Injector question, '02 612 T1N

billintomahawk

'02 2.7 T!N Freightliner
I want to pull my injectors for testing. Some black smoke on acceleration and definite 'old school buss smell' with start up and idle.

I read the injector extraction write up and I have a puller kit sold by Million mile Sprinter. If an injector is stuck my understanding is that this kit will remove the injector but partial disassembly is necessary for the puller to fit. I need to know if the injector can be reassembled and tested(and reused) or worst case will still be an acceptable core? Here is the puller.


If anyone is experienced I'd appreciate some advice.

bill in tomahawk
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
What can I say about that puller ?
It works .
Made in China and its cheap to buy.
If you consider the expensive Snap On bridge like version or equivalents, it beats ALL others hands down for simplicity and effectiveness.

Yes, like all the others you have to strip the top half out to attach the puller mandrel.
I never even attempt or contemplate re-assembling it after removal.
Its a new one (injector) every time from the onset of making that decision to pulling it & using that that tool
That includes all the others we have at hand including a fancy schmancy one from Eurolandia.
Dennis
 
On my 2006 T1n om647 with 120K miles, I was able to remove all injectors without a puller and have cleaned up the injector wells without breaking the valve cover after black death. However is there any reason I should remove the valve cover? Should I check for damage or black death residue under there? How involved is it to remove? Thanks
 

trc.rhubarb

Active member
to the core question... having just gone through this with one of 5 stuck and needing a puller.
If you pull it and all is "undamaged", you can return for core.
If you pull and anything on the injector breaks, it's no longer valid as a core.

For me, the electrical connector cracked do to me being a bit overzealous and now i get to keep the body as a souvenir.
 

billintomahawk

'02 2.7 T!N Freightliner
Thanks everyone.

Here's a little ditty for Sunday viewing pleasure that is or could be empowering(or not).

Reassembly???

I don't really know but reason says I can reassemble my injector and send it off to be tested by the fuel injector shop.
How deeply I go into it maybe wouldn't matter if it is tested and passes.


To be continued and again, thank you.

bill
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
to the core question... having just gone through this with one of 5 stuck and needing a puller.
If you pull it and all is "undamaged", you can return for core.
If you pull and anything on the injector breaks, it's no longer valid as a core.

For me, the electrical connector cracked do to me being a bit overzealous and now i get to keep the body as a souvenir.
No mate.
As long as the body is there its a valid core.
Don't let counter people tell you otherwise.
I only buy from MB direct for their generous warranty purposes, and even then they don't question the butchered up crap injectors we put in the boxes as core returns.
Dennis
 

jrod5150

Well-known member
I think Bosch new are still avaliable. I like the injector pop method. I still find injector removal to be somewhat nerve racking
 

NelsonSprinter

Former Nelson BC Sprinter
Injector pulling to me is the last resort for black smoke, I wouldn't risk it until all Turbo system related checks were done, MAF etc, which i assume you have .
 
Recently, when I finally addressed almost a decade of glow plug idiot dash lights that always disappeared after a few starts and stops, I was pleasantly surprised that the Sprinter Pit Stop in San Diego, along with the removal of glow plugs and the module, also removed my injectors to put in new copper seals even though I had no indications of black death.

That nothing broke off on my 14 year old T1N is reassuring. That I had no signs of black death is also reassuring. That the Sprinter Pit stop included this is equally reassuring.

My faith in these T1N models has never been so fulfilled after having this glow plug and module and copper injector seal washers updated on a 14 year old van. I can only hope others will experience the same longevity, no matter the model year.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Just don't let it over heat!
Like injector copper washer and those plastic FIE pipes that suffer with heat & go brittle and fracture abruptly .
Dennis
 

billintomahawk

'02 2.7 T!N Freightliner
Injector pulling to me is the last resort for black smoke, I wouldn't risk it until all Turbo system related checks were done, MAF etc, which i assume you have .
Just don't let it over heat!
Like injector copper washer and those plastic FIE pipes that suffer with heat & go brittle and fracture abruptly .
Dennis
All scans have been done. All systems pass. I will retighten every intake air fitting again and look for leaks.
It's the damn knocking sound that is causing my concern and driven me to this point....
Lately I have been driving my van like a maniac trying to 'unplug' my injectors by running fuel through them.
I have to admit the knocking is less and the transmission engages more smoothly. I am starting to conclude that this German machine needs some seriously long hours on the autobahn with the gas pedal buried.
No egg shells on my fuel pedal.

Maybe after a hard run straight in the fuel tank some used ATF, a few table spoons of kroil a couple of shots of WD40 and PB Blaster and top that off with what's left of last winters diesel snake oil fuel conditioner plus at least one dose of Liqui Moly. I think I have some paint thinner and mineral spirits and a tin of Acetone for back up.

You get the jest. I have to mix up the above to soak the injectors so why not give it a try in the tank first?

Gotta shake the fear of the unknown.

I've been trapped in a woman friend's Dodge Promaster diesel build out and it's starting to get on my nerves with winter coming to the north country. A few more days and then the Sprinter is gonna get it.

That 'friggin Promaster. Needs some artwork and a little saxophone.


Thanks.

bill
 
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gs850gx

Member
Hey Bill,
You may recall I had a similar (same?) knock mentioned in another post that was resolved by replacing my no 5 injector. I narrowed that down by unplugging injectors and no 5 reduced the knock although did not eliminate it. Replacing the injector and seal eliminated the knock. Gone, has not come back.
I do think I have lost a mpg (from 22 to 21) but did not get the new injector coded either. I should go and have a smooth running test done and have all the coding checked.
Before replacing the injector, cetane and lube additives did seem to have a small but positive effect on the knock.
Best of luck,
Dan
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
But... Bill’s om612 will stall as soon as he unplugs an injector.

So Bill, you’ll need to dive deep with your Star tool and find the injector test functions. Those will let you switch off the injectors one at a time and isolate the knock...

You’re perhaps hearing a lack of pre-injection, which can be caused by a sticky/slow needle valve that can no longer open/close fast enough for the requested short spirt of fuel?

A system cleaner may help, but do be careful with snake juice into the fuel tank... those needle valves are sensitive little things.
I’d bet that the same buddies that did your brakes can set you up with the right cleaner - feed it straight into the filter inlet then catch the return stream at the preheater bypass valve and recirculate.

-dave
 

MillionMileSprinter

Formerly Type2Teach
Unfortunately, Bill can't unplug his injectors one at a time, NOR can he tell the STAR/XENTRY to do it because it can't.
Thats one of the downfalls of the 612 ECU that the 647 coding corrects.
The only way for him (or anyone with a 612) to turn off one injector at a time is to do what I did and posted about a few years ago. Put a BB in the hard fuel line going to the injector. This leaves the injector wiring connected but stops the fuel to the injector.
It works. I just had to do it a few weeks ago to narrow down a fuel system issue in a customers van.
I think if you search the forum for "running your van on 4 cylinders" you will find it in the T1N write up section.
 

owner

Well-known member
Am I the only one using the hook type puller? Why is there no love for that? If its just to do a seal then it leaves the injetor fully intact. I have done about 5 injectors with it, even reasonably glued in ones.
 

billintomahawk

'02 2.7 T!N Freightliner
Am I the only one using the hook type puller? Why is there no love for that? If its just to do a seal then it leaves the injetor fully intact. I have done about 5 injectors with it, even reasonably glued in ones.
Owner,
Any pictures of the hook?

bill
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
I have one!
As long as the injector(s) isn't stuck stuck it works!
But in about 90% of cases I see are so stuck you need a big mamu to pull them out.
I have even had a few that have sheared off the injector under mechanical pulling leaving the body still stuck in the head.
Then its an EDM job!
Dennis
 

billintomahawk

'02 2.7 T!N Freightliner
I'm going in.

A short video below.














My hands hurt.

I juiced them for 3 days with a mix of graphite penetrating oil, Liquid Wrench, PB blaster and WD 40.
After juicing the engine was idled for 20-30 minutes.

It is cold now in northern Wisconsin and snow is coming so the make-shift tent is a confidence build, but it is cozy inside the tent.

After the fourth cycle I did a 'mini-Linden', that is I loosened all the hold down bolts two turns and then retightened them.

I restarted the engine and loosened the hold down bolt on #5 front until it started bouncing and puffing, then I retightened it and moved to #4, same drill, puff puff, retighten, move to the next and so on until all the injectors had been loosed and bounced.

After that I loosened the fuel pipes and drove a screwdriver under the pipe GENTLY to lift it slightly and got busy on each injector, pulled the hold down bolts and the hold down and started rotating the injector while lifting. A combination of lifting and turning with fingers and pliers grabbing below the fuel pipe inlet plus MORE lube coaxed the injectors up and out. All the hold down bolts came out clean.

Did I mention sore hands. There is a suction and you need to break it. If I had to do it again I would make a mini slap hammer with a tongue on it to get under the injector but that would be way too easy.

The injectors are on their way to Williams Diesel Service in Ocala, Florida.

Wish I was going with them.

bill in tomahawk
 
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