Overweight / Suspension

flyag1

Active member
We recently had our new van (2019; 170ext; 2500 4WD; 9,050 GVWR) converted, and I just had it weighed at about 9,500 (full water, full gas, full passengers, partial gear). The plan was to finish out the rest of the conversion with a roof rack, side ladder, and awning, but my calculations say the extra weight (plus some additional cargo) could put us up to about 10,200 (13% over GVWR). It does sag a bit in the back, and can be sluggish uphills, but it doesn't seem like anything that's too problematic.

The (reputable) outfitter company I'm using to do all the conversion work is telling me that it's not uncommon for 170ext's to exceed their GVWR limit, and that there shouldn't be any unusual wear & tear on brakes, engine, etc. since the drivetrain of this van is the same that is used for other models that are capable of about 12,000 GVWR. He said the main issue will be balance / sag and comfort of the ride, which can all be addressed with an after-market suspension package (Van Compass + Fox shocks).

I was originally going to hold out for the 3500XD model with the higher payload, but my outfitter assured me the 2500 would handle our build no problem.

Is he just feeding me nonsense to cover himself, or will the suspension really resolve any overweight issues? Should I avoid adding any additional weight? And should I have a bigger argument with my outfitter?
I would be asking for a total refund: there is simply no reason to be anywhere near gross weight much less over weight. Man I built my van so light I'm complaining about the harsh ride. It's a 170 4x4 and I just replaced my springs on the rear to a much more compliant set from a passenger van. I have a set of the largest AGM batteries I could afford and 40 gallons of water. I also have 3 solar panels mounted to a full length roof rack. Not to mention we have a King sized 10" memory foam mattress in the very rear of the van.

Take the van out to the interstate with cold tires and watch the air-pressure climb as you drive. Be sure they are at recommended PSI before you start. With such a heavy build I would not be surprised to see 15 PSI increase on the rear and hardly any increase in the front. You got to remove something and if it were me, I would remove everything.
 

Davydd

Well-known member
That "reputable" up fitter could not be a certified Mercedes Benz Sprinter master up fitter if he builds like that. I don't know what to say. When the the NCV3 model first came out most every manufacturer built on the 2500 chassis the first year because they thought it naturally to build on a 2500 the same way they built on the 2500 N1T. They quickly reversed course. Many manufacturers just quick building Class Bs. Airstream and I think others just quit building for a full model year and geared back up with 3500s. There is a reason why all manufacturers build 170" wheel base Sprinters regular body and extended bodies on a 3500 chassis. It is difficult to build on a 144 WB Sprinter with a 2500 chassis because MB says you have to build it out less than 7,400 lbs.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
COG is all outta wack and may cause ESP to under-overreact??? Who knows?



 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tiny Travels

2017 170"ext, 4x4, 2500
I'd be worried the most about the brakes. I've driven pick-up trucks with too much weight. The suspension handled it fine, cushier than empty even. And the engine and transmission weren't struggling on hills.
But the first time I had a trailer push me through a red light on a steep decline, I realized the signifcant impact all that weight has on the brakes.

That's a feeling I never want to replicate. Laying on the horn, flashing my flights, white knuckling that steering wheel and damn near filling my pants.
As my grandfather would say, "You can have my share of that."

Just because you can move it, doesn't mean you can stop it. And I'd argue that the latter is much more important.
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
A few comments. The drivetrain up to the rear axle is the same between the 2500 and 3500 vans. The main issue is safety. the 2500 rear brakes are much lower capacity, the rear sway bar is lower rate, and the tire load limit could be exceeded with stock tires.

2500 EXTs can easily overload the rear axle when the weight is not distributed properly. This isn't typically catastrophic, but does impact axle life. The fact that your outfitter either doesn't know or care could be a bit of a problem. Though if you were directing the fit-out, its somewhat your responsibility.

Photos can be decieving, but looking at your photo, your van is dangerously overloaded on the ext section. I bet you only have <2500lbs on the front axle. Given that axle provides 70% of the braking, and is responsible for turning, the vehicle is probably unsafe to drive as loaded in the photo. As mentioned I bet you have nearly 7,500lb on that rear axle.

I suggest finding a scale. I wouldn't be surprised if you are nearly 10,500lb. If you have too little weight on the front axle, no amount of springs and shocks will make the vehicle safe.
 
Last edited:

borabora

Well-known member
Reading this thread, I feel for the OP -- who hasn't replied since his/her starting post. No doubt the upfitter has been paid and getting things fixed now will be expensive for someone. The van looks like it wants to pop a wheelie. Looks so bad that that I'd be worried about getting pulled over amongst other things.
Is this a highly unusual situation or is it common for for upfitters to allow owners to spec themselves into this type of situation? I figure the owner stated what s/he wanted in the van and the upfitter complied without regard to weight and distribution.
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Its still fairly common for Class C RVs to be a few hundred lbs under GVWR sitting new on the dealers lot. So while they technically are not overweight, once any reasonable amount of gear or passengers are added the vehicle is.

There are also plenty of outfitters who take GVWR as a suggestion. Though the upfitters handbook is pretty clear.

The OP hasn't logged in since yesterday, so they may just be busy.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
I dunno, but NASA engineers get big a stiffy everytime someone tenders a weight saving idea.
 

flyag1

Active member
I also feel sorry for the OP, he/she got taken by another of those who don't give a damn or just don't know.
Shame for sure, lots of $$$$ waisted.
 

Brad75

2013 NCV3
I also feel sorry for the OP, he/she got taken by another of those who don't give a damn or just don't know.
Shame for sure, lots of $$$$ waisted.
let’s just hope a RIP kit and some weight shedding straighten things out for the guy. I would have lost my shit the minute I saw the van sagging like that. I have the same size Van in 2wd and have had it overloaded many times and never once sagged that bad. OP needs to post some pictures of the interior so we can see what’s going on. From the one picture it looks like there’s a lot of glass so not much wall space? There better be a hot tub back there!
 
Thanks everyone for the comments. (I only saw response #1 via auto-subscribe email and didn't realize there were so many others here on the forum.)

I saw someone ask for some photos of the interior. Here's a pretty good shot of the layout. 4 captains chairs. Convertible sofa bed in the back, plus a rack support system for an upper bed platform (not pictured here). 2 overhead cabinets in the middle. A kitchenette with sink/stove/fridge. 35G water tank. 2 100Ah lithium batteries. 120W solar kit on the roof.

We have 4 kids, so needed to have enough seating / sleeping for 6.

I'm also sharing another photo on a more level road where the sag is not as severe (though not fully loaded, and only 1 bike on the hitch). The previous photo was in a slightly sloped parking lot.

Like I alluded to earlier, we had a new 3500XD reserved from a dealer but it kept getting delayed so my upfitter alerted me that a local dealer had a 2500 come in. When we asked him multiple times if this would be a weight issue (with his full knowledge of our planned buildout) he did some calculations and said it would not be a problem. We can calculate the weights of our cargo and all that, but thought we could rely on his estimate of the buildout (insulation, cabinetry, furniture, systems) that we have no experience with.

My upfitter is a Mercedes certified master upfitter, and I see them doing a lot of big builds for large families (seemingly a lot of 2500's (not duallies), though I'm not sure if they are 170's or 170EXT's).

I did get it weighed at a CAT station previously which is where I cited the ~9,500 GVWR (3,720 up front, 5,740 in the back).

Tires are load range E.

What a lousy situation.
 

Attachments

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
Looking at your photos PLEASE do not tell me you carry passengers on the side facing bench seats with only lap belts?

This configuration is EXTREMELY dangerous and can cause serious injury to passengers even in a very minor accident.

To stress my point, side facing passenger seats have been prohibited for new vehicles in Europe for well over ten years now.

The only safe way to travel is in forward or rearward facing seats with lap and diagonal, 3 point, belted seats.

Keith.
 
Looking at your photos PLEASE do not tell me you carry passengers on the side facing bench seats with only lap belts?

This configuration is EXTREMELY dangerous and can cause serious injury to passengers even in a very minor accident.

To stress my point, side facing passenger seats have been prohibited for new vehicles in Europe for well over ten years now.

The only safe way to travel is in forward or rearward facing seats with lap and diagonal, 3 point, belted seats.

Keith.
No. We only sit in the 6 captains chairs. We have the sofa bed almost exclusively in bed position.
 

bored

Well-known member
The first pic looks a lot more overloaded then the last. I am assuming 5 passengers sitting in the rear when the first pic was taken?
 

flyag1

Active member
I would not even consider discussing the safety aspect of your build, to each his own. The weight or over weight is also on you and the builder. I fly airplanes and can tell you side facing seats my save your life or cost you. Overloaded airplanes handle different to lite one... so thats my take on that.

I will say the CG center of gravity is a whole different issue. That will get you in major trouble... not once in a while but every-time!

From the photo of the interior I suspect the bed is built from steel and heavy plywood? So that can be fixed. Also where dd they locate the batteries and the water tank? I hope it's not under the bed? If I'm right and the ass is the heavy end, then you have a good chance of getting this all sorted out.
 

Kanga

Member
A plumber friend of mine had a Chevy Express van and was involved in a fatal collision.
He T-Boned a vehicle that went straight through a red light and the driver of that vehicle was killed.
His vehicle was impounded by the police. He was not allowed to remove anything, even his keys,
from the vehicle until it was weighed. Fortunately it was not overweight, otherwise he likely would have been facing manslaughter charges.
Take this matter seriously.
 

sprint2freedom

2008 NCV3 170ext
I'm puzzled by the combination of the obviously sagging rear end and the relatively empty interior. The kitchenette, fridge, additional seating and overheads are all well in front of the rear axle. What's under those benches.. can you open them up and take a few photos?

Was the van brand new or could it possibly have been used to haul extra-heavy materials (moving a couple pallets of cinderblocks for the upfitter's friend?) at some point, deforming the leaf springs?
 

gltrimble

2017 170 4x4
A plumber friend of mine had a Chevy Express van and was involved in a fatal collision.
He T-Boned a vehicle that went straight through a red light and the driver of that vehicle was killed.
His vehicle was impounded by the police. He was not allowed to remove anything, even his keys,
from the vehicle until it was weighed. Fortunately it was not overweight, otherwise he likely would have been facing manslaughter charges.
Take this matter seriously.
Manslaughter? Pretty big assumption given the circumstances.
 

Top Bottom