Daimler AG to pay $1.5B to settle emissions cheating - 2010 through 2016 Sprinter vans with “BlueTEC II” diesel engines

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Bob your photo post?--Off to the C A F E are they to meet the real group of crooks behind all this?
Talk about the BIG criminals fining the lesser criminals!
No real standards you see !
Think about it?
Dennis .
 

Bobnoxious

GONE FISHING
Bob your photo post?--Off to the C A F E are they to meet the real group of crooks behind all this?
Talk about the BIG criminals fining the lesser criminals!
No real standards you see !
Think about it?
Dennis .
I dunno Dennis, there will always be Robber Barrons, just ask your employees.
,
BTW, peace, love and health to you and family! :hugs:No snark.
 

MIK3

Member
Sounds like they may not do anything if your emissions are compliant, and if out of spec, what sort of repair(s) might they conduct that would bring the emissions into scope?

Mike
 

ZekesAutowerks

Sprinter service WNC
The vast majority of light duty diesel and passenger car diesel fuel and emissions components are made by one manufacturer.... Bosch. VAG even pays licensing rights to Mercedes for use of the "AdBlue" SCR system. I do find it ironic how the German auto builders seem to be the only ones caught out by this knowing full well that domestic auto companies are doing the same. It all boils down to political BS, we were denied these vans for decades due to the "chicken tax" and now the domestic builders are scared.... look at the van offerings from GM/Ford/Dodge... they have begun to bring over the European market models to compete with Sprinter.

As someone with a STRONG Volkswagen background i was sad to see VW get crucified like they did, i own and drive several TDI models and its my belief they are some of the best cars ever made. BUT diesel is out, we must all turn to electric! Convenient timing.
 

ZekesAutowerks

Sprinter service WNC
Bob your photo post?--Off to the C A F E are they to meet the real group of crooks behind all this?
Talk about the BIG criminals fining the lesser criminals!
No real standards you see !
Think about it?
Dennis .
CAFE absolutely sets lofty goals for car manufactures to reach. The USA is a huge car market, use to be the biggest but i think China has now outpaced us. (They are still building 80's model VW's in China) They set so many silly goals for car builders and we, the public get the raw end of the deal... as with most things related to the government. So much focus on emissions from cars and trucks no one looks at airplane, cruise liner, and shipping emissions. Its all a racket, i see it every day..... telling Sprinter customers they need a new DPF, NOx sensors, SCR heaters, thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs. I dont make monkeys, i just train em .
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
"The company said it is not obligated to buy back the vehicles, as Volkswagen was, nor will it have an independent monitor to track its progress on the settlement".

"Daimler said owners of model year 2009 through 2016 Mercedes cars and 2010 through 2016 Sprinter vans with “BlueTEC II” diesel engines will be notified of recalls to fix excessive vehicle emissions. Customers will receive letters starting late this year, and the company will set up a customer website, Daimler said in a statement".

Allow me to translate as I am expert in these affairs: Gooberment and lawyers get all the money, we'll take your vehicle, screwed up so it will run worse when we give it back, and consumer SOL!

What a colosal crock of male bovine fecal matter! Please explain how it can be "fixed" now but not when manufactured? NEED ANOTHER LAWSUIT POST HASTE! SOB's!
Good lord. Our VW TDi was part of the lawsuit, and post fix - they're now highly desirable. I get a massive warranty 160K miles and something like 11 years, it runs just like it did before the fix, and my mpg is as good as it always was. DEF consumption went up a bit, idle at altitude increased, and the fan duty is a bit higher after I shut down. Anyone getting the fix from MB will get new parts, cleaner running vehicle, and get a nice bump in warranty.

From your post, you may want to step away from the computer and try some yoga.
 

asimba2

2016 4cyl High Roof 144
Good lord. Our VW TDi was part of the lawsuit, and post fix - they're now highly desirable. I get a massive warranty 160K miles and something like 11 years, it runs just like it did before the fix, and my mpg is as good as it always was. DEF consumption went up a bit, idle at altitude increased, and the fan duty is a bit higher after I shut down. Anyone getting the fix from MB will get new parts, cleaner running vehicle, and get a nice bump in warranty.
My friends with TDI's said the exact same thing. Some let VW buy their cars back and now drive gas cars...they've all stated how much they miss their diesels.
 

showkey

Well-known member
The fist thing you need to ask is, when did Honda or Toyota bring diesel vehicles to US? Besides the bigger truck... Were there any diesel sedans and SUVs, and pickups imported from Asia? Why a Nissan Titan, as an example, uses a Cummins engine? Do you think that Nissan cannot build one? There is more to it than you think...
In that time frame Honda, Toyota and Mazda had a very successful diesel fleet in Europe and other areas. At this same time MPG was the goal and all three had diesels in midsize Accord/Camry and SUV that were getting compact Type economy of 40+ MPG.

They all announced they did not want to use DEF as the solution .......But it was the only solution .......But it was not reliable and cost effective. So they canceled all their diesel Car and SUV plans for NA.

As it turned out they were RIGHT.
VW went with no DEF...........everyone questioned how they were meeting the NOX standard at that time.........turns out they did meet the standard and cheated on the test.
MB used DEF .......2010 DEF Sytems were and are disaster. PLUS......As this recent announcement says......they also cheated.

EPA testing is a self test and the manufacturers submit there test results to the EPA. Honda and Toyota were caught up in a so called cheat years prior on mis-fire detection. Honda and Toyota read the standard one was way, as other EPA interpretations were another way..........Honda just paid up and extended the emissions warranty, Toyota fought in court and never corrected the problem.

As for the Germans being picked on.......Similar stories with
EPA Agrees to Examine Truck Emissions Claims in Navistar Settlement around this 2010 time frame.
Evinrude had problem with their 2 stoke alternative engine that was an equal disaste.
There a dozen other manufacturers having problems ( fudged) center around MPG testing. Same with HYBRID testing......similar today with all electric and range claims. Car and Driver published a recent article on Tesla’s claim of 401 miles per charge vs Porsche only claims 201 miles.
 
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Dima74

Independent & Self Reliant - From Chattanooga TN
In that time frame Honda, Toyota and Mazda had a very successful diesel fleet in Europe and other areas. At this same time MPG was the goal and all three had diesels in midsize Accord/Camry and SUV that were getting compact Type economy of 40+ MPG.

They all announced they did not want to use DEF as the solution .......But it was the only solution .......But it was not reliable and cost effective. So they canceled all their diesel Car and SUV plans for NA.

As it turned out they were RIGHT.
VW went with no DEF...........everyone questioned how they were meeting the NOX standard at that time.........turns out they did meet the standard and cheated on the test.
MB used DEF .......2010 DEF Sytems were and are disaster. PLUS......As this recent announcement says......they also cheated.
The reality is that, the Japanese are more likely not allowed to bring their diesel engines in US and it is not that they don't want to... They will gladly flood the US market with all kind of diesel engines if they were allowed to do so, just like with the gas engines. So like I said, there is more to it...
 
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davisdave

2005 140 tall passenger
Anyone familiar with the Laffer curve? Applied to emissions, it could be argued that there is a point where emissions standards get so tight that emissions will actually increase due to cheating instead of complying. Are we there?
 

davisdave

2005 140 tall passenger
Emissions could be reduced greatly in one simple way...dont burn so many barrels of oil for "recreation". How many miles you got on those RV's?
 

danski0224

Active member
Bob will you include GM, FCA (Chrysler) plus Cummins, Oh & what about Ford and its hoodwinking of the buying pubic?
All coming under the focus of the DoJ.
AS labeled CROOKS?
Well only if they are foreigners. "'Merican" companies are exempt" !
Right!
Dennis
Was there ever a recall on the Ford self-ejecting spark plugs?
 

ReGULT51

Member
What kind of work do you think will done on the vans? The information so far seems to be some cash approx. $3k and recall work to be done to the emission system. One website said that would include software, NOx sensor and new copper catalyst. Also, that 85% of the vans must be repaired within three years. I'm in California, so I'm assuming the recall will be tied to vehicle registration. I also read that the vehicles will be checked annually at the dealer for 5 years, to verify that the emissions system is functioning properly.

Since the emission system seems complicated already as is, going in after the fact and making adjustments seems like opening a Pandora's Box. However, perhaps I'm overthinking it. I've read positive experiences post-scandal regarding VW TDIs. What's your take? Make a future with the NCV3 or the beginning of an exit strategy?
 

Bobnoxious

GONE FISHING
What kind of work do you think will done on the vans? The information so far seems to be some cash approx. $3k and recall work to be done to the emission system. One website said that would include software, NOx sensor and new copper catalyst. Also, that 85% of the vans must be repaired within three years. I'm in California, so I'm assuming the recall will be tied to vehicle registration. I also read that the vehicles will be checked annually at the dealer for 5 years, to verify that the emissions system is functioning properly.

Since the emission system seems complicated already as is, going in after the fact and making adjustments seems like opening a Pandora's Box. However, perhaps I'm overthinking it. I've read positive experiences post-scandal regarding VW TDIs. What's your take? Make a future with the NCV3 or the beginning of an exit strategy?
Where did you hear about the money?

Pandora's box👍👍

Dealerships tend to be lemon factories, the result of less than not always knowledgeable, competent and experienced technicians who may not always pay attention to details.

I'll wait to the last possible moment to ensure benefit of the latest firmware updates, training and experience for service technicians. Let them practice on other vehicles and maybe they'll do mine better.
 
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