2017 Winnebago ERA 70X Suspension Upgrade

[JackinVT]

Hello,

So I did all the research and finally settled on the Heavy Duty Sumos front & rear, Hellwig Sway bar (1.5"), and tuned Fox 2.0 shocks. So now I'm sitting here bored waiting for the parts and relieved I wasn't sure what order to do the install. So on the rear does it make any difference which one I install first, second, last?

Thanks
Jack

 

[Mike DZ]

I have the standard sumos all around, hellwig and 2.5 Fox.
Performance-wise, I don't think it will make any difference.

However, pulling the MB sway bar first, remove the shocks, install the rear sumos, then install the shocks and then finally install the sway bar would make a little more elbow room during install. Front Sumos could be before or after. That is, if you are planning on doing them all in the same operation.

If you wanted to collect data on with mod made what difference, then that would drive your order.

 

[Mike DZ]

Re-read the OP - when you said Sumo HD, for the rears you mean the 1500 lb version and not the "Maxim" which is a bolt-up device not intended for vehicles with the axle block, correct? My advice was based on the original Sumos which replace the bumpstop, no bolting.

Other unsolicited advice - I drive my vehicle up on doubled 2x8s, one set for each tire. The resulting 3 inch lift provides enough room for me (@200 lbs) to work comfortably. I have installed my sumos twice for data collection purposes. The original bumpstops will come out easy if you put a long screwdriver in the middle of the stop and rotate the stop. Need to pick the right end of the sumo to put in the bracket first. I use the same long screwdriver as a pry bar to push the sumo against the inserted tab to compress the sumo laterally which provides enough room to get the other tab in. To get the sumo over the axle block I need some light jacking at the jack point or forward rear leaf spring perch to raise the body. I also needed light jacking for the front sumos. Finally, you can use a rachet strap to hold the Fox shocks against the gas pressure, I learned that the second time I installed Fox shocks.

 

[Winterbagoal]

There are more than a few Sumo Spring install videos out there, if you search for them. All are pretty good, I believe, having viewed several.

 

[Philip53]

Put all on except the Hellwig & try out vehicle. Then install Hellwig HD sway bar. You'll have more info to report here as to the results.

 

[ArtistWithAView]

I would agree with Philip53. I have a View, the Hellwig made the ride worse. Took it off.

 

[JackinVT]

Thanks for all the information! Yes the 1500 lb Sumos for the rear. I was planning to install all at once so I was interested in the best order of disassembly/assembly. I am going to be really pressed for time so doubt I will first install without swaybar. We'll see, all depends on when parts finally arrive. In the mean time I am building a set of ramps out of 2x4s just like on this YouTube video.

Like the gentleman in the video I have a lot of scrap 2x4 leftovers.

Again, thanks for the help!
Jack

 

[Mike DZ]

the Hellwig made the ride worse.

No snark intended and apologies to the OP, in what fashion did the Hellwig make the ride worse?

As has been said many times on these forums, ride quality is subjective. If you could provide a little more description of "worse" it would help me understand your comment.

Thanks

 

[JackinVT]

OK, much to my surprise the Swaybar and front Sumos arrived today. Unfortunately it appears I screwed-up and ordered the 500 lb Sumos for the front rather than the 900 lb. I was on the fence as to which ones I should order in the first place. So anyone (everyone) have an opinion as to which ones should work best (Front GAWR is 4410 lbs).

 

[Cheyenne]

Like the gentleman in the video I have a lot of scrap 2x4 leftovers.

Again, thanks for the help!
Jack

Jack,

IMO the design in the video has a fundamental weakness in the second layer up. He has a 2x4 at either end but open space between! Look carefully at the gap when the RV is fully up and you can see the timber in the third layer bowing downwards!

May I suggest you fill in these gaps to prevent premature failure.

Keith.

 

[Philip53]

Hey Mike, you didn't direct your question at me, but I hope you and the OP don't mind if I chime in on my sway bar experience.

I replaced a stock FRONT swaybar on a previous motorhome, and it made the whole front suspension work as one. Locked up the suspension components so both sides operated together. It was so 'heavy duty', it did not 'twist' as it probably should have, which would have allowed at least some independent action by each spring pack/shock. It was a big negative influence on the suspension and handling. Just my experience here, but many here have read the detailed and expansive experiences of 'Calbiker' with his suspension tests with a View. He came to the same conclusion as 'Artistwithaview'.

But of course, as you said, ride quality is quite subjective, especially if you have invested lots of time and money in the installation of various components. If the OP tried the other components first, then added the sway bar, he would have a much better idea of what he would want to ride on for the rest of his ownership of the RV. He may be very surprised. Hope he is able to, and will post back the results.

Thanks

 

[JackinVT]

Jack,

IMO the design in the video has a fundamental weakness in the second layer up. He has a 2x4 at either end but open space between! Look carefully at the gap when the RV is fully up and you can see the timber in the third layer bowing downwards!

May I suggest you fill in these gaps to prevent premature failure.

Keith.

You are correct, I noticed that as well. Definitely another couple 2x4s in the middle. Thanks!

 

[JackinVT]

OK, much to my surprise the Swaybar and front Sumos arrived today. Unfortunately it appears I screwed-up and ordered the 500 lb Sumos for the front rather than the 1000 lb. I was on the fence as to which ones I should order in the first place. So anyone (everyone) have an opinion as to which ones should work best (Front GAWR is 4410 lbs).
[/QUOTE

No one, really?

 

[Mike DZ]

Hey Mike, you didn't direct your question at me, but I hope you and the OP don't mind if I chime in on my sway bar experience.

I replaced a stock FRONT swaybar on a previous motorhome, and it made the whole front suspension work as one. Locked up the suspension components so both sides operated together. It was so 'heavy duty', it did not 'twist' as it probably should have, which would have allowed at least some independent action by each spring pack/shock. It was a big negative influence on the suspension and handling. Just my experience here, but many here have read the detailed and expansive experiences of 'Calbiker' with his suspension tests with a View. He came to the same conclusion as 'Artistwithaview'.

But of course, as you said, ride quality is quite subjective, especially if you have invested lots of time and money in the installation of various components. If the OP tried the other components first, then added the sway bar, he would have a much better idea of what he would want to ride on for the rest of his ownership of the RV. He may be very surprised. Hope he is able to, and will post back the results.

Thanks

Thanks for your reply. I agree that working a sequence of modifications one at a time, using at least a quasi-scientific method is the best way to get a suspension that is optimized to each driver's preference.

I have read Calbiker's posts on his rocking tests and results and appreciate the outstanding work he has done with Agile getting us the Fox 2.0 tuning. However, his objectives are not likely the same as mine, given the differences in vehicles, driving locations and probably lots of other factors.

I think that Calbiker runs on unimproved roads (gravel/ dirt) on a regular basis where my usage is 90+% freeway and two lane highway at 65 mph or posted speeds if lower, towing a small car.

As you might have detected in my earlier post, I have swapped components in and out (and then back in) for testing purposes (ABA testing). This has resulted in a suspension setup that works for me.

 

[Mike DZ]

OK, much to my surprise the Swaybar and front Sumos arrived today. Unfortunately it appears I screwed-up and ordered the 500 lb Sumos for the front rather than the 900 lb. I was on the fence as to which ones I should order in the first place. So anyone (everyone) have an opinion as to which ones should work best (Front GAWR is 4410 lbs).

As mentioned in my earlier post, I have the standard (lighter weight) sumos all around. When I had installed the rear sumos and not yet installed the fronts, I had a hinging effect when going over large whoops at speed.. You might get a similar, but much lesser effect, with stronger Sumos in the rear and lighter in the front. Up to you if this possibility would bother you.

 

[Widebody]

I don't want to take away from the OP but on my 2020 View with the new 2019 3500 chassis, I installed the heavy duty yellow sumo springs in the rear only. It made some improvement. My biggest complaint is highway driving and the wind blowing and trucks passing. The View gets pushed around quite a bit. With the rear yellow sumos, it helped very little. So I ended up getting the fox 2.5 shocks installed in the rear, and this actually made it worse. the wind and trucks passing are more noticable with this combination. The 2019 chassis is supposed to have a larger factory sway bar off the batt so I never entertained getting them replaced with the hellwig. Reading some of calbaker posts in the past, did I read that the sumos and sumo combination is not a good match? Seems there are conflicting reports. I'm thinking adding front sumos but having a hard time determining why that would help or not.

 

[Wine Country]

Like many I had a View G and it drove poor. I put on Sumo front and rear. Then Hellwig sway bar, Fox shocks in the rear, the original Fox shocks. I weighed it and run 52 front and 57 rear. It drove well. I last changed the rear black to yellow Sumo and it drives very well. I have 35 k on the tires and they look good. My G is heavy.

 

[Widebody]

What color sumos do you have in the front?

 

[Wine Country]

I have black Sumo front. IMHO the front is not a problem. I have stock shocks and going to Koni Red like Calbiker is a thought,
Alinement, then weigh it with your gear and 1/3 water, use The Michelin guide for tire pressure, Heavy Fox shocks first, the sway bar, and Sumo if you are heavy. Sumo are a springs and don’t stop rocking but do put the rear up on mine to vastly improve tracking. I felt mine was down in the rear causing poor steering, I also over time learn that my View is not a car and I go slow n tight turns and from a gas station to the road as an example. I still rock but not like before. Trucks passing me are no problem. It’s too bad the builders don’t improve Motorhomes for driving.

 

[Mike DZ]

I'm thinking adding front sumos but having a hard time determining why that would help or not.

In my quest to improve highway driving characteristics, I found that the front Sumos made a larger difference in reducing the effect of high wind gusts than rears. When I say high wind gusts, I mean South Dakota type gusts. Please note that my rig has the cabover bunk. This result is in line with wind tunnel research on large body vehicle (bus) wind gust directional behavior.