Brakes detective work (beyond the reference chart)

MannyVanlife

New member
Just purchased a 2005 Freightliner 158 sprinter 160,000 miles, 16 inch wheels with the intention of doing a camper conversion it but
Needs TLC but the engine sounds healthy the body has minimal rust and I'm willing to put in the work.
I'm mechanically oriented and have done a few break jobs before.


-I've looked at the chart and understand the difference between the different Bosh/ATE configurations that it originally came with.
-The van did not move for a while and calipers were seized.
-The person who I bought it from replaced the calipers with remanufactured O'reilly's Bosch front and rear calipers.
- I'm certain they are the bosh version based on the 3 star logo and bosh stamp on all 4 calipers
- Yes I know O'reilly's is garbage but that's besides the point.


-After I closed the deal and drove it for a few miles the FRONT calipers were seizing and some of the caliper cylinder seals melted
I ended towing it to my mother's job who works at a large fleet maintenance diesel shop.
-They checked the Master Cylinder and Brake booster and it has a vacuum leak which makes sense since the van was not moving for a while and the seals were most likely corroded
- I ordered the TRW OEM master and booster from europarts.
-I measured the rotors and the front ones are 285 and rear 272 as per the chart that the rears should of been the ATE version.
-Looking at Europarts SD I see that the Bosh calipers (O'reilly's link below) were used on early 2002 models with 15 inch wheels.
-I don't have the calipers that were on the van so no way to compare



https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/...dodge/sprinter-3500?pos=18&fitAttr_10039=Rear


Please don't lecture me about using the MB original parts I'm trying to figure this mess so that I can correct it.
My question is upon looking at the part number on the link below, it actually says it fits the model and year for the 272 rotor.

What are the different possibilities here:

The mountain brackets bolt spacing for the ATE and Bosh are the same and compatible and is the reason they fit but should not be used for this van due to the different capacity?

At some point in the Van's life they did some kind of Frankenstein mounting bracket swap?

There was nothing wrong with the Master cylinder/ Booster and the issue was caused by the rear calipers changing the hydraulic pressure of the whole system.
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
Just purchased a 2005 Freightliner 158 sprinter 160,000 miles, 16 inch wheels

-Looking at Europarts SD I see that the Bosh calipers (O'reilly's link below) were used on early 2002 models with 15 inch wheels.
Sounds like a PO has changed from 15" to 16" wheels, it is a common upgrade for the older models.

Run your Data Card and see what wheels it was built with... http://mbepc.net/f/vin/

Keith.
 

MannyVanlife

New member
Too keep it simple I don't think you will be able to bolt up the wrong combinations of calipers and rotors.
Eurpparts will send you the correct parts. Can you post pictures?

bill in tomahawk
I bought the van in Florida but I live in California and I’m now back in California for a few weeks and will be relocating Florida to do the build.
Because I have the best resources there.
Unfortunately I didn’t take a picture of the rears but here’s a pic that my mom snapped of me while working
on the fronts and you can clearly see it’s the bosh front, I know all four are bosh based on a copy of the receipt.
Unfortunately O'reilly's won't return them because I'm not the original buyer and contacting the guy that sold me the Sprinter is out of the question.
If you’re telling that they won’t just bolt on I can tell you the rear bosh mounted without a problem which leads me to think that the axle was
replaced with an earlier version based on the Europarts specifications for that bosh caliper.
Is it possible that the MB used both ATE and Bosh rears at random based on availability?
If it helps this was not a Fed EX van it originally came from a Verizon wireless fleet.
3F0331FA-D0A3-4147-838A-DCE5859B3F43.jpeg
 

Attachments

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MannyVanlife

New member
Chassis
  • Market: AG,Europe
  • Order number:7 5 705 82745
  • Delivery date: 2005-02-22
  • Sales designation: 316 4X2 4025[MODEL_IDX = 4]
  • Paint code 1:: 9147 - PAINT COLOR ARCTIC WHITE MB 9147
  • Engine no.: 647981 51 022084
    Major assembly variant: A 647 010 59 00
    Part var. design.: 64798150
    Text
    DER BESTELLTE MOTOR MIT CODE N60 (MOTORABTRIEB VORNE) IST NICHT
    LIEFERBAR. BITTE MOTOR A 647 010 40 00 VERWENDEN UND DEN
    SCHWINGUNGSDAEMPFER, DIE TRAEGER UND SPANNROLLEN VOM ALTAGGREGAT
    UEBERNEHMEN ODER LAUT MICROFICHE/EPC NEU BESTELLEN.

    THE ORDERED ENGINE WITH CODE N60 (ENGINE OUTPUT FRONT) IS
    NOT AVAILABLE. PLEASE USE ENGINE A 647 010 40 00 AND TAKE THE VIBRATION
    ABSORBER, SUPPORTS AND TENSIONER PULLEYS FROM THE OLD ENGINE
    OR ORDER THESE PARTS ACCORDING TO MICROFICHE/EPC

  • Transmission: 722681 05 946061 [transmissionType = GA]
  • Steering: 050462060
  • Cab:
  • Transfer case:
  • Platform:
  • Front axle 1: 730415 S 879123
    Major assembly variant: X 006 800 301
    Part var. design.: 7304150
    Text
    ACHTUNG ACHSE OHNE BREMSSAETTEL UND FEDERDAEMPFERBEIN.
    ACHSE VL0 1,75TO MIT:
    SCHEIBENBREMSE

  • Front axle 2:
  • Front axle 3:
  • Rear axle 1: 741408 I 177403
    Major assembly variant: X 004 800 436
    Part var. design.: 7414080
    Text
    ACHSE HL0 2,2TO MIT:
    SCHEIBENBREMSE
    VERSCHLEISSANZEIGE S/W
    ACHTUNG !! ACHSE OHNE BREMSSAETTEL !!

  • Rear axle 2:
  • Rear axle 3:
  • Rear axle 4:
  • Exhaust system:
  • Battery 1:
  • Battery 2:
  • Battery 3:
  • Fuel cell 1:
  • Fuel cell 2:
  • Fuel cell 3:
  • Electric motor 1:
  • Electric motor 2:
  • Electric motor 3:
  • Electric motor 4:
  • Electric motor 5:
  • Electric motor 6:
  • SA code
    172 - FUEL PREHEATER
    580
    AC6 - AXLE RATIO I = 3.727
    B90 - WITHOUT LOAD-DEPENDENT BRAKE VALVE
    BB0 - BRAKING SYSTEM WITH ABS/ASR OR ABS/ETS
    BB3 - ELECTRONIC STABILITY PROGRAM (ESP)
    C38 - REAR SPRING FOR WEIGHT VARIANT 3,880 KG
    C42 - STABILIZER,REAR AXLE UNDER THE FRAME
    C45 - H.D. FRONT AXLE STABILIZER
    C47 - H.D. SHOCK ABSORBERS
    D03 - HIGH ROOF
    D50 - PARTITION PANEL FULL-WIDTH
    E88 - CIGAR LIGHTER
    EE8 - 12V BATTERY 100 AH
    EF5 - SOUND 10 RADIO WITH CASSETTE PLAYER AND 2 SPEAKERS
    EK1 - TERMINAL STRIP FOR ELECTRICAL CONNECTION
    ES5 - INSTRUMENT PANEL CHARGING PACKAGE
    F76 - GRAB HANDLE CO-DRIVER SIDE
    FG7 - STORAGE BOX AT CO-DRIVER SEAT
    FG8 - CUP HOLDER(S), FRONT
    FS4 - LEFT AND RIGHT AUXILIARY MIRRORS NOT HEATED
    G40 - AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
    H21 - ALL-RND.HEAT ABSORB.GL.W.BAND FLTR ON FR.WINDOW
    HH9 - SEMI-AUTOMATICALLY CONTROLLED TEMPMATIC A/C
    IL2 - EXPORT CODE
    J11 - SPEEDOMETER MPH AND KM/H
    J64 - MAINTENANCE INDICATOR FOR DRY AIR FILTER
    J65 - OUTSIDE TEMPERATURE INDICATOR
    JA1 - INDICATOR LAMP FOR WIPER FLUID LEVEL
    JW6 - ASSYST SERVICE INTERVAL INDICATOR
    K60 - TAIL PIPE LEADING STRAIGHT TO THE REAR
    KB0 - MAIN TANK 100 LITER
    KL5 - FUEL FILTER WITH WATER SEPARATOR
    L62 - READING LAMP
    L65 - COURT. LIGHTS F. TRUNK/PASS. COMP. W. DOOR CONT.
    L94 - ELIMINATION OF PARKING LIGHT
    LB5 - CENTER HIGH-MOUNTED BRAKE LAMP
    M39 - 14 V/150 A ALTERNATOR
    M96 - FUEL PREHEATER
    MC0 - ENGINE OM 647 DE 27 LA 115 KW (156 HP) 3800/RPM
    MF2 - ENGINE REGISTERED FOR "CARB STATES"
    N60 - ENGINE OUTPUT, FRONT
    P47 - MUDFLAP FRONT
    P48 - REAR MUD FLAPS
    R65 - SPARE WHEEL CARRIER UNDER FRAME END
    R87 - SPARE WHEEL
    RA5 - DROP CENTER RIMS 6 J X 16 H2 F. 225/75 R16
    RF8 - TIRE MANUFACTURER MICHELIN (80)
    RG8 - TIRES 225/75 R16 C
    RM0 - ALL-SEASON TIRE
    RM9 - TIRE MAKE SPECIAL REQUEST
    S22 - DRIVER'S SEAT ARMREST
    S25 - CO-DRIVER'S SEAT ARMREST
    SA5 - AIRBAG DRIVER SIDE
    SA6 - CO-DRIVER'S AIR BAG
    SB1 - DRIVER SEAT, COMFORT
    SB2 - PASSENGER SEAT, COMFORT
    SS4 - SANTOS FABRIC
    T16 - SLIDING DOOR RIGHT
    T85 - ENTRANCE GRAB AT CORNER PILLAR AT LEFT REAR
    T86 - ENTRANCE GRAB AT CORNER PILLAR AT RIGHT REAR
    V43 - WOOD FLOOR
    VA3 - LOAD COMPARTMENT INNER TRIM UP TO ROOF WASHABLE
    W54 - REAR-END DOORS, DOUBLE-WING, OPENING TO SIDE WALL
    W73 - REAR-END DOOR STEP
    WM0 - SPRINTER FACELIFT 2003
    X42 - PLATES / PRINTED MATERIALS ENGLISH
    X92 - COMPANY LOGO (MERCEDES-BENZ) DELETED
    XL8 - WEIGHT VARIANT 3880 KG
    XY5 - MODEL YEAR 5
    Y11 - BRACKETS USED FOR WARNING TRIANGLE
    Y17 - PRE-FITTINGS FOR FIRE EXTINGUISHER
    Y43 - HYDRAULIC JACK
    Z41 - APPROVAL AS TRUCK
    Z75 - BODYSHELL REINFORCEMENT
    Z81 - TIE-DOWN EYES
    Z90 - UNDERBODY CONSERVATION DELETED
    ZB6 - PRODUCTION PARTS KIT
    ZU8 - USA COUNTRY VERSION
    ZX9 - FREIGHTLINER EXECUTION
    9147 - PAINT COLOR ARCTIC WHITE MB 9147


SA numbers
  • 01
  • 01 522600/0201 522601/0401 522602/0101 522603/0701 522604/0801 522605/0601 522611/0501 522616/0801 522634/0101 522636/0701 522638/0201 522639/0101 522642/0201 522644/0101 522645/03
  • 03
  • 03 522606/0203 522607/0503 522608/0503 522609/0603 522634/0103 522640/0203 522641/0103 522650/04
  • 05
  • 05 522605/0605 522610/0405 522619/0205 522624/0205 522629/0105 522639/0105 522642/02
  • 07
  • 07 522612/0507 522613/0807 522614/0707 522617/1307 522647/1407 522651/09
  • 09
  • 09 522615/1009 522617/13
  • 13
  • 13 522618/03
  • 14
  • 14 522617/1314 522620/02
  • 15
  • 15 520059/1015 522603/0715 522605/0615 522622/1215 522630/10
  • 18
  • 18 522623/0418 522625/0318 522626/0118 522627/0718 522629/0118 522639/01
  • 20
  • 20 522628/0420 522632/0220 522646/0120 522661/0620 522672/0720 522675/09
  • 22
  • 22 522643/0622 522667/04
  • 32
  • 32 500024/1232 504039/03
  • 33
  • 33 500021/0233 500024/1233 500029/0633 500323/0333 504003/0233 504007/2333 504031/0133 504032/0933 504032/1033 504039/0333 504304/9133 530038/01
  • 35
  • 35 504000/0135 504001/2535 504003/0235 504004/0735 504005/0735 504006/0135 504007/2335 504008/0435 504018/01
  • 39
  • 39 504015/5039 504304/91
  • 42
  • 42 504000/0142 504008/0442 504013/0142 504014/0242 504015/5042 504016/0142 504025/1342 504031/0142 504304/91
  • 46
  • 46 504039/03
Modular system

Springs

Info text

Ира 33 года. Нью-Йорк. Ищу Друга


Amendment text display screen

Body manufacturer

Other

  • Dealer number
  • Rims: LEMMERZ
  • Lamps: HELLA/HELLA
  • Wipers:
  • Speedometer corr.:
  • EU approval date:
  • EU approval number:
  • Clutch:
  • Heater:
  • Trailer hitch
  • Retarder:
  • PTO:
  • Body: 3
  • Cable winch
  • PRODUCTION_NUM1 5619479
 

billintomahawk

'02 2.7 T!N Freightliner
Manny,
Did a brake job on my '02 2500. Got the wrong calipers from the local auto parts store despite trying to reason my way through the confusion and ordering. The incorrect parts would not fit. I was forced to Europarts as a result of my confusion and by the process of elimination I got the right combination of parts. It was painful and I never did get the proper brake shoes for the E-brake but the old ones worked. I had to replace the dust guards on mine which required replacing the axle bearings when they were removed. More parts needed.

Nasty confusing work complicated by road salt rust. I was forced to get help from my friends who are local mechanics. You will get it fixed and it looks like you will have a pristine van to drive.

bill
 
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MannyVanlife

New member
Manny,
Did a brake job on my '02 2500. Got the wrong calipers from the local auto parts store despite trying to reason my way through the confusion and ordering. The incorrect parts would not fit. I was forced to Europarts as a result of my confusion and by the process of elimination I got the right combination of parts. It was painful and I never did get the proper brake shoes for the E-brake but the old ones worked. I had to replace the dust guards on mine which required replacing the axle bearings when they were removed. More parts needed.

Nasty confusing work complicated by road salt rust. I was forced to get help from my friends who are local mechanics. You will get it fixed and it looks like you will have a pristine van to drive.

bill
I appreciate the encouragement and I understand that sprinters can be expensive to fix but I also don't want to just throw money way swapping out random parts. I'm trying to do what I can with the parts the seller put on so that I can do a full test drive and come up with a plan as to how much I want/can afford to put on this van to make it reliable before I start the conversion.

I took a chance on the Van because the engine sounded healthy and started right up, no black death, no blow back doing the engine oil cap test.
Other than some not so bad roof seam and windshield rust the body is in decent condition, as you can see by the rocker panels are intact.
The vin history shows some oil changes at pep boys 🤦🏻‍♂️ and a few visits to the dealer for service but the van was used as work van and neglected.

After verizon owned it it was owned by a plumbing company who left it in storage and unused for a year and that's when the last seller was able to put a lien on the title due to lack of storage payments and sell it to me.

As it sits I left the van with 4 new Rotors, brake hoses, remanufactured Bosch calipers with new pads.
The front ones I was able to spin the wheel and they spin freely the rears ones bolted right up but I forgot to lift the back and put it in Neutral to see if they spin freely but they bolted without a problem.
Since the Brake booster and and Master Cylinder won't arrive until later this week and I needed to get back to California and didn't bother to bleed to bleed and test the whole system because it needed to be done when the TRW OEM master and booster get installed.

I know this has been said before but WTF was mercedes thinking with this cluster 🤬 of brake parts.
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
First. The wrong caliper will certainly bolt up to the caliper frame. The OEM 16" wheel caliper frame mount remains the same.

...
Is it possible that the MB used both ATE and Bosh rears at random based on availability?
...
Highly unlikely. I don't recall any similar discussions on this board about Bosch vs ATE rear brakes.

...

I know this has been said before but WTF was Mercedes thinking with this cluster 🤬 of brake parts.
The NAS aka NAFTA 2500 Sprinters with 16" wheels use Bosch 2 puck calipers in the front and ATE single puck calipers in the rear. It is very consistent. Parts from local general parts stores can sometimes be inconsistent

Without the ability to put my hands on your vehicle, my guess is that your parts are not correct. A clue would be to measure the rear rotor diameter.
My 2004/2006 2500 rear brakes are ATE (272 mm rotor = approx. 10 3/4").

vic
 

MannyVanlife

New member
First. The wrong caliper will certainly bolt up to the caliper frame. The OEM 16" wheel caliper frame mount remains the same.


Highly unlikely. I don't recall any similar discussions on this board about Bosch vs ATE rear brakes.


The NAS aka NAFTA 2500 Sprinters with 16" wheels use Bosch 2 puck calipers in the front and ATE single puck calipers in the rear. It is very consistent. Parts from local general parts stores can sometimes be inconsistent

Without the ability to put my hands on your vehicle, my guess is that your parts are not correct. A clue would be to measure the rear rotor diameter.
My 2004/2006 2500 rear brakes are ATE (272 mm rotor = approx. 10 3/4").

vic
Okay so the bolting pattern is the same and I do have and kept the rear Rotors which did measure out at 272.
Weather their original MB or replaced prior is unknown because I didn't see any MB markings on them.

Back to bolting Bosh rears, what are the repercussions of using Bosh vs ATE rears?
Aside from the diameter were the earlier rotors also thinner or offset differently?
Can it damage the new Brake Booster/ Master cylinder that is being installed when the parts arrive at the shop?
Was that the actual cause of the front calipers sticking because the bosh rears changed the hydraulic bias?
Why did they change from Bosh to ATE was their a caliper capacity or defect?

Sorry for all the questions as a reminder I'm in California and the Van is in Florida. The van is at my mother's job.
They are a professional shop but don't specialized in Sprinters.
I won't be back for another month and if this can cause catastrophic damage to the brake system I'd just like to have the work halted until I can get back to the van and figure out this mess myself.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
I can't answer all of your questions.

It won't affect the hydraulic system with the possible exception of overheat damage if the pads bind/don't release completely.

The ratio of stopping power between the front and rear brakes is an engineering design. That ratio is affected by rotor size/surface area, hydraulic piston size, pad size/material, etc. I have no idea whether your replacement caliper set meets proper specifications or not. Improper parts can also affect the ESP safety system operation.

vic
 

MannyVanlife

New member
I can't answer all of your questions.

It won't affect the hydraulic system with the possible exception of overheat damage if the pads bind/don't release completely.

The ratio of stopping power between the front and rear brakes is an engineering design. That ratio is affected by rotor size/surface area, hydraulic piston size, pad size/material, etc. I have no idea whether your replacement caliper set meets proper specifications or not. Improper parts can also affect the ESP safety system operation.

vic
Thank you for your response luckily other than a quick ride around the block they're not going to be driving far.
Here's something else I had checked the Rear axle matches the build card serial and autohauz lists the bosh pads as compatible with this axle from 2002-2006 meaning it's possible that the bosh pads could have come installed with this axle from factory.
 

Attachments

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...m 2002-2006 meaning it's possible that the bosh pads could have come installed with this axle from factory.
Any brake manufacturer can make the proper part. In fact some of the identical parts with different brand names/logos are made in the same factories. As long as the Bosch caliper is made for the application it is fine.

You did open this thread by highlighting problems and questioning what parts were what on your truck though.

vic
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Found a Picture of the rears and based on the clips those look like bosh to me
:idunno:

As long as the calipers you have installed are designed for the application and are working properly for you, does brand matter?

The Sprinter replacement calipers that I have purchased came complete with the frame parts that bolt up to the axle mount. (18 mm heads on the bolts I have.)

vic
 

MannyVanlife

New member
:idunno:

As long as the calipers you have installed are designed for the application and are working properly for you, does brand matter?

The Sprinter replacement calipers that I have purchased came complete with the frame parts that bolt up to the axle mount. (18 mm heads on the bolts I have.)

vic
No I could care less and it actually makes it easier to replace pads in the future I guess my original concern is if it changed the dynamics of the hydraulic system, affected the ABS or was the reason why the front calipers were sticking.
Because according the the chart it should of been Bosh in the front and ATE in the back.

I didn't want to spend more money on the calipers so I took all four of them off because they were sticking exchange them for the same at O'reilly's and went ahead and also put in new rotors because as you can see here the guy who sold them just replaced the calipers and hoses and now I'm waiting on the Master cylinder and Brake booster to from Europarts to have the system bled and tested.
 

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