New Owner 2006 Free Spirit Extra wires at the chassis battery

P1710758.JPGP1710760.JPGJust purchased 2006 Leisure Travel Van Free Spirit 210B Sofa, 2007 conversion on Freightliner. VIN# WDYPD744965903854. Came with wrong and smaller chassis battery. There were two wires, near the battery, that were not hooked to the battery. I have installed the correct size battery. Where do I attach the two extra wires? Have 2 new Coach Batteries. Coach Batteries charge on shore power but do not charge from the engine when I drive. There may be other things that do not work but I have not found yet. I am so happy I found this site. Hope to drive from Key West, FL to Vermont next week.
 

Mike DZ

2016 View 24V (2015 3500)
Looking at the array of fuses and the size of the cables, this aux battery is feeding some things with large loads (125 amp fuse).

Someone disconnected the cables to troubleshoot or because the load was popping a large fuse. If the cables belong on this fuse block, you will need another large fuse (don't know the size). You will need to finish what the other guy started and fix the underlying problem or you will continue to pop fuses/risk an electric fire if you connect the cables without fixing the underlying problem.

Are there any manuals with the vehicle? The manuals may picture the fuse block and loads.

Suggest you determine if anything other than charging is not working first. With two cables, the implication is two functions. Then, as Eric suggests, follow the wires as far as you can / use a multimeter to check for connectivity/short to ground. You may find a non-functional relay or other component along the line.
 
Looking at the array of fuses and the size of the cables, this aux battery is feeding some things with large loads (125 amp fuse).

Someone disconnected the cables to troubleshoot or because the load was popping a large fuse. If the cables belong on this fuse block, you will need another large fuse (don't know the size). You will need to finish what the other guy started and fix the underlying problem or you will continue to pop fuses/risk an electric fire if you connect the cables without fixing the underlying problem.

Are there any manuals with the vehicle? The manuals may picture the fuse block and loads.

Suggest you determine if anything other than charging is not working first. With two cables, the implication is two functions. Then, as Eric suggests, follow the wires as far as you can / use a multimeter to check for connectivity/short to ground. You may find a non-functional relay or other component along the line.
The larger wire seems to go to the alternator. Will trace the smaller wire.
The only manual I have is missing the cover page but was printed August 2006 and appears to be the "Motorhome Manual" I do not have a "Chassis Manual" No pictures of the battery fuse block.
 

marklg

Well-known member
Thank you. Will try to trace when things dry out. Any hints on how to trace when wires go into bundles
Search for "tone and probe kit". Those have you clip a device to the wire that puts a signal on the wire and you have a probe that picks up the signal and makes noise when it is near the wire. The closer you are, the louder. You can trace wires without touching them. It is not perfect. If another wire is connected, it will make noise too, but I've used it to find wires behind walls.

Regards,

Mark
 

DRTDEVL

Active member
Check by the house batteries for the other end of that large loose cable. If you aren't charging the house, it is entirely possible that there is a charge controller somewhere that this line ties into, and then activates when the alternator is charging (or when an override is triggered for emergency starting).
 

Mike DZ

2016 View 24V (2015 3500)
Relooking at your pics, there appears to be white "witness" marker on almost all of the lugs. I can't see if the witness marker is cracked on any but the two lugs where it is missing. If the witness marker is unbroken on all the rest, the two without the marker are the prime candidates for reconnection. (But still need to fix the underlying)

I believe this fuse block is not Sprinter standard issue, but part of the RV build (I am not a T1N expert). Does LTV have an old manual section on their website, like Winnebago? Or perhaps LTV could provide you with advice / documentation on the correct configuration.
 

BrennWagon

He’s just this guy, you know?
Relooking at your pics, there appears to be white "witness" marker on almost all of the lugs. I can't see if the witness marker is cracked on any but the two lugs where it is missing. If the witness marker is unbroken on all the rest, the two without the marker are the prime candidates for reconnection. (But still need to fix the underlying)

I believe this fuse block is not Sprinter standard issue, but part of the RV build (I am not a T1N expert). Does LTV have an old manual section on their website, like Winnebago? Or perhaps LTV could provide you with advice / documentation on the correct configuration.
That high amperage fuse box is factory. An appropriate fuse could be added in the empty slot and the dangling wires attached to the lug underneath, after you’ve traced them and made sure that the circuits will be safe. I’d think that one of them would lead to drivers seat base where you should find a high current relay to isolate the house battery from the primary.
 
That high amperage fuse box is factory. An appropriate fuse could be added in the empty slot and the dangling wires attached to the lug underneath, after you’ve traced them and made sure that the circuits will be safe. I’d think that one of them would lead to drivers seat base where you should find a high current relay to isolate the house battery from the primary.
P1710763.JPGP1710767.JPGP1710768.JPGThanks, I traced smaller black wire shown in left photo through firewall .above left finger. Black wire turns outward under dash, goes up between the driver dash and door frame and continues up by driver door post.

New info on Larger red wire in original photo. I put voltmeter on it and ground to the engine when the engine is running. Volts read 11 volts, same reading as house batteries. Chassis battery was 13 volts. Volt meter reads 0 when engine is not running. Seems that it must be connected to the house batteries somehow. Any advice???
How do I determine fuse size?
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
What the service document says:

011MIDIfusesOffBattery.jpg

2006 service manual: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf
Lots of information: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/
The above scanned page came from http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/T1N_service_scans/

I agree that the red wire is probably intended to feed your House battery from the alternator
With luck there's an "isolation relay" somewhere (possibly under the driver's or passenger front seat).
If it were mine, i'd put it in the empty fuse position, with a 100 or 125 amp fuse.

Enter your VIN at https://www.datamb.com/ or https://www.mbdecoder.com/ to fetch a free copy of your "datacard"
That's the stuff MB built into *your* Sprinter ... it will include info like alternator capacity (if it's bigger than the standard 90 amp unit).

--dick
 
Wow. What a wonderful group of people out there. Thank you, I don't feel so all alone. I'll dive into the references.
Thank you the data card is great. Going back for more references as soon as I can.
 
What the service document says:

View attachment 153484

2006 service manual: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf
Lots of information: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/
The above scanned page came from http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/T1N_service_scans/

I agree that the red wire is probably intended to feed your House battery from the alternator
With luck there's an "isolation relay" somewhere (possibly under the driver's or passenger front seat).
If it were mine, i'd put it in the empty fuse position, with a 100 or 125 amp fuse.

Enter your VIN at https://www.datamb.com/ or https://www.mbdecoder.com/ to fetch a free copy of your "datacard"
That's the stuff MB built into *your* Sprinter ... it will include info like alternator capacity (if it's bigger than the standard 90 amp unit).

--dick
I printed my "data card" for my VIn # WDYPD744965903845.
Included in mine are the following:
580 AIR CONDITIONER,
E2B ADDITIONAL BATTERY FOR RETROFITTED CONSUMER,
E36 CUT OFF RELAY FOR ADDITIONAL BATTERY,
M39 14V/150 A ALTERNATOR

Do you think because I have 580 AIR CONDITIONER, the red wire goes in the slot 4 like just like Table 1 above with an 80 amp fuse. if so, I do not understand why the red reads coach battery voltage only when engine is running. Note E36. does CUT OFF RELAY FOR ADDITIONAL BATTERY and "isolation relay" mean the same thing? Here is picture of under driver seat.
P1710762.JPG
Another fact, The air conditioner has been replace with a Brand that is different from the original. I hesitate to just try the 80 amp fuse without knowing the possible cause of the original failure. Looks like I do have the larger alternator. I value your thoughts. Thank you.
 

BrennWagon

He’s just this guy, you know?
I printed my "data card" for my VIn # WDYPD744965903845.
Included in mine are the following:
580 AIR CONDITIONER,
E2B ADDITIONAL BATTERY FOR RETROFITTED CONSUMER,
E36 CUT OFF RELAY FOR ADDITIONAL BATTERY,
M39 14V/150 A ALTERNATOR

Do you think because I have 580 AIR CONDITIONER, the red wire goes in the slot 4 like just like Table 1 above with an 80 amp fuse. if so, I do not understand why the red reads coach battery voltage only when engine is running. Note E36. does CUT OFF RELAY FOR ADDITIONAL BATTERY and "isolation relay" mean the same thing? Here is picture of under driver seat.
View attachment 153602
Another fact, The air conditioner has been replace with a Brand that is different from the original. I hesitate to just try the 80 amp fuse without knowing the possible cause of the original failure. Looks like I do have the larger alternator. I value your thoughts. Thank you.
Yes, cutoff relay and isolation relay are synonymous. The isolation relay is under the drivers seat itself. The bottom cushion can be removed by either pulling a little lever or removing two sheet metal screws on the underside and sliding the cushion forward for access.
if the 580 build code is for rooftop AC, that should only receive power with the engine running and your voltage readings would be correct. If the roof unit has been replaced with an aftermarket one capable of running off of shore power, it would explain why these wires were disconnected.
If this is the case, connecting a high power pure sine wave inverter would allow you to run the roof ac while the engine is running if desired.
 

tinman

Active member
I just check d my 2006 Free Spirit on a 2005 Chassis. Position 4 on the fuse block is empty like yours, and the two cables are both connected directly to the positive battery terminal. I don't have factory rear air, just the upfitter rooftop 110 volt air.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
I printed my "data card" for my VIn # WDYPD744965903845.
Included in mine are the following:
580 AIR CONDITIONER,
E2B ADDITIONAL BATTERY FOR RETROFITTED CONSUMER,
E36 CUT OFF RELAY FOR ADDITIONAL BATTERY,
M39 14V/150 A ALTERNATOR

Do you think because I have 580 AIR CONDITIONER, the red wire goes in the slot 4 like just like Table 1 above with an 80 amp fuse.
The "580 Air Conditioner" refers to the (almost standard) FRONT air conditioner, not the one on the roof.
So: No, they did not use Fuse 4 to power that particular AC.
(i don't have a roof-top AC, but i do have a 580 on my datacard, and i'm the bought-new owner)

The "cut off relay" is what i called an "isolation" relay (as does MB at times).
It is not one of the items on the side panel (those two relays are the Yellow in-tank Fuel Pump Relay and the (gray) Starter Relay)
MB put the "additional battery" under the front passenger seat, and i forget if they tucked the relay in there, too, or if it was under the driver's seat ... it will have 4 terminal connections, two with BIG WIRES and two small ones (one of which will be brown).

if so, I do not understand why the red reads coach battery voltage only when engine is running. Note E36. does CUT OFF RELAY FOR ADDITIONAL BATTERY and "isolation relay" mean the same thing?
Yes, as i wrote above E36 and Isolation are the same thing. The fact you're seeing House voltage show up on the fat wire says that the relay is operating properly. If you put that on Fuse 4, you'd be charging your house battery when the engine was running. You'll note that the House voltage (probably) does not appear when the key is merely turned on ... that shows that the E36 is waiting for the alternator to be supplying power (i.e. the "D+" signal is being asserted).

Here is picture of under driver seat.
View attachment 153602
That's not "under" the seat ... that's on the side of the seat pedestal.
I really mean *under* (i.e. pull the cushion and remove the cardboard that's covering the top of the pedestal.
The cushion may have a release lever tucked (almost invisibly) into the front edge of the cushion ... push it sideways and the cushion becomes very easy to remove.

SeatLatch3.jpg
Another fact, The air conditioner has been replace with a Brand that is different from the original. I hesitate to just try the 80 amp fuse without knowing the possible cause of the original failure. Looks like I do have the larger alternator. I value your thoughts. Thank you.
Do you mean that you *do* have a roof-top air conditioner?

Here is the 2006 service manual ... the air conditioner (both front and roof-top) are covered in its wiring diagrams (section 8W) http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf

Whatever a 3rd party may have done to your Sprinter, i cannot guess.
Without looking it up, i think MB may actually wire their isolation relay and battery-to-battery connection *without a fuse* ... which is not something i'd recommend.

--dick
 
Do you mean that you *do* have a roof-top air conditioner?
Yes I do have a roof top air conditioner. The original Carrier Recreational Vehicle AC is an Air V low profile. I was told wrong it has not been replaced.
As I understand things, the chassis described in my "data card" was shipped over to Leisure Travel Vans Inc. and they built a motor home on the chassis. I believe it was put together in Morden ,Manitoba, Canada. Mine looks like this. Complete description is Leisure travel Van, Free Spirit 210 B. It's also described as a 2006 Sprinter 2500 with 2007 Conversion, sold as a 2007 motor Home.
P1710785.JPG
It has 2 coach batteries. they are accessed by the two back doors and are recessed in the floor in two separate plastic or fiberglass wells. I do not believe I have a battery under the front seat. I'll check today. Thank you so much. this is very complicated for me. You are an excellent communicator.
 

tinman

Active member
My Leisure Travel van has one coach battery under the copilot seat, and a second under the aft cabin floor, driver's side. The Carrier rooftop air is a 110 volt unit, has nothing to do with your chassis 12 volt system. Access to the house battery under the copilot seat is a bit difficult because that seat probably has a swivel mount installed by the upfitter, and you need to remove six torx head bolts to lift off the whole assembly. I'm going from visual memory here, because I've never had to mess with the relay, but I don't believe it's under the copilot seat. Maybe the driver's seat? A little easier to look at that one, as there's no swivel.
 

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