CRANK NO START

crank no start on a 2003 with 205k changed injectors, cam and fuel filter ( all from million mile sprinter) crank senor (bosch unit) fuel pressure relief valve (bosch) and clear fuel line from filter to lift pump. changed the o ring after the lift pump on the outlet side as well. i used a noid lamp, can see a signal coming from the cam senor when cranking. when running my scan tool autel 808 shows engine rpm but when cranking can only see a blip sometimes. yesterday it started really well after swaping out the filter to lift pump line and i rarely see any bubbles. after i shut it off it was dead again. cranking an no starting. what else should i look out for? i dont suspect a wiring issue as the van runs mint once she starts up and hasn't ever died while running. i cant see any wear on the harness either. i have also tired a 4 psi inline fuel pump before the filter and that hasnt made any difference other than swaping all the fuel lines out/ engine harness im all out of ideas. ps the immobilizer shows no codes and all "yes" under if it sees the key ect.
 
I’m struggling with my 2002 right now. One thing I was looking at that I don’t see you mention here is rail pressure while cranking. Have you checked that? The advice of folks in the last few pages on that thread might help you zero in on the problem.
Oh, and you don’t mention any codes.
mike
 
I’m struggling with my 2002 right now. One thing I was looking at that I don’t see you mention here is rail pressure while cranking. Have you checked that? The advice of folks in the last few pages on that thread might help you zero in on the problem.
Oh, and you don’t mention any codes.
mike
No codes. Have 65 BAR under cranking, sometimes jumps to 270 bar (enough to start). I’m replacing all fuel lines, lift pump and the engine harness (Started to rub through in a few places). I suspect a fuel pressure issue. The van holds 1200 BAR no problem under WOT so I doubt the high pressure pump or a high pressure leak
 
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billintomahawk

Guest
Marz,
If you have bubbles in the clear plastic line from the filter to the LP pump the engine won't start when hot until you fix the leaks in the filter and the supply to it. Many of us 612 owners have been through this problem.

bill in tomahawk
 
Marz,
If you have bubbles in the clear plastic line from the filter to the LP pump the engine won't start when hot until you fix the leaks in the filter and the supply to it. Many of us 612 owners have been through this problem.

bill in tomahawk
Yes that line was replaced. The fuel diverted valve is on the way as well. Fuel filter is new (no leaks from million mile sprinter)
 

BrennWagon

He’s just this guy, you know?
Have you tried running both leads of a jumper cable from the engine block to the battery negative cable to check that the engine to chassis ground wire is allowing enough current? A failing ground strap will give a crank no start. The test is free.

May I ask what prompted the injector replacement, etc?
 
Have you tried running both leads of a jumper cable from the engine block to the battery negative cable to check that the engine to chassis ground wire is allowing enough current? A failing ground strap will give a crank no start. The test is free.

May I ask what prompted the injector replacement, etc?
No I have not tired that yet but I will be replacing that wire as well during this. Wouldn’t that also cause a running issue?

the fuel injector replacement was because it failed the leak off test. Thinking that was caused the crank no start all were replaced
 

BrennWagon

He’s just this guy, you know?
Surprisingly, a failing ground strap can allow the engine to run after startup, as there is a much lighter current draw during operation than at startup. When mine went I shotgunned a battery, GP module, starter relay, and too many hours checking circuits with a multimeter until I realized that I was looking at the wrong end of the system
 
Surprisingly, a failing ground strap can allow the engine to run after startup, as there is a much lighter current draw during operation than at startup. When mine went I shotgunned a battery, GP module, starter relay, and too many hours checking circuits with a multimeter until I realized that I was looking at the wrong end of the system
Wow didn’t even think to think about that! Lol. Well maybe a combo of all of this will help otherwise I’m dead in the water
 
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billintomahawk

Guest
Yes that line was replaced. The fuel diverted valve is on the way as well. Fuel filter is new (no leaks from million mile sprinter)
If you see only an occasional bubble you have a leak problem and it will not start hot.

At least mine would not.

bill
 

hkpierce

'02 140 Hi BlueBlk Pass
I don't think you answered Bill's question. For bubbles in the fuel line, it does not matter what you replaced if the bubbles are still there. Of the countless times I have had this problem, only a handful of times has it been a broken item. Usually it is a problem with a leaking fitting at one of the connectors or an air leak in the numerous other places upstream of the low pressure pump. So,,,, agreeing with Bill, any bubbles, no start.

Also, if you have been trying for a long time and the battery voltage has dropped to the low 11s, the electronics will not work - no start.
 
I don't think you answered Bill's question. For bubbles in the fuel line, it does not matter what you replaced if the bubbles are still there. Of the countless times I have had this problem, only a handful of times has it been a broken item. Usually it is a problem with a leaking fitting at one of the connectors or an air leak in the numerous other places upstream of the low pressure pump. So,,,, agreeing with Bill, any bubbles, no start.

Also, if you have been trying for a long time and the battery voltage has dropped to the low 11s, the electronics will not work - no start.
Sorry I should have been a bit more clear. Yes I did see some bubbles after replacing the filter to lift pump line but after a few mins or running they went away. Then after it wouldn’t start at all and I wasn’t getting enough fuel pressure (65BAR). The battery is most likely still good. I have it on a tender most times as well
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
In order to start you need fuel pressure, crank, and cam signals. You need to verify your getting all three of these while you're starting. With your scanner watch for crank and cam synchronization during cranking. If you're not seeing that then you could have a wiring or sensor issue. In addition if you're not getting sufficient fuel pressure and your cranking speed is at least 180 to 200 RPM you may have an injector that's leaking off excessively. You would not be the first person to buy a remanufacturer injector and have it fail almost immediately. Though MMS should be selling quality parts.
 
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Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
65 bar is waaay too low?
You are looking for upwards of 140 bar before the ecm will trigger the injectors. I suggest a leak-off test of the injectors and the fuel rail relief solenoid... as MWD said, you would not be the first buyer of off-spec “reman” injectors.

-dave
 
65 bar is waaay too low?
You are looking for upwards of 140 bar before the ecm will trigger the injectors. I suggest a leak-off test of the injectors and the fuel rail relief solenoid... as MWD said, you would not be the first buyer of off-spec “reman” injectors.

-dave
It’s runs like it’s new after it starts. It’s just the starting that is an issue. I just finished swapping the wiring harness and lift pump and all the lines. Currently trying to get all the air out of the lines now

In prefer to start you need fuel pressure, crank, and cam signals. You need to verify your getting all three of these while you're starting. With your scanner watch for crank and cam synchronization during cranking. If you're not seeing that then you could have a wiring or sensor issue. In addition if you're not getting sufficient fuel pressure and your cranking speed is at least 180 to 200 RPM you may have an injector that's leaking off excessively. You would not be the first person to buy a remanufacturer injector and have it fail almost immediately. Though MMS should be selling quality parts.
You can’t see cam and crank sync on a 2003. You can’t seem cam signals only rpm (crank).
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
You can’t see cam and crank sync on a 2003. You can’t seem cam signals only rpm (crank).
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Might be worth a good harness inspection around the cam sensor then.

If you are seeing the 5V square wave at the ecm, then you can be fairly certain the sensor is working. Its a Hall effect sensor, so its either working or not typically. The crank sensor is inductive, and can have weak signal.
 
Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. Might be worth a good harness inspection around the cam sensor then.

If you are seeing the 5V square wave at the ecm, then you can be fairly certain the sensor is working. Its a Hall effect sensor, so its either working or not typically. The crank sensor is inductive, and can have weak signal.
Yeah I thought you could see it too but Joel (MMS) couldnt even on his scanner. I actually just replaced the harness and so far the only code I’m comming up with is “fuel temp sensor voltage too high”. I also pretty sure I don’t have it plugged in cause it’s that pain in the ass one under the manifold hah
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Well, the ECM defaults to a value with the sensor unplugged, (I think its a high value?) I am not sure how that would affect starting, but it could be significant.
 
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billintomahawk

Guest
It’s runs like it’s new after it starts. It’s just the starting that is an issue. I just finished swapping the wiring harness and lift pump and all the lines. Currently trying to get all the air out of the lines now
The 612 fuel system will self prime if you fill the fuel filter before cranking. Takes three or four 10 second bursts, then a 20 second burst. It will start then if it hasn't already.

You should not need an additional fuel pump but that's a good place for an air leak.

If you get desperate fill up the filter and run a hose from the intake on the filter to a bucket of clean fuel.

The system should self prime and run.

bill
 

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