Can the T1N be made quiet?

[trc.rhubarb]

Am i on a mission doomed to fail, or can my van be made as quiet as a modern passenger vehicle?
I can't stand wearing earplugs everywhere I go and conversations can be challenging.

Before I spend a lot of money trying different methods, I thought I'd find out how well folks have done with this.

My cargo area is fully butyl lined on the floor and the walls have just the factory dried up panels on them.
Above the butyl is diamond plate aluminum which isn't helping, I'm sure.

Wheel wells are exposed. Side panels have some inusulation and then are carpeted. Rear doors are plywood. Passenger is rubber in front and carpet at the bench seat.

The van is loud... Road noise, tire noise, engine noise (not awful but it's there), wind noise and rattles.
I've had a lot of vans but those were for work and this one is a daily driver, so i care a bit more.

I had, exwife has now, an odyssey that is damn near silent. I don't expect that but if i could cut things down to not needing ear plugs, that would be nice.

Thoughts?

 

[koenb]

Don't have a answer for you right now as i'm waiting on stuff to ship. But I'm planning to install mass loaded vinyl in the floor of the forward cabin and on the backsides of my partition panels. I am using the original 3 peice center door style partition but without the center door/panel and instead using an insulating (thermal and acoustic) curtain. My thought was to save money on all the raw material (and weight) and skip soundproofing the whole cargo area and instead focus on the forward cabin.

I did put some of those butyl rubber "soundproofing" tiles on the floor of the cargo area and on the wheel wells. I didnt notice a change.

 

[alexk243]

I found a huge difference in highway noise when the van is empty and loaded. If you are driving around with a open cavernous rear area then it is going to be loud. Not sure if your plan is to build it out, but if you do it will quiet down. Just having a lot of stuff in the van makes mine much more quiet. As far as engine noise I am not sure there is any cure for that beyond firewall insulation or similar.

 

[220629]

I expect my T1N's to be the trucks that they are. My recollection from looking in on sound deadening threads is that your situation can be improved. It comes down to time and money. Fortunately others have shared knowledge so you should get a bit of a head start.

I used the advanced search in the RV's and Conversion Section. These are some threads that came up. If you do a similar search there are many more.

Dynomat vs Thermozite vs Rattletrap XXX

Trying to get a idea what to use under the insulation layer. It will be too hot this summer to travel around in a T1N my AC only functions well under 90 degrees so I may finally get to do some custom projects. Also feel free to mention any other products used and your insulation of choice. Seems...

sprinter-source.com

Need advice for insulation (sound and temperature)

After reading and watching videos, I've decided to go with fiber insulation for my 2004 hi-158. Although it won't be nearly as well insulated as foam (spray or rigid), I don't plan to camp out in any extreme temperatures. I'll rarely spend more than one night in the van, and most times will...

sprinter-source.com

Wall sound deadening and insulation question

We started our Sprinter conversion today on our 2018 170 Stone Gray Crew and ran into the first (of many) questions. When we took off the lower plastic panels we noticed that in addition to some factory sound deadening there was also some foam insulation stuck to the wall. It didn’t cover the...

sprinter-source.com

Anyone lined doors with Dyna Mat/ Boom Mat to reduce noise?

Ive noticed that my doors sound like a big tin can when I close them, and have been wondering if lining them with somethin like Dyna Mat or Boom Mat would make the van quieter. Anyone done this? Brian

sprinter-source.com

Have fun.

vic

 

[trc.rhubarb]

Thanks @Aqua Puttana
What i am really wondering is if anyone was able to make it quiet vs "better". I've read a ton of posts on better, blogs on better, videos on better...
I know it's a bit subjective, but if i'm going to spend potentially thousands and a weekend insulating, I really want it to quiet down a lot.
Yes, it's a truck, i get it. I have loud on my motos and I've driven work trucks for years but I've had a bad head injury for the last almost 4 years and noise is tough on me... hearing and sound processing is tough. At this point, I'm near considering buying a car for regular driving but I'd much rather just have the van and make it more civilized.

If nobody has done that, cool. I may or may not give it a try. But if someone can honestly say it's at least as quiet as a honda civic or a town and country van... well that gives me hope for it.

 

[BrennWagon]

There are lots of sound and thermal insulation options, and covering as much of the sheet metal as is reasonable will quiet things down considerably. Adding a second gasket to the outside edge of the front doors knocks down wind noise. Adding fabric covered panels and a head liner will help too. Upgrading the stereo system can also help eliminate road and engine noise. The tires and tire pressure have an effect as well, and inflating to the pressures posted on the door sill will give a harsher and louder ride than if you check the pressure chart and inflate to the appropriate psi for the load on each axle (I’m running 45psi all around on my relatively light 140).
I used this product to line the footwell, firewall, tool tray, wall and roof panels And had reasonable results
Frost King FV516 Duct Insulation & Tape, White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H26CPFS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_hxnkFb1Y00BHN

I’ve definitely quieted my van down to the point where I can use the phone on speaker and on a dash mount without having to shout, which is definitely something.

 

[sipma02]

Our buildout isn't as quiet at my 2007 Civic. But with each weekend of work, it gets quieter and quieter. It's currently probably 25% louder than my Civc, which I'm pretty stoked about. It was really freaking loud when I first got it, and I hated it. It was (and still is) a huge priority to have a quiet van, where we can have a normal volume level conversation at highway speeds. My goal is to make it as quiet as my Civic, which, while not a luxury car, is a fine benchmark.

Here's what I've done so far:
– Thinsulate in walls
– 1 lb/sqft MLV (mass loaded vinyl) in floors, especially in footwells and in front
– adjusted rear doors to near perfection
– •added gasket/weatherstripping to door jamb on front 2 doors where the air rushes in
– sticky butyl (Noico) dampening
– 3/4" painted MDF on floors
– •3/4" enclosure around wheel wells, layered MLV inside, and a bit of remaining Thinsulate
– plywood walls
– removed dash plastic, 1/2" Thinsulate in every crevice in the dash
– 1/2" Thinsulate in doors
– 16" rims (24.5" diameter to 30" diameter, reduced the RPMs by around 500 at 70mph which really cut down on engine/turbo noise)
– •permanently mounted 8" queen mattress with pillows, blankets, etc
– re-torqued rear shock bolts
– •filled in behind headliner with Thinsulate

Still on the list:
– Thinsulate in footwell of slider door
– finish buildout with seat cushions and remaining cabinets, etc
– possibly reduce pressure in tires for softer ride?
– theater (aka sound dampening) curtain between cab and living quarters

Hopefully that gives you some ideas of where to look. The floor–and especially wheel well covers–probably quieted 50% of the noise, the bed absorbed another 20%, Thinsulate behind headliner 20% and door gasket maybe 10%. I asterisked them. At this point, I'm probably chasing small percentages in road and engine noise now. I consider almost any reduction in noise worth it, because this will be our full-time rig.

 

[glasseye]

Sound insulation is a well-known science. I humbly suggest researching it on the internet. Architects figured this stuff out years ago. So did aircraft manufacturers.

Isolating and blocking the noise-producing element from the interior is key. Mass is your friend. Lead is exceptionally useful at this task, but it's expensive and not very practical. Mass-Loaded-Vinyl is a good compromise. The floor produces nearly all the noise and blocking the road noise on the floor is by far the most effective and easy to implement strategy.

I experimented with Dynamat and found it virtually useless. The marketing sounds good, but it doesn't work well in my experience. MLV is far cheaper and far more effective. You need to cover everywhere, even up the walls. Forget the ceiling. Virtually no noise comes from the ceiling.

I used 3/4" thick rubber mats on the floor. "Horse stall mats". Ludicrously cheap, unbelievably heavy and extraordinarily effective. I covered the entire cargo section floor and Frito now truly sounds like a Merc, even in the rain at highway speeds. By far the loudest sound now comes from the wind on the mirrors and the engine. If you hate the idea of rubber mats on the floor, you can always cover them up with something nicer. I bought some carpet. Blocking engine noise is nearly impossible without removing the engine to attack the firewall.

This link contains info on how I sound insulated my 04.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?search/50799/&q=Frito%27s+Bulkhead&c[title_only]=1&o=relevance

 

[trc.rhubarb]

My head already hits the ceiling, so while the mats may work well, it's a tough decision to cut head space but i've considered the mats on more than one occasion. The T1N is just adequate for me to walk in, which was a decision maker. I'm trying real hard not to buy something newer with more headroom because i don't need it and i've got better things to do with my money than buy a new old van.

It's why i covered the entire floor with butyl under the diamond plate but it's so loud.

I've done a ridiculous amount of research and while it may be a science, it seems to be more based in the world of marketing or unattainable science.
I've deadened some vehicles before but nothing on the scale of noise that this van makes.

It sounds like @sipma02 is on his way towards that low bar of a honda civic and that's all I'm looking for confirmation on.
I don't expect it to sound like an SL or even my old odyssey. But i would like some relief.

I had intended some level of MLV or dynamat type product combined with thinsulate but it sounds like that may not be enough.
No curtains are possible,

Thanks for the link to Frito's build. While i can't do a bulkhead, i will read through it entirely.

 

[cian128]

i did dynamat patches on every panel in the body
thinsulate everywhere
MLV on floors of cab, step wells, and headliner
wooden walls in the rear cabin area etc etc normal buildout stuff

to-do is MLV is doors and replace the sound deadening foam on the HVAC and firewall in the engine bay

its ok... much better than the bare sheet metal body when I got it - but I am slowly giving up on making it quiet. i want to drive someone elses wagon so i get another data point.

I have noticed the van is so sensitive to road surface. fresh tarmac at 70 can be a whisper, but city concrete cut up by tire chains can be uncomfortably loud, have to raise voice to passenger loud. driving 2017 tacoma on same roads doesn't have the same huge difference in volume due to the road

 

[220629]

...

If nobody has done that, cool. I may or may not give it a try. But if someone can honestly say it's at least as quiet as a honda civic or a town and country van... well that gives me hope for it.

Normally I'd move this to the RV Talk section, but there have been comments that the NCV3 is inherently quieter than the T1N so I'll leave it in T1N. When getting comments on results know whether it is based upon T1N changes.

vic

 

[Midwestdrifter]

Once you address the cargo floor, low hanging fruit is the A/B pillars, extra wind seals on the upper front doors, and the firewall. The firewall is best done with the dash removed. Stuffing thinsulate under the step well covers (NOT the bottom side), and up around the jack, etc, helps. Adding firm closed cell foam under the front floor helps as well. Between all these things, I can have a conversation at 70mph in my van. That is with fairly loud AT tires. My biggest complaint was wind whistling from the mirrors and doors. Sealing the mirror trim holes, and adding external weatherstrip along the top/front helped a lot.

One approach is to block any holes to the exterior where noise can travel through the pillars. Stuff with insulation or cap the holes if possible. Then move to transmission. This means firm (but not rigid) closed cell foam, with a vinyl or floor layer above. The front factory floor works fine. In the rear this isn't a good option for a conversion, so a rug on the floor helps.

CLD tiles on the large panels in the doors roof makes some difference, but really most of the noise comes through the floor, which doesn't benefit from these.

Then move on to absorption in the uninsulated cavities. Anywhere you can stuff absorbing material will help. You can glue closed cell foam inside the front doors (careful of the windows), and add some under the passenger seat.

 

[trc.rhubarb]

Normally I'd move this to the RV Talk section, but there have been comments that the NCV3 is inherently quieter than the T1N so I'll leave it in T1N. When getting comments on results know whether it is based upon T1N changes.

vic

Thanks and there will be no buildout. This is just a cargo van with a back seat.

 

[trc.rhubarb]

Thanks everyone, it's not so much that i don't know how or what the options are but will it work within reason (cost & weight)?
Adding 1000lbs of insulation as one poster did doesn't seem to fit the 'within reason' portion for me, Equally, spending $4k on product fails that test as well.


I love the van and all it's quirks... I completely dislike appliance like vehicles, but this noise thing is a challenge to continued ownership to me. Doesn't help that i also dislike 4 wheeled vehicles, but life necessitates ownership for me, for now... so maybe I'm still coming to terms with that as well.

 

[99sport]

Bulkhead and sliding door - especially if you plan to keep it empty. My unscientific assessment is that it makes a 4 or 5X difference in noise level. It even kills the noise from my misadjusted and rattling cargo doors. I rebuilt the sliding door on my Fedex cargo with 1 inch polyiso foam, uhmw guide / track at the bottom, and weatherstripping all around. The primary goal was thermal isolation, but it made a dramatic reduction in noise while driving.

 

[ECU]

I used standard type insulation, Rocwol. Put panels on the inside. Thus a bit of pressure on the outside metal. Stopped a lot on noise.
Glued the top to the ribs where they had come loose. This stopped the drum like noise of the top flapping.

 

[jcmadeintheshade@gmail.com]

Yes.

My 06 2500 is now as quiet as any MB product should be and it was easy. I have only had to deal with the front cab area, lucky me, since this was purchased as a Midwest Auto Design limo build.

This subject keeps resurrecting itself and with good reason with many offering suggestions every time.

1. Lined my entire front cab floor area with adhesive sound barrier. Most of these brands are pretty much the same, but using one without any asphalt is preferable. sniff, sniff This includes going up the firewall as high as possible.

2. Completely line the footwells under the plastic covers and up all sides with the same strong adhesive sound deadening product of your choice. Not only does this noticeably mitigate road noise, it seals off once and for all the footwell metal from any water contact which is a known source of rust.

3. Remove the plastic door panels. Line, in my case, as much of the interior door skin metal from top to bottom, as I could squeeze my hands and the adhesive material into. I also added a layer on the inside of the doors metal that the plastic panels connect to. Two layers have to be better than one, right? The doors now close with a solid thud like a quality product should from the factory. Yes, these are considered work trucks, but they are much more than that to us.

4. Adding that extra rubber molding around the top of the front doors helps with wind noise. So do a pair of the wind deflectors. I used automotive double sided tape on the drivers door frame and put it little too low in the channel for the secondary rubber molding to seal tight at the top of the door edge. I will do better on the passenger side door and then adjust the driver door as needed. I should have looked at the photos posted here before putting the rubber molding on so it would be high enough to seal the visual gap. Easy enough to fix.

5. This last one may not be for everybody, but the difference is additionally sound mitigating. Roll on some truckbedliner product of your choice on the front doors, the engine lid, the roof above the windshield, and the A-pillars. I really gooped it on the A-pillars.

My T1N is quiet on the road. Music can be played at a significantly lower volume. Conversations can be held at a normal volume without having to yell at each other.

Anything helps whatever one chooses. Covering as much of the interior metal surfaces with a sound deadener is easy and works. The adhesive is so strong that it easily bends around and sticks to compound angles. Removing this material would be quite a task, thus rust treating the metal beforehand is the way to go. Thanks to all here.

 

[autostaretx]

We have a friend who "boxed" his rear wheel wells .... and packed the box with fiberglas insulation.
It really made a difference

On ours, we always notice how much quieter it is when the cargo area is packed full of stuff ... not necessarily "heavy" stuff, just a lot of space-filling and complex shapes to break up direct sound transfer

--dick

 

[cian128]

i put MLV under the cab floor and squares of sound deadener - at some point ill pull it up and redo with 100% sound deadener under the cab floor, tire noise is all I hear now coming straight up

i'm not ever going to think it will be like an S class however!

 

[Deleted member 50714]

Not a method for all, but cargo or furniture blankets works for me

Dual purpose, inexpensive and on sale now at nearest local commie Horror Freight. Easy to install, easy on wallet, back and disposable.

Found a few higher quality ones at garage sale the nice man said he got from the studios when they were being thrashed. 1.00 ea, and like dummy, only bought five.

Serve as disposable emergency blankets for warmth if marooned in inclement weather, comfort or cover unfortunate traffic accident victims. Used one to help carry an injured dog.

When they become a bit soiled, they are thrashed or repurposed as dog blankets.

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