Daimler AG to pay $1.5B to settle emissions cheating - 2010 through 2016 Sprinter vans with “BlueTEC II” diesel engines

[ECU]

Conspiracies? A 30 day waiting period so that they can make sure the checks to their foundations and PACs clear.
It is quite evident and provable that if you want legislation to go your way, you need to pay certain lobbyists and make appropriate donations.

 

[ReGULT51]

I'm wondering what effect the update will have on the life of the exhaust emission components. One would think that a reduction in pollutants could potentially mean less regenerations, with an associated reduction in heat cycling and longer life.

Me too. For my 4 cylinder, the sensor change doesn't seem major. I'm more concerned with what the software is going to do. I have a basic understanding of what the systems does, but will the software increase the rate of EGR? Since the DPF is not being changed, I'm supposing the emission issue isn't there. Will DEF be consumed at a greater rate? There's all these little details and I'm wondering what the impact would be on the emission system as a whole and how that will affect overall reliability.

Of course, at this stage it's still just a proposed settlement, but with the $$$ being flung around, my guess is that's going to be part that changes.

 

[avanti]

For my 4 cylinder, the sensor change doesn't seem major.

True. However, I wonder whether those new NOx sensors will be V.6 of the current design, or V.1 of a whole new one. Given how long it took them to make the old ones reliable, this could be a BIG difference.

 

[borabora]

Maybe I am overly optimistic but I think every part of the van that MB touches as part of the modifications will get an extended warranty and quite possibly not just the parts they touch but the entire emissions system. Worst thing that can and likely will happen is worse MPG. Currently I am averaging 25 mpg and I will be bummed if the fallout is substantial but I will happily sacrifice 1-2 mpg for an extra 50-60k miles emissions systems warranty.

 

[asimba2]

Me too. For my 4 cylinder, the sensor change doesn't seem major. I'm more concerned with what the software is going to do. I have a basic understanding of what the systems does, but will the software increase the rate of EGR? Since the DPF is not being changed, I'm supposing the emission issue isn't there. Will DEF be consumed at a greater rate? There's all these little details and I'm wondering what the impact would be on the emission system as a whole and how that will affect overall reliability.

DEF usage will definitely go up. Fuel consumption will probably go up a little, but I don't believe significantly-so. My 4 cylinder van consumes almost no DEF now, so I know that will go up by orders of magnitude. The newer V6 Sprinters (that presumably don't have the cheat software) use about 4X more DEF than I use, so I'm wondering if that's what we should expect.

 

[WinnieView1]

Maybe I am overly optimistic but I think every part of the van that MB touches as part of the modifications will get an extended warranty and quite possibly not just the parts they touch but the entire emissions system. Worst thing that can and likely will happen is worse MPG. Currently I am averaging 25 mpg and I will be bummed if the fallout is substantial but I will happily sacrifice 1-2 mpg for an extra 50-60k miles emissions systems warranty.

And cold hard cash in your pocket? Perhaps the additional emissions extended warranty will be similar to what's already in place and longer for some vehicles in some states.
Theses pages from our 2014 Warranty Manual show the lengths for emissions warranty and how they differ and are extended in some states;

 

[avanti]

Maybe I am overly optimistic but I think every part of the van that MB touches as part of the modifications will get an extended warranty and quite possibly not just the parts they touch but the entire emissions system.

Do you think that this warranty will cover my family vacations spoiled by a "10 starts remaining" message?

 

[RVBarry]

There is an ignore function on the profile page, but it does not seem to have a way to enable and populate this list.

Hi, Click on the username next to a post. Click Ignore.

 

[borabora]

Do you think that this warranty will cover my family vacations spoiled by a "10 starts remaining" message?

Well, I think you know the answer to that question. But the question is only relevant if the modifications reduce reliability. Let's hope that's not the case.

 

[avanti]

Well, I think you know the answer to that question. But the question is only relevant if the modifications reduce reliability. Let's hope that's not the case.

(I DID mark the sarcasm.)
It most certainly also applies if the reliability remains unchanged. I guess we can hope that it gets vastly better.

 

[mikeme]

Information on Daimler AG

www.daimler.com

MB outlines that the cash for current owners will be provided contingent on them getting the fix installed. (not yet clear what "up to" means)

so the choice will be up to each of us with an impacted vehicle.

keep an eye on wherever the post office delivers your mail.

 

[showkey]

Information on Daimler AG

www.daimler.com

MB outlines that the cash for current owners will be provided contingent on them getting the fix installed. (not yet clear what "up to" means)

so the choice will be up to each of us with an impacted vehicle.

keep an eye on wherever the post office delivers your mail.

It might take a while 6-12 months would be very possible ( unless there are strict time lines set in the settlement) .........like the air bags recall............they have to form the plan that covers all the Contingencies, make the parts, ship the parts, train the dealers. Then add any delay works in their favor, every month a few more Sprinters leave the roadways, which means a few less vehicles to fix.
It might happen faster if they were motivated as this litigation as been going on for years........so they may have a head start. Not likely if they motivated they would not have dragged the settlement out for years........those years took 1000’s of vehicles off the fix list.

 

[Deleted member 50714]

All things comes to those with the virtue of patience.

 

[ReGULT51]

From the settlement it appears they have three years for at least 85% of the vans to have the work done. Gotta think they’re thinking that a not insignificant portion of vans will be off the road by then....perhaps by some other form of planned obsolescence

 

[jzf0fk]

So, I read a bit more into the EPA link that ReGult51 posted. There penalty for low compliance is as follows:

Daimler AG and Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC Clean Air Act Civil Settlement | US EPA

Information about the Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Clean Air Act Civil Settlement

www.epa.gov

Daimler must install the AEM in at least 85% of the U.S. Sprinter vehicle fleet (“National Sprinter EMP Rate”) by three years from the Effective Date of the consent decree or three years from approval of the last-submitted Sprinter EMC (EMC 3), whichever is later
....
For each percentage point by which Daimler falls short of the National Sprinter EMP Rate, Daimler must pay a civil penalty of $9,137,866 to the United States. There are separate California EMP Rates under the consent decree for Passenger Cars and Sprinters registered in California. Daimler must meet the 85% California Passenger Car EMP Rate and 85% California Sprinter EMP Rate or pay $1,325,910 and $1,485,655, respectively, for each percentage point by which Daimler falls short of the California EMP Rates.

There are about 160,000 Sprinters in this recall and 85% is about 136K van. If there is enough of us holding out from the recall, they might sweeten the pot to make us take the recall..

So, say there is only 80% compliance, then the penalty is 5 x $9.1M >>> $45M. That would be for 8000 vans for 5% point. That is $5625 per van in penalty......

I just wonder if we don't take the deal, could we re-register our van....

I think in the VW deal, VW bought all the cars back. Maybe someone knows a bit more on this...

 

[lindenengineering]

I think in the VW deal, VW bought all the cars back. Maybe someone knows a bit more on this...
[/QUOTE]
Then reselling them after getting them into compliance!-----For a premium price at select dealers . One is here in Denver.
Remember the US has big VW aficionado base.
Dennis

 

[WinnieView1]

Refer to this thread;

No Diesel Allocations for 2021?

4x4 lowtop on order since August, dealer calls and days only gassers available in allocation. Diesel recertify process likely through next summer.....means seriously dwindling inventory of 4x4 vans... Thought I would share what I was told.

sprinter-source.com

 

[mikeme]

I think in the VW deal, VW bought all the cars back. Maybe someone knows a bit more on this...

I had a 2009 TDI jetta wagon. (learning and observing the emissions system was a bit of a hobby for me)

the deal VW made with the various agencies included an approved fix (hardware and software), and incentives for owners.

at first, they sent gift cards for $500, (usable at VW dealers), just as a "sorry we screwed up." The guy that approved that was fired not too long after.

VW calculated an offer price based on the value of each car when the scandal hit the news.

They also calculated an incentive for each car, based on model year and miles driven. (with a minimum of $5000)

Owners were offered the choice of a fix and the incentive, or a buy back which included the same incentive amount, as well as the calculated buy-back price. Owners also were free to ignore the whole thing and keep the original car. (Some locations with bad air quality required the update be applied before renewing registration.)

The fix came with extended warranty protection, and did have some technical changes to the performance of the original vehicles.

I went for the fix, even though I had 205,000 miles on my little car. (The car served me well, and I paid $300 for a lifetime XM radio subscription, and I was determined to get my money's worth out of it.)

When I dropped the almost ten-year old car at the local dealer, they gave me a loaner car, and installed the new parts (including a new DOC/DPF to replace the one on my car which had cracked by then), but when they went to update the software in the transmission (to modify shift points slightly), the computer feigned deafness, and would not listen. my early-production car had a slightly different configuration of computer and software in the transmission than the fix they had prepared, so it was an outlier.

With the unapproved mix of new hardware and old software, they pushed the car out of the garage, and under a tree filled with birds (you can guess the result). This was in August of 2017, Over the next few months, I went through a few different loaner cars, and became good friends with the service agent, who I pestered on a regular basis.) By November, ski season was coming up, and I needed a functional replacement for the wagon. I convinced them to let me change from a fix to a buyback, and they paid me a bit over $10k for the car. (Bosch later sent a check for a few hundred dollars more for their part in the scandal) I ended up buying an end of year 2017 4 motion Golf wagon with a gas motor, and moved the car-top camper (which was on top the TDI) to the new car, and drove off.

If you are still interested after this post, you can spend/waste a few hours or days reading more:

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

forums.tdiclub.com

 

[lindenengineering]

Thanks for posting.
I always get a kick out of owners' posts as opposed to the dealer /tech back ground storyettes from the workshop where I tend to dwell.
Some of the threads you attached I have browsed over & already its a stark albeit reminder of the essential element reflecting the microcosm of auto consumer life in NA as a whole..

Its shaping up as I read through it to have all the elements of a good Dickens style novel, injected with some comedy based upon a background of the essential elements, notably a Greek tragic style background and with the usual humanistic qualities.
quote "Pushed out under the trees and the birds bit " is already the basis of a funny storyline .
My missus is always urging me to sit down after 60 odd years in this business and write such a novel, frequently saying it would be a worlds'
best seller!
Cheers Dennis

P.S
Here's one, I bet it will be a common thread throughout (as usual ) and could easily be any of the major brands, being an all too common thread!
I love this one. It has that mentioned humanistic Greek tragedy about it, even with a Shakespearian twist " Oh woe is me!" Where Hamlet scorns Ophelia.

So to sum it all up, my complaints are as follows.

1. VW cheated and sold me a lie.
2. VW has not communicated any info on great deals to keep me.
3. Local dealers are incompetent at sales and or lying as dealers often do.

 

[lindenengineering]

First a big thanks to MikeMe who by posting a link to the VW owners forums giving me hours of amusement in reading some of the comments.
That stated, there are two links to actual videos about the subject which are are very well worth watching .

The first one is this:-

Then if you want a bit of insight into ECM hacking then this is a bit more 'heavy watching" but well worth the concentration.

Enjoy Dennis