2000W Multiplus with AC>?

Brad75

2013 NCV3
i have a 2000 watt Victron Multiplus with 250ah Lifepo4 and im interested in the Dometic Penguin 2 with soft start. i would like to feed everything from a Honda 2200 watt generator. is this doable or do i need to look at smaller AC units or lager generator? The numbers are close but I figured somebody here might have a work around etc. I definitely don’t want to replace the inverter.

My electrical is setup so that 30amp shire power connection is fed through underneath the van (left breaker box) directly to the Multiplus then i have a 15amp circuit coming out to 2 outlets.


 
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Brad75

2013 NCV3
I think I’m going to hardwire the A/C to shore power with a larger generators and bypass my electrical system all together. I’m not upgrading the inverter and so far my system has been bulletproof. I dont want to be on the road dealing with an AC unit causing me problems. AC seem to be nothing but problems. I would like to ditch it altogether but the wife wants something so I’m willing to give it a shot.
 

marklg

Well-known member
I think I’m going to hardwire the A/C to shore power with a larger generators and bypass my electrical system all together. I’m not upgrading the inverter and so far my system has been bulletproof. I dont want to be on the road dealing with an AC unit causing me problems. AC seem to be nothing but problems. I would like to ditch it altogether but the wife wants something so I’m willing to give it a shot.
You won't get much run time if you try to run an AC off an inverter with the battery you have anyway. ACs just take too much energy. People that run the AC successfully from batteries have five figure electrical systems.

Look at this thread post #8 for some numbers:


With your battery you might get a little over an hour runtime and use up everything in the battery if you ran the AC off the inverter.

Regards,

Mark
 

Brad75

2013 NCV3
You won't get much run time if you try to run an AC off an inverter with the battery you have anyway. ACs just take too much energy. People that run the AC successfully from batteries have five figure electrical systems.

Look at this thread post #8 for some numbers:


With your battery you might get a little over an hour runtime and use up everything in the battery if you ran the AC off the inverter.

Regards,

Mark
Yep, I understand the battery limits. I just listed that info so you guys know what I have. My main concern is running the AC off of shore power through the inverter.

The Victron Multiplus kind of confuses me with its complexity. Let’s say I have a 3,000watt Honda generator. Would I be ok running the AC with soft start out in the desert ? Or should I just bypass the inverter altogether an run a dedicated outlet just for the AC straight to the generator?

In the future I might add more lifepo4 to the system so I’d like it if I could use the inverter.
 

Ferrets

Member
The idea behind the multiplus is right sizing the generator to be large enough to run (not necessarily start) the AC. There is little price difference between the 2K and 3K multiplus units - so if you have the room for the larger/heavier 3K, it may be the way to go. With the inverter running, you would start the generator - then turn on the AC. You dial in how many amps it will draw off the generator via a knob on the remote control panel. The multiplus picks up the surge that the generator misses. Another nice feature on the multiplus is its charger - charge/balance your lithium and has a separate output for your start battery.
 
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Shawn182

Active member
The idea behind the multiplus is right sizing the generator to be large enough to run (not necessarily start) the AC. There is little price difference between the 2K and 3K multiplus units - so if you have the room for the larger/heavier 3K, it may be the way to go. With the inverter running, you would start the generator - then turn on the AC. You dial in how many amps it will draw off the generator via a knob on the remote control panel. The multiplus picks up the surge that the generator misses. Another nice feature on the multiplus is its charger - charge/balance your lithium and has a separate output for your start battery.

Agreed that is the proper way to do it (my system is the same) as the batteries and generator supplement each other...but since he already has the 2K inverter I would just bypass it all together since the startup current will continually overlap the inverter on startup.
 

RVBarry

Member
A 9200BTU A/C would use less power, and would cycle less often (removing humidity better).
Airxcel Mach Polar Cub 9.2, plus grille, optionally plus heater coil (no heat pumps of the 9kbtu A/Cs afaict).


Also, if you're on shore power, the transfer relay in the MultiPlus should allow 30A of shore power (3600W), so rewiring shouldn't be needed.
 

RVBarry

Member
The Victron Multiplus kind of confuses me with its complexity. Let’s say I have a 3,000watt Honda generator. Would I be ok running the AC with soft start out in the desert ?
Even without soft-start, if the transfer relay is 30A.
 

Ferrets

Member
Oops - did not see his existing 2K Multiplus on my tablet....
Multis can parallel up with each other. They also parallel in a similar fashion with a genset or AC mains much like paralleling two compatible gensets. The manual indicates the Multi needs a minute or so to synch up its waveform with the genset. The question is how much current can they handle? From what I can tell, the 2K multi has a 50A passthru transfer switch. It itself has a 4k peak output which it would add to the genset output. If the generator is large enough, the multi does not get into the mix - its a passthru transfer - any excess AC mains input would be diverted to charging the batteries.

See: https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva#whitepapers

From https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/White-paper-Achieving-the-impossible-EN.pdf on the Victron Site:

"Sometimes the features of a new product are so unique that the benefits are difficult to understand or simply denied. The Phoenix MultiPlus is
such a product.

The purpose of this paper is to step by step clarify the many features of the Phoenix Multi/MultiPlus.

Think of a situation where electricity from the grid or a generator is not available or limited in power. Think of boats, mobile homes, trucks,
service vans, remote communication systems or off-grid houses. All too often shore power in the marina or on the camping ground is limited. All
too often small gensets are a headache because of premature failure or frequent maintenance.
The Phoenix Multi/MultiPlus solves these problems.

1.1 The bidirectional converter
The M/M+ is built around a bidirectional converter, that operates as an inverter or as a battery charger.
The converter of the M+ does more than a conventional bidirectional converter: it operates in parallel with the grid, with shore power or
with a genset. It can add power to AC supply (with energy from the battery) and it will use surplus power to recharge. In most cases the M+
will also reduce the harmonic distortion of the genset voltage (this can be important for certain sensitive loads such as an induction cooker)
Achieving the impossible-Taking control of shore power with the Phoenix Multi/MultiPlus fromVictron Energy"
 
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Brad75

2013 NCV3
Oops - did not see his existing 2K Multiplus on my tablet....
Multis can parallel up with each other. They also parallel in a similar fashion with a genset or AC mains much like paralleling two compatible gensets. The manual indicates the Multi needs a minute or so to synch up its waveform with the genset. The question is how much current can they handle? From what I can tell, the 2K multi has a 50A passthru transfer switch. It itself has a 4k peak output which it would add to the genset output. If the generator is large enough, the multi does not get into the mix - its a passthru transfer - any excess AC mains input would be diverted to charging the batteries.
so basically, no need to bypass the 2k multi I have, just get a larger generator and like you said, the multi will be out of the mix and the generator will feed the AC through the multi via pass through?
 

RVBarry

Member
so basically, no need to bypass the 2k multi I have, just get a larger generator and like you said, the multi will be out of the mix and the generator will feed the AC through the multi via pass through?
Yes. Or a smaller A/C.
Is your vehicle decently insulated?
 

RVBarry

Member
Rigid foam on the walls and ceilings then paneled over nice and tight. It’s not bad for a van.
Good.
That means a larger A/C would cycle too much, and the 9.2k would be better.
 

Brad75

2013 NCV3
Good.
That means a larger A/C would cycle too much, and the 9.2k would be better.
I’m going to go with the Coleman A/C you linked above. I would like to use a Honda 2,200 watt generator cause of how easy it is to handle but if that’s not enough juice then I’m thinking about a Champion 3400watt dual fuel generator. I like the option of running propane as back up as well as the larger fuel tank.

Thoughts?

 

Kajtek1

2015 long/tall limo RV 2.1l
Propane has less energy and is harder to get than gasoline.
Than propane carburetors are way behind in technology comparing to gasoline carburetors, meaning propane generators usually suck fuel like crazy.
The only situation I would consider propane is as a house power backup, when you might have to keep the fuel for couple of years before using,.
Gasoline in plastic cans seldom will last more than a year, when propane in metal cylinder is good for 100.
 

borabora

Active member
I believe there exist conversion kits for the Honda (I know they exist for some of the small Hondas but there are different Honda models) that allow you to run it on either propane or gasoline. Despite what Kajtek1 says, which I don't dispute, I think that propane is often more convenient and always less smelly. But if you convert it to dual fuel you can decide on your own.
I did an ocean crossing on a small boat with the Honda as the only source for 120 AC and hated dealing with the gasoline.
 

Brad75

2013 NCV3
I believe there exist conversion kits for the Honda (I know they exist for some of the small Hondas but there are different Honda models) that allow you to run it on either propane or gasoline. Despite what Kajtek1 says, which I don't dispute, I think that propane is often more convenient and always less smelly. But if you convert it to dual fuel you can decide on your own.
I did an ocean crossing on a small boat with the Honda as the only source for 120 AC and hated dealing with the gasoline.
I’m willing to sacrifice efficiency for convenience. We might only use the generator a handful of times a year, certainly not enough to justify carrying around spare gasoline. Diesel generator would be ideal but I can’t see spending that kind money.
 

borabora

Active member
There are tons of youtube videos and articles available on the topic. Obviously do your due diligence if you plan on buying a converting that little generator but I think it's a great little unit.
 

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