Daimler AG to pay $1.5B to settle emissions cheating - 2010 through 2016 Sprinter vans with “BlueTEC II” diesel engines

Sinatorj

Member
So I have a question, What changed in 2017? I have a 2017 170ext 4x4 cargo. Am I going to be immune from emissions issues, did they change out everything that was an issue, do we not care anymore?
 

WinnieView1

2014 Winnebago View 24G
Incorrect. VW was not required to buy back all of the non compliant cars. There were several engines and emissions system variants covered under the settlement. Some were offered modifications only (newer vehicles) others modification or buyback. We selected the buyback on our ‘10 VW Jetta and took the modification+$+additional warranty on our ‘13 Audi Q7.

The warranty has proved valuable and even covered items clearly not related to the emissions modification (engine out for leaking rear main seal!)

I’m sure Mercedes learned quite a bit from the VW fiasco and owners will likely see a less generous if not more streamlined settlement.
Former Audi CEO Stadler faces diesel fraud charges in German court

 

Dzler

New member
So I have a question, What changed in 2017? I have a 2017 170ext 4x4 cargo. Am I going to be immune from emissions issues, did they change out everything that was an issue, do we not care anymore?

VAGs getting caught cheating in 2015 changed it.
 

mikeme

2015 LTV IB: 2015 3500 V6
The sharks are in the water.

got a letter today from a law firm offering to represent owners who choose to opt out of the class action, and sue as individuals.

the letter is in the trash
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
So I have a question, What changed in 2017? I have a 2017 170ext 4x4 cargo. Am I going to be immune from emissions issues, did they change out everything that was an issue, do we not care anymore?
Immune from emission systems problems ?
No! Don't be a dreamer !
In short you will still have to maintain it just like petrol (gasser engines) . The catalyzers and control sensors are just as expensive to maintain & replace as diesel applications if not more !
The grass is never greener (excuse the pun) in the auto business
Dennis
 

mikeme

2015 LTV IB: 2015 3500 V6
So I have a question, What changed in 2017? I have a 2017 170ext 4x4 cargo. Am I going to be immune from emissions issues, did they change out everything that was an issue, do we not care anymore?
The model year emissions certification for MB vehicles for 2017 was done with knowledge of the cheating in certification testing. MB decided to skip diesels for other than sprinters, and the approval for sale of sprinters was delayed. The specific changes in testing, vehicle software and mechanical equipment are not obvious, or well documented. It is even possible that approval of the 2017 sprinters (and the 2018 year) included discussion of the anticipated model update, and plans for electric vehicles.

As Dennis says, maintenance and repair of the emissions equipment is still important and expensive.

It may end up that emission-related recalls for 2016 and 2017 model years are issued at a later date, but the class action suit which provides the owner incentives ($$$) will not apply. (you knew there were pending issues when you purchased the vehicle, or should have. I want to guess that marketing claims were also modified for the 2016 model year)
 

Dzler

New member
Not really!
The VAG used what is known as an LNT emission control system, is not quite Bluetec.
Dennis
Really. VAG used LNT (4cyl TDIs only) and SCR (4 and 6cyl) across their models . Not one model from 2009-2016 was compliant when the defeat software was discovered. They were the first of the diesel automakers to get caught. It’s not coincidence MB models after 2016 achieved compliance.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Really. VAG used LNT (4cyl TDIs only) and SCR (4 and 6cyl) across their models . Not one model from 2009-2016 was compliant when the defeat software was discovered. They were the first of the diesel automakers to get caught. It’s not coincidence MB models after 2016 achieved compliance.
Yes and like most manufacturers like even domestic manufactures they fudged it AND got caught. Navistar MaxForce comes to mind.
Was the end result worth it you might ask?
For me it ended up on a positive note, but if the correspondence on these forums about topics such as tearing emission controls out & straight piping it is any indication, then its the opposite!

As I always state the USA is not ready for emission controls, and that applies on many platforms ranging from sectors of political policy to the individual, who states as a common thread denominator "it doesn't apply to me and its all a rip off."! :devilish:
Dennis
 
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avanti

2014 GWV Legend 3500 I4
As I always state the USA is not ready for emission controls
Or, maybe the USA isn't ready for obsolescent 20th century technologies whose fundamental lack of viability is papered over by ridiculous, incompetent engineering hacks that the pubic is then expected to pay for over and over again. Kind of reminds me of the sad saga of the Space Shuttle thermal tiles. The results will be analogous.

One can choose to believe that petrol engines are just as bad. But it just ain't so.
 

Kajtek1

2015 long/tall limo RV 2.1l
USA is not ready for small diesels period.
Driving big pickups for over 20 years, it wasn't till about 2015 before Ford come with good diesel for their SuperDuty.
Even than, my 2017 pickup develop oil pan leak at 20k miles. Suppose warranty job required pulling the engine.
Last owned by e MB who had weak pan gasket was 1985 model.
As for being ready for emission requirements - California usually is the 1st who makes high requirements and new prototypes will always have baby teeth.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Or, maybe the USA isn't ready for obsolescent 20th century technologies whose fundamental lack of viability is papered over by ridiculous, incompetent engineering hacks that the pubic is then expected to pay for over and over again. Kind of reminds me of the sad saga of the Space Shuttle thermal tiles. The results will be analogous.

One can choose to believe that petrol engines are just as bad. But it just ain't so.
Have you worked on any recent renditions of GDi technology where the engine wont run without a computer after a 60 second cold start OR a total shutdown aka Sprinter Bluetec because of miss fires and maintenance neglect?
Can you imagine the distinct stage where particle emissions for gasoline engines are on the blocks for the near future?
Dennis
 

Sinatorj

Member
The model year emissions certification for MB vehicles for 2017 was done with knowledge of the cheating in certification testing. MB decided to skip diesels for other than sprinters, and the approval for sale of sprinters was delayed. The specific changes in testing, vehicle software and mechanical equipment are not obvious, or well documented. It is even possible that approval of the 2017 sprinters (and the 2018 year) included discussion of the anticipated model update, and plans for electric vehicles.

As Dennis says, maintenance and repair of the emissions equipment is still important and expensive.

It may end up that emission-related recalls for 2016 and 2017 model years are issued at a later date, but the class action suit which provides the owner incentives ($$$) will not apply. (you knew there were pending issues when you purchased the vehicle, or should have. I want to guess that marketing claims were also modified for the 2016 model year)
The end of my reply more sarcasm than anything else. I realize that proper maintenance is key. Just was wondering if they had some better revision of NOX sensors, DEF components, etc...
 

Kajtek1

2015 long/tall limo RV 2.1l
I think "knowledge" is more appropriate than "maintenance"
First owners of DPF equipped vehicles were not able to monitor regeneration cycle and most of them had no idea what it takes to keep DPF healthy.
When you drive car on 3 miles commute- you WILL have trouble with DPF.
Than DEF tanks were overengineered IMHO.
You should not be forced to replace $2400 tank, when $5 heating element fails.
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
The end of my reply more sarcasm than anything else. I realize that proper maintenance is key. Just was wondering if they had some better revision of NOX sensors, DEF components, etc...
To quote Renault.
We are limited by materials and cost!

Now as a related issue don't for one minute think its just 'Motors" !
The industry involved in scrubbing power station emissions equipment is struggling with the same issue but on a much bigger scale.
Dennis
 

Sinatorj

Member
I think "knowledge" is more appropriate than "maintenance"
First owners of DPF equipped vehicles were not able to monitor regeneration cycle and most of them had no idea what it takes to keep DPF healthy.
When you drive car on 3 miles commute- you WILL have trouble with DPF.
Than DEF tanks were overengineered IMHO.
You should not be forced to replace $2400 tank, when $5 heating element fails.
Hear ya, generally only drive van on out of town and ski days, however have been forced into using for commute a dozen days this fall as wife's daily driver been in and out of shop. Usually follow up a few days of commute duty with longer trips, 20+ miles nonstop. As soon as warrenty done tho... prob look into options 🤔
 

Kajtek1

2015 long/tall limo RV 2.1l
Hear ya, generally only drive van on out of town and ski days, however have been forced into using for commute a dozen days this fall as wife's daily driver been in and out of shop. Usually follow up a few days of commute duty with longer trips, 20+ miles nonstop. As soon as warrenty done tho... prob look into options 🤔
Get ScanGauge, or other monitor and observe sot build up. Our sedan is used mostly in the city, but observing sot building to 100%, I can plan on making sure I have fuel for regeneration and when regeneration starts, I can take extra loop to avoid abortion.
Once DW aborted regeneration coming home, but following day I took the car and regeneration resumed once engine come to 60C.
Popular knowledge is that single abortion will not do a harm, but if you do it 3 times in the row- the lights might start flashing.
 

Sinatorj

Member
Get ScanGauge, or other monitor and observe sot build up. Our sedan is used mostly in the city, but observing sot building to 100%, I can plan on making sure I have fuel for regeneration and when regeneration starts, I can take extra loop to avoid abortion.
Once DW aborted regeneration coming home, but following day I took the car and regeneration resumed once engine come to 60C.
Popular knowledge is that single abortion will not do a harm, but if you do it 3 times in the row- the lights might start flashing.
Does Touque app indicate regen? I have Autel ap200, but find it no fun to try and monitor live data. Would be nice to find something not requiring hard wire.
 

Kajtek1

2015 long/tall limo RV 2.1l
Does Touque app indicate regen? I have Autel ap200, but find it no fun to try and monitor live data. Would be nice to find something not requiring hard wire.
Not Torque Pro, but ScanGauge.
They have X-gauge for it, however on my Sprinter it shows regeneration pending 90% of the time, so not much usable.
However once you see sot level counting down, you know. .
ScanGauge is not cheap, but can be permanently plug in and still the price is 1/100 what consequences of not having a monitor can cost you.
 

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