Lithium Upgrade with (630AH) Lithionics Batteries

[treemaze]

What's Left

I fixed most things on my list of dislikes, but the underpowered Sterling 30A DC/DC charger is still there. Mainly because the options for 50-60A chargers and where to locate them didn’t seem worth it, based on size, cost, quality, heat dissipation. I’m sure I’ll replace it eventually though.

Tools and Material

Some of the tools I liked:
Step drill bit set – Makes larger holes without grabbing and tearing
TEMCo hex crimper – Makes beautiful crimps (after some practice)
TEMCo 4/0 cable cutter
Klein fish tape – Used to pull cables under fridge
Aluminum saw blade
Crimper for 22 – 8 AWG
18 x 5/8 inch drill bit – Used for hole from pantry up to roof
Victron MK3-USB Interface

Main components:
Micro-Air EasyStart 364 Installation Kit (worth it)	Victron MultiPlus 12/3000/120-50
Renogy 100W Solar Panels (Compact Design)	Victron SmartSolar 100/50
Lithionics GTX12V315A batteries	Victron SmartShunt
BEP Pro Installer Class T fuse holder	Victron GX Touch 50
BEP Pro Installer 770-EZ battery switch	Victron Cerbo

Other parts:
Bud Box for new circuit breakers	Terminal Block
120V circuit breakers	Nickel anti-seize
Butt splices for 6 AWG to 2 x 10 AWG connection	Split loom conduit
Aluminum channel for solar panel mounts	VE Bus (aka Ethernet) cable
3M 5952 VHB sheets	VE Direct cable
Touch 50 HDMI extension cable	Large heat shrink tubing
Touch 50 USB extension cable	Small heat shrink tubing
In-Line ATC fuse holders	Battery tiedown straps
Cable lugs	Aluminum plate for solar charge controller
Ring terminals	T Track to hold ¼” aluminum plate
Marine battery cable	Pipe to make copper bar
Battery cable	Adhesive backed cable tie mounts
Smaller 12V cable	Fan near MultiPlus
3 to 1 solar branch connector	Bolts, used with solar panel mounts and T track
50A DC breaker / switch	Solar panel cables
6/2 Romex	Footman’s loop for battery strap
Relay for Amp-L-Start	Switch on side of passenger seat
BEP Pro Installer link bar	Amp-L-Start
Solar entry gland	400A Class T fuse
MEGA/AMG fuse holder	MEGA fuses

 

[Danarbor]

treemaze, thank you for posting the incredibly detailed documentation of your electrical upgrade. It's hard, if not impossible, to overstate the value that you, luvuman, Diverbob and SSTraveler et al have made to this forum by sharing your respective knowledge and experiences upgrading the electrical systems in your coaches. So thank you once again for taking the time to document your electrical upgrade journey so that others on the forum may benefit from your experience.

 

[DiverBob]

Very nice writeup on your installation. I’ve been thinking of changing the propane switch setup myself plus I want to add another switch inside the cabin, this may be my next project. Thank you for sharing.

 

[SSTraveler]

Wonderful job Treemaze! I particularly like how you identify the goals you were trying to achieve with your modifications.
Thank you for adding your installation to this thread. Having a single thread keeps all the knowledge together and really makes for a valuable resource. When you start using your new system please report back on your experiences. I'm always interested to know how the planning, expectations, and real experience line up.

 

[treemaze]

Very nice writeup on your installation. I’ve been thinking of changing the propane switch setup myself plus I want to add another switch inside the cabin, this may be my next project. Thank you for sharing.

I thought LTV used to put a propane switch above the door -- discontinued that I guess. I think it would be nice to have an on/off indicator too, like the water pump has.

 

[lvuman]

Great installation with superb detail. It's great to have another installation that incorporates a newer model MB. It will be equally wonderful to have additional upgrades documented on other models too. I especially am looking forward to SSTravelrs and hopefully Kilpstr installations. They both do amazing work and are always graciously willing to share their journey with us. Thanks again Treemaze!!!

 

[SSTraveler]

Lithionics has just released the 12V125A-G31-5CND, a 125ah direct replacement for your Flooded Wet Cell or AGM deep cycle batteries, and is 25% smaller, only weighs 33lbs, and is priced competitively with the manufacturers of small 100ah Lithium batteries. A Leisure Wonder owner recently installed 2 of them in his step battery compartment (step compartments are typically sized among all Leisure models for 2 deep cycle sized batteries) for a total of 250ah and is loving his power! This new Lithionics 125ah Group 31 sized Lithium battery is an excellent, extra capacity battery, choice given all the features as follows:
-250 amp hours (225 ah usable power) in the same space as your old batteries, which allows for 90% usage (10%SOC), so more amp hours available to support
the entire coach.
-25% smaller than a Flooded Wet Cell or AGM deep cycle battery, and only weighs 33lbs.
-Fits perfectly in your step located battery box with no modifications required.
-Convenient On-off LED control switch right on the top face of the Battery.
-Remote control switch port
-Bluetooth APP and Diagnostics
-Excellent Bluetooth Connectivity Internal Battery Monitor, so no need for extra external battery monitors.
-Engine cranking capabilities....works with a battery boost switch.
-The NeverDie Power Reserve, High and Low Voltage Cutoff, High and Low Temperature Cutoff, Short Circuit Protection,
Bluetooth® App Support
-Marine Grade Plastic Case

Lithionics is working on adding an optional Heater kit and a new remote hard-wired state of charge meter/display. So this new Lithionics 12V125A-G31-5CND has nearly all the features of the more expensive 315ah battery, the Lithionics GTX12V315A-E2107-CS200 Battery, but at a third of the price. The only key differences between the 125 and 315, are of course the amp hour capacity, a plastic case versus an Aluminum case, and it doesn't have the internal heater kit (yet, but it's coming).

I picked the Lithionics 315ah Battery (GTX12V315A-E2107-CS200) for my step batteries replacement, but certainly would have considered this new battery if it would have been available. Contact Lithionics for more information or to ask about the Special Pricing for Leisure owners. If your top expectation of a battery is to get the most power capacity per cubic inch of your step located battery box, then look to Lithionics Lithium batteries to deliver. Why give up amp hour capacity per cubic inch just to save a couple of bucks. When I selected my Leisure Travel Van, I did so because I thought it was the best motorhome of it's type on the market! I applied the same comparison technique in my selection of a Lithium Battery, that's why I chose the Lithionics Lithium battery!

 

[SSTraveler]

Winnebago has put 2 of these new Lithionics 125ah batteries (12V125A-G31-5CND) in their 2021 Revel Sprinter and boast 5 hours of Air-conditioning run time. Here is a video demonstration. Winnebago has also put two 315ah batteries (GTX12V315A-E2107-CS200) in it's new 2021 Winnebago EKKO (Ford Transit chassis) and here is a video showing what it's added Balmar Alternator can do to charge the Lithionics batteries while idling and the Lithionics dual battery monitoring Bluetooth App display. As far as Air-conditioner run time, the devil is always in the detail. Obviously the Winnebago Revel is a 144" wheel base Sprinter Van conversion, so much smaller than any of the Leisures and the Coleman Mach 10 could be their smallest air conditioner model, so not ann apple to apple comparison to a Leisure. But I certainly can't wait to find out how the Lithionics 315 ah battery runs my Dometic 13,500 btu air conditioner/heat pump in my Leisure Unity!

 

[TampaSteve]

I'm sold on this new battery, but don't need or even want 2. That leaves me a real dilemma though. My two battleborns work perfectly. I'm 100% satisfied that they are US made (not that this is a big issue for me) and very safe. They have an industry leading 10 year guarantee. The attraction of the Lithionics for me is way more AH for the space it fits in. The on-off switch is a huge bonus too, and the extra safety features and full UL listing. The downside is its a single point of failure. Everything fails eventually, and this is no exception. I'm thinking if it fails thousands of miles from home the grief it would cause. First I'd have to throw away everything in my compressor fridge, and then return home in a dead coach with not even a working water pump unless the engine was running. Alternatively I guess I could pick up a temp throw away battery at an auto store to limp home with. But the grief and the PIA would be almost unfathomable. There is lots of other stuff on my coach that is "single point of failure" but everything else could be fixed or replaced, even on the other side of the country. So that gives me some pause for sure. For my usage the 200 AH Battleborns are right on the razor's edge of adequate, but just barely. Another third more AH would be nice. Edit: But maybe a pair of the new Lithionics 125Ah LiFePO4 could be in my future. Not quite as much kick as the 315 but I would sleep better knowing that if one fails I could continue my journey.

 

[SSTraveler]

Lithionics makes a variety of Battery shapes and sizes you might want to consider some of their other great battery options, like the 600ah (12v600GT), https://lithionicsbattery.com/product/12v-600ah-8dr-gt-battery/, that measures 23"Lx13"Wx13.5"H. A Leisure owner used one in his exterior tall storage compartment for a complete Lithium Battery/3000w inverter upgrade entirely in this location. I believe DiverBob came up with a space under his driver seat side Dinette in his TB model that this battery may have fit very well in. So when considering your own upgrade, investigate all the possible spaces and see which battery may work best for you.

 

[lvuman]

This is really impressive! 13% smaller with 25% more energy with Bluetooth! I see it is also approved for engine cranking with 1000 amps cranking power. Hmmmmm

 

[SSTraveler]

This is really impressive! 13% smaller with 25% more energy with Bluetooth! I see it is also approved for engine cranking with 1000 amps cranking power. Hmmmmm

I see where you are going, my AGM Group 49 chassis battery weighs 57.75 lbs and 13.9375"L x 6.875" W x 7.5" H. This new Lithionics 125ah battery is slightly taller in height than the current chassis battery, but you might be able to make it work since the top of the battery box is sloped and the Lithionics 12V125A-G31-5CND is not as long as the Group 49 chassis battery. You measured the chassis battery compartment when you were replacing your chassis battery, do you recall those figures and will this 125ah battery fit?

 

[curtismacc]

I picked the Lithionics 315ah Battery (GTX12V315A-E2107-CS200) for my step batteries replacement, but certainly would have considered this new battery if it would have been available.

SSTraveler I am confused. This sounds like you installed the 315Ah batteries but your accompanying photos show the 125Ah batteries. What am I not getting right?

 

[SSTraveler]

SSTraveler I am confused. This sounds like you installed the 315Ah batteries but your accompanying photos show the 125Ah batteries. What am I not getting right?

I will be installing a Lithionics 12v315GTX after I receive it tomorrow. If the Lithionics 125ah battery would have been available when I ordered the 315ah it would have been a difficult choice, they are both great batteries.

 

[curtismacc]

I will be installing a Lithionics 12v315GTX after I receive it tomorrow. If the Lithionics 125ah battery would have been available when I ordered the 315ah it would have been a difficult choice, they are both great batteries.

My question is how are the pictures showing the 125Ah battery consistent with what you are saying? So the pictures showing the 125An batteries installed under the step must be from someone else. Do you get what is confusing me now? Sorry for my lack of understanding but you are showing installation pictures of batteries you say you would have bought but do not have. Must be pictures from someone else then.

 

[SSTraveler]

My question is how are the pictures showing the 125Ah battery consistent with what you are saying? So the pictures showing the 125An batteries installed under the step must be from someone else. Do you get what is confusing me now? Sorry for my lack of understanding but you are showing installation pictures of batteries you say you would have bought but do not have. Must be pictures from someone else then.

The second sentence, " A Leisure Wonder owner recently installed 2 of them in his step battery compartment (step compartments are typically sized among all Leisure models for 2 deep cycle sized batteries) for a total of 250ah and is loving his power!"

 

[curtismacc]

Forgive me, it was a long post and I guess I lost continuity of thought. Anyway, the pictures are always helpful to see how the batteries actually fit. I was excited until I noticed is how much more expensive the Lithionics are compared to the BattleBorns, ~$1500 vs $950. That's a high premium for the amount of extra power, added features notwithstanding. I have been thinking of how to do the solar installation on my upcoming TB (due end of March) so I appreciate these posts.

 

[SSTraveler]

Forgive me, it was a long post and I guess I lost continuity of thought. Anyway, the pictures are always helpful to see how the batteries actually fit. I was excited until I noticed is how much more expensive the Lithionics are compared to the BattleBorns, ~$1500 vs $950. That's a high premium for the amount of extra power, added features notwithstanding. I have been thinking of how to do the solar installation on my upcoming TB (due end of March) so I appreciate these posts.

I wouldn't dismiss the battery based on it's MSRP. Lithionics gives a significant discount if you contact them and tell them you are a Leisure Owner. Their Factory direct price makes their cost very close to others and considering all the extra features it's well worth the investment. It's worth a few extra bucks to pack as many amp hours I can into my step compartment battery box. I got an incredible price on my Lithionics battery!

 

[lvuman]

I wouldn't dismiss the battery based on it's MSRP. Lithionics gives a significant discount if you contact them and tell them you are a Leisure Owner. Their Factory direct price makes their cost very close to others and considering all the extra features it's well worth the investment. It's worth a few extra bucks to pack as many amp hours I can into my step compartment battery box. I got an incredible price on my Lithionics battery!

I think comparing other lithium batteries to Lithionics batteries is like comparing apples to oranges. As SSTravler said, don't dismiss the battery based on it's MSRP. Everything considered it's just a few dollars more for the best on the market.

 

[hoosierrun]

I think comparing other lithium batteries to Lithionics batteries is like comparing apples to oranges. As SSTravler said, don't dismiss the battery based on it's MSRP. Everything considered it's just a few dollars more for the best on the market.

No doubt that they are a great battery and at the top of the game at this point. Two years ago, Battleborn was the leader and for those folks that bought and installed them, I don't see them replacing their batteries if nothing goes wrong during the 10 year warranty period. In 3 years, a new product will supersede the Lithionics product. It is the nature of technological changes in battery development which suddenly is making great strides.