a fair number of delivery mileage Euro 5s in various configurations recently, and I must say although I'm a die-hard manual cog-swappist, I think I'd be drawn strongly towards the Auto for daily UK traffic use on the grounds of the partiuclarly nasty gear linkage in the new stick-shifters. They really are upsettingly bad, even given the fact they haven't seen any 'break-in' period for them to loosen up, and I know that the very baulky examples don't see any adjustment at the PDI stage either... (The new Transit linkage is even worse, mind).

I'm assuming from your posts you placed your order through a UK dealer, which is comforting if true with regard to the VMax raise.

ESP/(ASC?) wise, do you know how far 'off' it is switched when using the standard dash button? The reason I ask is I've seen hilarious levels of wheel-spin even on dry tarmac with the system still switched on (particularly on bare chassis models, which are obviously bouncey as hell!!). With it turned off, on any wet or loose surfaces you can hold considerable slides (at lowish speeds at least) which suprised me, as I assumed MB would want it to reign in the power straight away...

I know the MB car systems allow a fair amount of lateral slip before they call time on the fun, and can never be truly disabled (unless there is some software trickery that can be done ?). I just wondered if you knew the situation on the NCV3? (All this is fairly academic in normal driving of course, more so of beloved personal examples, but I do like to know what the situation is when these things are switched 'off', just in case, of course...) Nothing to do with getting outrageously sideways in an early T1N while negotiating a very large, deserted, damp roundabout, occifer...

The sleeping/seating options sound fantastic, I assumed you would be sleeping along the rear bench seat but it sounds great with room for two to stretch out or various choices for one. Do you plan to run any sort of curtain/blind affair while in 'night' mode, or are the mega tints in the rear enough to give adequate privacy?
 

HappyFamilyVan

Captain Ahab
Have not tried yet...but have been informed that if one purchases the PSM or the Trailer Module (AAG) you can retrofit MYs 2007 through 2009 with TSM...looks like a cool feature...enjoy the movie
 

Attachments

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
Yes it is UK supplied SP, I doubt you’ll ever see many SuSis here - most buyers want a stock-as-a-rock fleet 311/3. I’ve only ever seen three other SuSis, all non-UK registered and spotted in Europe. They have been available to order since NCV3 launch though. Most would go to the five series where you get an additional 400kgs or so of payload however… you’ll never be able to load a standard pallet through the wheel arches because they’re now too narrow – the result of the NCV3 body becoming wider, so the wheel wells that partially stood out on the T1Ncans are now all “inboard”. My colleague eloquently described an NCV3 dually as "...looking like a fat bird in heels...". A bit harsh maybe but you see what he means? The five series panel van has effectively been alienated from the cargo market but I don’t think DC will be losing sleep – most five series buyers have minibus or ambulance conversions in mind.

Interesting then to read your opinion on the definite notchiness that comes with the six speed ECOGear ‘box. Confirms my own first impression and is one of the main reasons I decided against it. Have heard others complaining about it too so I now feel it really does seem to be an issue and wasn't just my imagination. Maybe it improves with age – nice for the second or third owner perhaps…?!

Don’t know by how much ESP is reduced through use of dash switch, except to say it’s still lurking in the background as you probably know.

Am really pleased with the rear tints – you can easily see out from inside and the additional visibility is handy sometimes. I’ve temporarily made up some night blinds out of the same foil/rubber bubble wrap type material I used to insulate the cab roof sections with, it seems to work pretty well so I might just stick with those for now. I was going to get some internal silver screens knocked up for the “rear” windows to my template but I think my temporary ones could work better than the cab glass silver screens I’ve already got up front. Was plenty cosy enough at minus five in the Parisienne snow last night at least. I laugh in the face of Mother Nature, so long as my tank’s full that is..!
 
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stylus pilot

New member
My colleague eloquently described an NCV3 dually as "...looking like a fat bird in heels...".
:smirk:

A fair description I'd say! The medium wheelbase/high roof does nothing to help the effect on a batch of blue ones I've seen recently (an order for a well known security company perhaps?) As a semi off-topic aside, it seems quite a number of 313 and 316s in various lengths are being bought up with at least the A/C, cruise/limiter and multi function wheel packs, which is good news for the pre-reg/fleet market drivers. Personally I wish the adjustable wheel was included in this little group, as I find it so crucial to getting comfy.

A complaint you've no doubt often heard concerns the lower payload of the ubiquitous 3 series LWB in comparison to the old T1Ncan. With the threatening rumblings of imminent UK tacho/driving hours regs on 3.5t vans in the coming years - feared by the couriers running scary trunking marathons - I suppose the SuSi might well become more attractive, to the pallet network in particular as you say - allowing a more reasonable payload without the compromise on space of the full-fat five series.

It's a great shame about the licensing issue for drivers of my generation though, as the C1/C barrier might well spoil the potential acceptance of the SuSi that the future tacho regs could otherwise promote.

With your front tyre choice, did you put the wider rubber onto the standard rim size, or choose a deeper wheel to suit? Has it affected the initial turn-in dynamics to a noticeable degree? (presumably with the wider tyre on a standard rim, there is a potential for more understeer until the tyre settles, or conversely with a wider rim, sharper initial 'bite' from the front end?)

Next time you happen to be taking pictures, could you get a shot or two showing more detail on the upper indicator repeaters at the rear? It's another thing I don't think I've ever seen on the road, great idea though for being seen from several vehicles behind!

Sorry for yet more questions!
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
No apology necessary for the questions – none of us knows all the answers after all.

The old chestnut about tachos for vans has been threatening for twenty years at least. I wouldn’t say “I can’t see it ever happening”, just “not any time soon…”. We already have the Working Time Directive and Drivers Hours legislation that governs what you are/aren’t supposed to do from that point of view.

Yes, I put wider rubber on the standard rims, but couldn’t make any comparative observations as the OE supplied skinnies were only on for a couple of hundred miles.

Will snap the roof indicators and post it up - they’re a bit larger than I thought they were going to be but I'd recommend them: safer on the motorway / if towing / in poor visibility. Got to be a good thing, like Adaptive brake lights – have you read about those on Euro5? Hit the brakes hard and ESP turns your brake lights from continuous to rapid flashing in an attempt to alert others earlier. Your hazard warning lights come on automatically too (cancel them manually). I'm all for stuff like that.

Seems like you drive a lot of different marques? Incidentally a Sprinter is probably the safest van you can be in on the road - checkout the Youtube clip of a Transit then a Sprinter being crash tested, then look again particularly at how little the Sprinter cab cell deforms. Good to know when you're driving down the road eh?
 

stylus pilot

New member
Ahh that's good to know that the tacho doom has been in the making for more time than I thought. Do you have to run your tacho even when 'off-duty' as you would a full truck, and have an operator's licence and so forth?

Yes I've heard about the adaptive brake lights, I didn't realise you had to self-cancel the hazards though, which could be embarrassing for the less attentive drivers on the motorway after the classic panic braking incidents! How does the Start Off Assist feature on the auto - is it anything to do with system for holding the brakes when the pedal is released during hill starts? (I assumed that was an ECOgear/manual related option, and that the auto would hold it on hills anyway with the creep from the torque convertor?)

(Off topic alert, again :bash:)

(One of) my current jobs is based at Killingholme, organising imported/exported cars, vans and trucks on and off the ships and around the various storage compounds for Mercedes, Mazda, Ford, Vauxhall (GM; Opel, Cadillac, currently Saab...) Chrysler (Dodge), Volvo, Scania, Renault Trucks and possibly, if we win the contract, a company most recently known for being comprehensively shafted by the modern media over a few recall issues...

As you've guessed by now I deal with plenty of box-fresh NCV3s of different specs, but also more or less the full model range from the european marques we cater for, which while paying me less than handsomely, feeds my hunger for sampling different cars nicely indeed. Tackle ranges from the poverty spec Corsa 3 cylinder granny chariot to the fully loaded Scania 620ps V8s. What does make me happy is the high percentage of 350 CDI optioned W212 and C207 E Classes coming through - there should be tons of them floating about on the market, upholding the law with relatively few vulgar four cyclinder diesels spoiling things! In fairness the new four-pot is great in it's own right, and is definitely the right choice for Sprinters, but its NVH levels in something as silent and waft-tastic as an E class are unacceptable, the six is barely a whisper by comparison. The new model really is a return to form, to the 'hewn-from-granite' Es of old.

Whilst lurking around here reading up info on T1Ns before a potential purchase, I couldn't help but spot some pics of yours, which led me to the rather tantalising post you opened this thread with a while back... I did half-wonder if your Euro 5 would pass through our hands, and recently kept an eye out for all things green called SuSan, but to be honest I'd hoped it went elsewhere given some of the less than sympathetic driving that goes on from time to time, particularly in the compounds on the other side of the water by all accounts... Also the neighbouring Lindsey refinery of national fame provides an excellent coating of industrial fallout on the MB cars that we keep for stock, and the chassis and fleet-spec vans that are parked up for a well known lease company...

As it happens I was re-watching the Transit/Sprinter crash test video last night, amongst other things on the 'tube - sure makes for shocking viewing doesn't it! I think I was originally drawn to it after seeing a crashed low-roof transit being recovered - it had rolled over and the roof/top of the A pillars had caved in significantly - the roof line above the top of the bulkhead had folded cleanly like a piece of stiff card! A friend of mine thankfully finished off his hateful LDV Convoy recently, with it folding a wheel under itself against a high kerb after sliding on ice. The passenger managed to drop his wallet through the resultant hole in the cab floor whilst stepping out of the van!
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
Ozzy, it’s a puzzle then - the literature suggests all European Euro5s get the six speed TSG480. Just curious - according to the sticker date on your driver seat base when did yours get built? Also, can I ask how you find the MPG around town / on the motorway?

SP, the Start Off Assist option is included into the TSG480 ‘box cost, but you can have it on manual too for ~£120. I had it on my old T1Ncan too, it was Series (standard) with Sprintshift. All it does is hold the footbrake on when you lift your foot off the brake for the accelerator. It also seems to modulate excess brake pedal pressure inputs, so if you’ve got your foot hard down on the brake pedal you will sometimes feel it pulsing / pedal rising slightly. Agreed: possibly overkill with the auto, no choice however.

I know Killingholme area well enough, have been out on DFDS (or DSV as they are now) from Immingham for Sweden several times lately - so nice just to put your feet up for twenty four hours then find yourself in Scandinavia.

Interesting observations on the four pot, I wouldn’t have minded the V6 in mine but no one I know who has one can better low twenties mpg in Euro4 format and more typically they seem to return high teens. I wonder if the Euro5 V6 is significantly more efficient – being a revamped Euro4 unit? I don’t find the four pot especially quiet standing next to it, but the interior seems to have better soundproofing than the T1Ncans – it appears quieter sitting inside. I do miss the purr of my old inline fives, smaller engines are where manufacturers are going now though.

From what you say about delivery driving techniques I’m glad mine had the 90kmH limiter up until it arrived back at the supplying dealer… I can’t remember the name of the UK port of arrival for mine, but I know that I’d never heard of the place. It was on a transporter from there anyway, along with two others. Hopefully it wasn’t driven off the boat backwards at 4,000rpms…

You were asking about the roof mounted indicators:

 

stylus pilot

New member
Simon, thanks for the great photo - I see what you mean about them being surprisingly tall! Should be great for being seen though, ideal for modern traffic levels.

I have indeed experienced the 'pulsing' sensation through the brake pedal on a couple of auto NCV3s, nice to know what it's doing!

I'll have to keep an eye out on the A/M180 and the roads around Immingham for your GT!

As for the V6 in Sprinter applications, I've been fairly disappointed with the sounds that filter through to the cab to be honest. It seems to actually be louder and if anything less refined (!) than the four-pot when turning at the sort of lower-medium revs you might use at motorway speeds. My point about the new E class was that the four pot really does spoil the whole experience - the sound deadening and vibration dampening seem to have been left at the factory in comparison to the V6 version of the car... Of course this isn't particularly unexpected, just interesting that there is a considerable difference in NVH levels that is seemingly negated or even slightly reversed when the engines are placed in the van...

Perhaps it's all down to the different maps the vehicles use - must be some fairly aggressive fueling going on to improve economy in the V6 NCV3, and the I4 is more strained to get the bigger output numbers in the cars.
 

ozzy

Member
Ozzy, it’s a puzzle then - the literature suggests all European Euro5s get the six speed TSG480. Just curious - according to the sticker date on your driver seat base when did yours get built? Also, can I ask how you find the MPG around town / on the motorway?

Hi mean, i am not sure were to look for the date on the sticker? i guess the date is muddled in with all the other numbers, what i can tell you is that i ordered it in July for a September build date as this was when the Euro 5 were being built , (factory was closed for the month of August!) i can not believe that a change like this has happened already :cry:
As for MPG, i am a kitchen/bathroom fitter i do some stop start stuff, short trips etc, have covered 3000 miles to date and i get an average of 18-20 on the dash, in all 280 miles out of a tank full :thinking: which is a lot less than the 316 sprint shift i sold. What are your thoughts?
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
Ozzy, you're looking for the square white sticker on the driver's seat base. It's to the right of the grey plastic panel in the middle and will probably have a clear plastic film over it with black border / MB star above. I think first or second line of white sticker gives build date.

I'm guessing that you may have AR2 as well, same as the V6 demonstrator I had a go in.

I'm curious to know when yours got built, although that raises more questions than answers if indeed it was built after Euro5 production began and it does have five ratios. I can't see that it's not Euro5 as it has 319 designation.

Some other stuff on your options link, like moving indicators out of side mirrors back onto the wing a la T1Ncan and the EEV and PSM stuff is more detailed than it was before Christmas.
 
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ozzy

Member
Ozzy, you're looking for the square white sticker on the driver's seat base. It's to the right of the grey plastic panel in the middle and will probably have a clear plastic film over it with black border / MB star above. I think first or second line of white sticker gives build date.

I'm guessing that you may have AR2 as well, same as the V6 demonstrator I had a go in.

I'm curious to know when yours got built, although that poses more questions than answers if indeed it was built after Euro5 production began and it does have five ratios. I can't see that it's not Euro5 as it has 319 designation.

Curious.
Hi, I dont have the white sticker? i got 2 back stickers one has the vin number on etc, the other has other no's and a couple of E no's???
As far as i know it is a 319 its got it on the door! and it was built in sept ! the dates to some of the components would indicate a sept build?
What is AR2?
i can send you a picture of the seat base and you may be able to tell me the build date :thumbup:
 

ozzy

Member
Yours is a uk model ? i think you did say it was!
what price list did you work too!
give me 5 mins and i well have the seat base numbers for you.
Thank you
 

ozzy

Member
Here you go i have took out the last numbers of the vin :thumbup:
this is all i have, in the way of stickers apart from the fuse panel tyre pressures :idunno:

 

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