20 horse power difference !

The 15 or more cycles is what is required for the ecu to indicate that all sensor loops are closed. Clearing codes or changing a battery will result in sensor loops being open and a failure of the test.

The inherent assumption is that the ecu maps are the same as was approved during certification of the vehicle, so that closed loop operation assures compliance. This is obviously not true if the maps have been modified.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
I provide no warranty for any product that someone else makes past verification of installation. You would need to speak to renntech about such needs :)
But that stated !!
Assuming I am attorney representing a client whose engine is blown with a Renntech product installed & is looking for financial relief because of it
What is your warranty policy as a proclaimed distributor and agent of this company when faced with a potential law suit?
.Do you have garage keepers liability insurance a basic fall back or an umbrella coverage as a business entity ?


Where is Renntech registered as a company business and if an overseas entity do they have a representative in the USA?
First the product to have any credibility it must come with a stated warranty and liability coverage .
Basics first
, because most Americans don't give a rip about EPA compliance when its convenient.
I will be interested to see (read) what is Renntechs 's policy is on this regarding Sprinters and in the meantime I will speak to MB of Littleton for their posture regarding this as we do lots of business with them and have registered Renntech as an agent .
Dennis
 

Bobnoxious

GONE FISHING
This is very inaccurate. If your statement was true, one should be able to disconnect the battery, connect it and go pass smog test, which is very far from the true. As a matter of fact on 2010+ vehicles if the power has been disconnected or fault code has been erased the vehicle must go thru 15 driving cycles before it can pass smog test.
15 driving cycles? I'm not disputing your claim I just want to know if you have supporting documentation because it's a very important topic.
 

Bawareca

Member
The 15 or more cycles is what is required for the ecu to indicate that all sensor loops are closed. Clearing codes or changing a battery will result in sensor loops being open and a failure of the test.

The inherent assumption is that the ecu maps are the same as was approved during certification of the vehicle, so that closed loop operation assures compliance. This is obviously not true if the maps have been modified.
I dont know what your idea for closed and open loop is, but it doesnt seem applicable in this case. The modern engine control modules are pretty smart with array of precise sensors to monitor the input, output and the emissions. After reset the ECU must verify that all systems related to the emissions and the engine performance are operating properly, which happens while driving in variable conditions. As a matter of fact a sniff test will not be able to test the engine and emissions as comprehensive as the ECU going thru driving cycles. The 15 driving cycles have nothing to do with all of that, it is just more stringent requirement that the engine will perform within limits for extended periods of time, not only 1-2 cycles. This will be the only difference between 2000-2010 vehicles and 2010 and up.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
The morons are not dying off. In fact I think think they are winning
Yes and this MB emissions debacle is a prime example of it .
They are winning because the law allows them to, and the motoring public as I stated don't give a rip about emission UNTIL it becomes a valid argument for a tort liability satisfaction in Anglo Saxon law interpretation.
Then they are all for it, until its inconvenient .
Boiled down the USA is not really ready for strict emission controls, the population just or merely pays lip service to it on the whole!

I bet you like many others are included.
Then its OK because everyone rejoices with a financial payout in a few meagre piasters.
Dennis
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
I dont know what your idea for closed and open loop is, but it doesnt seem applicable in this case. The modern engine control modules are pretty smart with array of precise sensors to monitor the input, output and the emissions. After reset the ECU must verify that all systems related to the emissions and the engine performance are operating properly, which happens while driving in variable conditions. As a matter of fact a sniff test will not be able to test the engine and emissions as comprehensive as the ECU going thru driving cycles. The 15 driving cycles have nothing to do with all of that, it is just more stringent requirement that the engine will perform within limits for extended periods of time, not only 1-2 cycles. This will be the only difference between 2000-2010 vehicles and 2010 and up.
Not so!
I detected high NOx emissions on Sprinter from the get go in certain conditions like low temp warm up & excessive idling conditions in open loop especially. Then as the system ages it gets progressively worse until it conks out at between 130,000 to185,000 miles of use.

It all goes undetected because most, if not all E test conditions nationwide are quick min /max rev situations on a dyno with opacity as the main concern.
If a proper test was to be conducted for about $250 to $500 per annum the diesel driving US population would be crying like newborn babes
For info, I/We bought as bonus surprise an emission test kit from a US Gov surplus auction which did give readings of ALL diesels emissions parameters.
In short that is why I have traditionally called it since 2011 Blurrtech ! :devilish:
Dennis
 
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Bawareca

Member
Not so!
I detected high NOx emissions on Sprinter from the get go in certain conditions like low temp warm up & excessive idling conditions in open loop especially.

It all goes undetected because most, if not all E test conditions nationwide are quick min /max rev situations on a dyno with opacity as the main concern.
I/We bought as bonus surprise an emission test kit from a US Gov surplus auction which did give readings of ALL diesels emissions parameters.
In short that is why I have traditionally called it since 2011 Blurrtech ! :devilish:
Dennis
As I wrote before, I dont need a fancy test equipment to smell the Sprinter exhaust when it's cold (I mean CA cold-under 70F) :)
 

126v8

Member
I do know that we have a van in California that is going to get smog tested with the tune on it so we will find out!

But also, this doesn't alter ANYTHING emissions related. Purely fuel/timing tables and a bit of boost regulation. This isn't a delete
Please let us know if it passes or not
Hope it passes LOL
 

Bawareca

Member
15 driving cycles? I'm not disputing your claim I just want to know if you have supporting documentation because it's a very important topic.
Bob, the 15 driving cycles may, or may not apply to the gassers only. I cannot confirm 100%. I mentioned it into the discussion because of the other guy's speculative claims regarding the CA smog check.
 

Bobnoxious

GONE FISHING
Bob, the 15 driving cycles may, or may not apply to the gassers only. I cannot confirm 100%. I mentioned it into the discussion because of the other guy's speculative claims regarding the CA smog check.
Thank you for your prompt response.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Most of their tunes are epa compliant. Working on this one as well. Doesn't delete anything at all.
Warranty is debatable since you can return to factory tune for reasons you may deem necessary.
To clear out all the chaff of advertising puffing here is a copy of Renntechs warranty posture:-

III. RENNTECH WARRANTY RENNtech’s objective isto enhance the enthusiast’s driving experience by designing and manufacturing the best performance and highest quality automotive products possible. RENNtech warrants that all RENNtech products are free from defects in material and workmanship. A. FOR VEHICLES NOT COVERED BY THE ORIGINAL VEHICLE MANUFACTURER’S NEW CAR WARRANTY. This warranty extends to the original owner only and is not transferable. The warranty begins on the date of purchase (invoice) and ends twenty-four (24) months from this date for parts, and twenty-four (24) months from this date for engine conversions. Due to the variety of modifications and changes made to MercedesBenz cars and/or engines that may affect the performance or durability of related components, RENNtech’s obligation under this warranty extends only to the repair or replacement parts manufactured or sold by RENNtech and not for painting, labor, or other parts/components. To file a warranty claim, parts covered under warranty must be returned with proof of purchase, installation and removal date, date of part delivery, customer name and address, type of car, year, engine number, odometer reading, and VIN number. - 3 - RENNtech, Inc. Disclaimer & Sales Policy RENNtech Inc. 7825 SW Ellipse Way | Stuart, FL 34997 | +1 (561) 845-7888 www.renntechmercedes.com | info @renntechmercedes.com No claims will be considered without valid proof of purchase, all this information and the original RENNtech part. Return freight charges must be prepaid by customer. COD returns will not be accepted. All parts replaced under warranty will become the sole property of RENNtech. B. FOR VEHICLES COVERED BY THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURERS NEW CAR WARRANTY. This warranty extends to the original owner and is transferable. The warranty begins on the date of part purchase. If the vehicle is currently covered by the original vehicle manufacturer’s new car warranty, RENNtech products are warranted for twenty-four (24) months or for the remaining term of the original manufacturers’ warranty, whichever is longer. RENNtech will pay for the replacement part (new or remanufactured) and labor at the official Mercedes Benz standard warranty labor rate. Labor will only be covered under this warranty, if the original installation was performed at a RENNtech authorized facility. To obtain service under this warranty, the vehicle must be brought, upon discovery of a defect in material and workmanship, to the workshop of any RENNtech authorized dealer, during normal business hours. C. EXCLUSIONS FOR BOTH WARRANTIES (A AND B) Parts showing evidence of misapplication, abuse, improper maintenance, alterations from their original configuration, or failure to follow installation instructions are expressly not covered by this warranty. RENNtech also reserves the right to make changes to products, or specifications at any time without obligation to modify earlier parts. No person, company, or other organization is authorized to assume for RENNtech any warranty responsibility or make binding judgments regarding warranties of any parts, which from time to time may become subject of a warranty claim. D. RENNTECH’S LIMITED PRODUCT WARRANTY SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDES: Shipping charges, towing and rental car charges, damage to a component or assembly due to installation of replacement parts with specifications that differ in any material respect from the original vehicle manufacturer’s or RENNtech parts, damage resulting from the unauthorized modification of a RENNtech part, damage resulting from the use of other manufacturers products in conjunction with RENNtech product or system, damage to clutch due to power shifting or abuse, maintenance services and parts when replaced during maintenance such as spark plugs, lubricants, fluids, engine tune-up parts, replacement of filters, coolant and refrigerant, mechanical adjustments or repairs which result from normal wear and tear, drive belts, light bulbs, damage due to the failure to perform maintenance services at the specified intervals or in accordance with the instructions in the owner’s manual from the original vehicle manufacturer or RENNtech product instructions, damage attributed to negligence, improper installation, improper treatment contrary to the instructions in the owner’s manual from the original vehicle manufacturer or RENNtech product instructions, damage resulting from improper or contaminated fuel, damage to a RENNtech component as a result of a collision or improper collision repairs, any vehicle/products operated and used in a competitive event, custom designed competition parts, incidental and /or consequential damages, including loss of time, inconvenience or loss of the use of the vehicle. RENNtech’s Warranty Policy only applies to RENNtech vehicles and products sold in the US and Canada. E. ECU Re-Flashes Re-Flashes of the upgraded RENNtech ECU Software are free of cost to the original owner of the Software during the OEM product warranty period (4 years from the purchase date). After expiration of OEM warranty and for second owner of RENNtech ECU Software upgraded vehicles, RENNtech charges a service fee of $500 ($200 for participants in the RENNtech Membership program) for reflash. Customers who wish to convert their ECU bench Tune to an HHT can do so for a fee of $1250 in addition to a sliding scale cost of the new tune. (Please consult our product specialists for specific cost.) After 6 years RENNtech does not offers re-flashes of ECU Tunes. Original owners of the ECU tune who wish to upgrade their tune will receive a Preferred Discount (15 %) on the purchase of new tune. ECU Software is VIN# -specific and can’t be used in any other vehicles. PLEASE NOTE: Due to the nature of ECU Programming and Hand Held Tuner Software products are nonreturnable and non-refundable. Software products that have been deemed defective the RENNtech Product Warranty covers an in-kind exchange of the product. - 4 - RENNtech, Inc. Disclaimer & Sales Polic

The legalese study is very reminiscent of Bullydog etc al who pedal these systems.

Of course its a free world, and you can do what you want!
Even set it on fire in a fit of temper or frustration I suppose , but clearly if you install this into your van and you have a serious mechanical failure other than claiming for an actual defect in the tune box itself, you are not going to get much financial relief if the engine goes "bang"!
OR all this extra power takes out your transmission at $6500 a pop.

Once I get some actual dealer info from an actual installer who is an MB agent I will post it.
Once again "New lamps for Old" only really happens in fairy tales, those that your mother told you when you were a little kid.
:devilish:
Dennis
 
Bob, the 15 driving cycles may, or may not apply to the gassers only. I cannot confirm 100%. I mentioned it into the discussion because of the other guy's speculative claims regarding the CA smog check.
That seems a bit condescending...
It is not 15 cycles. It is whatever it takes for the ECU to report the sensor loop as closed. For some systems it may be a single cycle, for others a specific set of operational parameters needs to be met. For Ca smog test what matters is that when they poll the system using the OBD port, the ECU reports the sensor loops as closed. If more than 2 systems report open, the vehicle will fail and require repair or retest.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
I will also share with you shortly what sections of your warranty get voided out in doing so.
MB of Littleton are to answer my specific request for details since they have done two such modifications on Sprinters as Rnnsport agents.
Dennis
 

grantwilson

FreedomVanGo
If I was worried about it, I wouldn't have done it.

If I was worried about a warranty, I wouldn't modify anything.

Sometimes there is more to life than worrying about every detail of everything.
We all have our own risk tolerance. If yours is low, awesome. Mine and many others are not.
I bought brand new fiat 124 spyder and proceeded to put 15k into the engine and suspension. Warranty was the last thing I cared about.

I'm not twisting your arm to modify your van. Merely sharing what is possible. Up to you if you want to or not.
 

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