Recommendation for building economical expediter apartment.

ilyakushnirskiy

New member
I am interested to receive recommendations on how to find individuals who have extensive experience in assembling van conversion projects. I am interested to Install a shower/toilets / small bed on the end floor of the duplex, a small couch on the bottom floor, and a small desk to be working with 2 people max, a small refrigerator on the bottom, minimal storage space. electrically I want to have an extra battery, I would like to be able to function even when the van is not driving. Outlets for conventional use in all parts of the van. The electricity will be used significantly for computer Use, cell phone charging, minimal led lighting. If it is possible to make a toilet operable like a boat toilet that would be ideal, in other words, a holding tank that would be able to pump out at camping sights. I would not need heated water, cold waters shower will be enough. If possible as large water tank as possible. I need all of this to fit in a 6 x 5 feet. The shower I would like to install on the side where there is a sliding door, this way when it is open space is utilized at least halfway. the rest of the space in the bank will be open space that will be utilized for carrying cargo. It will also be refitting but on the sides, we will put railings to secure the items that will be loaded onto the van for transport. I need to have this project done as efficiently as possible. I am realistic of a budget, but want to use the most basic materials, and installs to save as much money as possible on the project. Will be using a Sprinter 170 Extended with more space, and will be allocated out of all the inside space 6 feet in length and 5 feet in width, it is actually a bit more but all of the width side to side can be used and from the front of the seats assuming we can put the seats as far in front as possible input a wall to secure them in place. After that we are making as a separate room because from that wall on top starts a small bed, on the bottom to the right there is a small couch, which can open and become like a bed also. in the front, there is a shower toilet. to the right of the couch approximately 6 feet from the wall to another wall we puta small retractable table that we can use to work on the computer. I would like to put somewhere a small stainless steel fridge. I have many ideas that I would like to share. I would also be willing to pay for projects and blueprints and guidelines on how to get it done. The item will be used in order to be on the road virtually all the time, enjoy relaxed working, office modern, environment. with shower and sleeping options. The van needs to be comfortable yet cozy, simple, not complicated, easy-going, affordable, convenient. The overall budget for this project is roughly $15k. I know this is a tight budget, but judging by the cost of the insulation, and the toys, I should be able to purchase most of them for under $10k, and then 50% for the actual work of installation. I could probably be moved up another `10 - 15 percent depending on the project.
 

elemental

Wherever you go, there you are.
I am interested to receive recommendations on how to find individuals who have extensive experience in assembling van conversion projects. I am interested to Install a shower/toilets / small bed on the end floor of the duplex, a small couch on the bottom floor, and a small desk to be working with 2 people max, a small refrigerator on the bottom, minimal storage space.
A weight budget would be useful to see if what you want to do is feasible. The 170" Extended version of the Sprinter has the lowest cargo capacity, so whatever is used for the "living area" and its facilities gets taken away from what is already a reduced cargo capacity. You also didn't mention which model of Sprinter you were considering (2500/3500/etc.) - each has its own maximum load capacity from which the "living area" resource weights will be subtracted to determine what the residual cargo capacity will be.

So how much cargo weight capacity (in pounds/kilograms) do you need for your actual cargo, and what model of Sprinter (2500/3500/etc.) will you use as the base?
 

ilyakushnirskiy

New member
I would like to take this mode.
SPRINTER 170” EXTENDED
  • Overall Length = 289 inches
  • Interior Length (from the back of front seats to back doors) = 180 inches
  • Approximately 15 inches longer inside than the regular 170

From the back doors to the area was the living space will start I would leave 6 to 8 feet for Cargo area, but I would not be rigid in a sense that I would not enclose that place, and would rather have it open because even though I might have a very large cargo painting, I could still fit it in the middle. So I have a win-win, my living room is in the front next to the driver and passenger seat, my bed is on top in the first part of the van and then I have cargo, which is not divided, but has railings for securing freight.
 

Shawn182

Well-known member
I think you are grossly underestimating what it takes to build out a van conversion to your specifications and budget expectations.
 

elemental

Wherever you go, there you are.
I totally understand. How can I get an estimate for my budget and what I can get for it?
When you go to a builder with custom needs, you pay custom builder prices to transform your vision into reality. At custom builder prices, your $15k budget won't stretch far. The iterative process consists of the builder first reviewing your list of needs, considering how to meet them, and what the cost could be; Then you remove things from your list of needs; and repeat until you get to something that the custom builder will build for what you are willing to spend.

Your initial list of needs could be summarized as:
  • Insulation of the living area walls/ceiling
  • No heating
  • Sleeping space for two (separate bunks, one a convertible coach/bunk)
  • Wet bath (sink, toilet with shower - cold water only)
  • Water storage - fresh/gray/black - for 2 people for ? days
  • Table space for two people to work (on laptop computers?)
  • Refrigerator (size ?)
  • No cooking capability
  • No/minimal food/consumables/gear storage in this living area
  • Battery storage system supplying power for running the fridge, charging laptops and mobile phones, pumping water, LED interior lighting (recharging how - solar? vehicle alternator? shore power? and how long between recharges ?)
You want everything it to fit in a 6'x5' area at the front of the cargo compartment (presumably water storage can go in tanks underneath).
It will be necessary to estimate how long people will live in the van without moving/re-supplying, especially with respect to food storage and electrical power storage/consumption/recharging.

Your post doesn't indicate your location - that will be a factor in which custom builders people might recommend (that are close to you).

An alternative approach will be for you to research what you would like to do using the Sprinter Forum build threads and develop a cost estimate for building it yourself. You indicated that you thought you would spend approximately $10,000 on materials and equipment, with $5,000 to pay for the installation of those materials. Depending upon how much customization is required, your actual materials versus labor ratio might be just the opposite of that - $10,000 labor for $5,000 worth of materials, at custom van builder prices. That is why many people on the forum build out vans themselves, in order to use their own labor and not pay the custom builder prices.


With respect to the weight budget I mentioned, your desired 1,000 lb. max cargo capacity leaves you with the following "build" weights for the first two levels of van you might use:

2020 Sprinter models with 170” Extended wheelbase:
  • 2500 with 3649 lbs. payload - (1,000 lbs. cargo, 500 lbs. for driver+passenger+gear, 2149 lbs. for build+consumables) - $49,295 list for base model
  • 3500 with 4058 lbs. payload - (1,000 lbs. cargo, 500 lbs. for driver+passenger+gear - 2558 lbs. for build+consumables) - $51,645 list for base model
There are two more models (3500xd and 4500) but they seem overkill for what you want to achieve. 2100 lbs might be enough for the build and consumables that you want, assuming that your maximum cargo weight estimate of 1,000 lbs. is realistic for the cargos you plan to transport and you don't add to many other options on that consume weight.
 

ilyakushnirskiy

New member
You are absolutely right, for now I am just gathering information and trying to price the viability of this idea. Like I said I would b willing to spend approximately $15 - 20k fora decent sprinter around 2015, and another $15k on the conversation to start with, this may not be the final version but it will be a start. I do not need a cooking capability, I just need shower, restroom, bed, desk. very small fridge under neath minimal. I even think that the bed on top may to be necessary at first.
 

smcguyer

2006 3500 Cab chassis. With 12' Box.
If you know how to backpack, you throw your backpack in the vehicle, along with a portable water jug, and maybe a portable RV toilet, and a few other things. You change the sleeping bag depending on the season. I have 3 bags that cover any condition (there is no substitute for down in the winter). There are portable water heaters for a shower setup (Zodi). The Zodi is great and can be used to preheat a mass of water in say, a 5 gallon pail, to any shower temperature you like, independent of the water temperature by recirculating the water in the pail. The backpack setup works great as long as you dont need air conditioning at night. For a vehicle, the really cheap camping gear works great, saving tons of money over ultra-light high-end backpack gear. This approach buys you a lot of time to figure out if you have the time/money/plan to do a conversion. Budget travelers that live out of their vehicles months at a time use this approach.. they just install a flat plywood floor in the back of the truck, station wagon, SUV, van (no rear seats). You can upgrade to more comfortable items like a mattress if you cant get used to a inflatable mattress, etc.
 

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
Look at my conversion at https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/84547/
You have different goals, so you might change the floor plan, but per my experience it is hard to beat using old camper interior for conversion.
In my case it was reverse engineering as I started with old camper, who did not want to sell for reasonable price ($6k) and in the mean time our travel requirement changed, when need for fast and economical way to travel with dogs become more important than big RV.
x million on underestimating scope of such project. I retired from remodeling and have all the tools, so having all the stuff already coming from old camper (had to buy only couple of new things) my estimate is 400-500 man-hours I put into project.
I had my mind pretty set what I want, when that doesn't happen very often.
Meaning 1st time builder can easy double of triple the time I put.
$20k for decent Sprinter from 2015? Dream on.
 

elemental

Wherever you go, there you are.
You are absolutely right, for now I am just gathering information and trying to price the viability of this idea. Like I said I would b willing to spend approximately $15 - 20k fora decent sprinter around 2015, and another $15k on the conversation to start with, this may not be the final version but it will be a start. I do not need a cooking capability, I just need shower, restroom, bed, desk. very small fridge under neath minimal. I even think that the bed on top may to be necessary at first.
I think the base van [used, good condition 2015 Sprinter] is going to cost more than you think, and the conversion as well unless you do much of the work yourself. I've got something like $17k - $20k into converting my van with a mix of DIY, pre-made assemblies, and one piece (D2 heater) done by a custom builder. If this is for a prospective money-making arrangement, you might try starting with just the van, with some items added (not built-in):
  • A cot to sleep on, with a sleeping bag and some pillows
  • A small refrigerator that you can run off of a GoalZero (https://www.goalzero.com) battery pack [you will have to be careful to make sure that the refrigerator can run off of the battery pack's voltage; the GoalZero battery packs are apparently slightly lower voltage than the nominal 12 VDC available in a standard vehicle power system)
  • A GoalZero battery pack with enough capacity to run your fridge for as long as you will standing in one location
  • Portable water container(s) with potable water
  • Some spongers so you can take sponge baths
The cost of these to you is just the materials/products. This will let you try out your idea without sticking a lot of capital into it, and it will let you refine your ideas about what you need while you are on the road. A lot of the people on this forum who built out campers started just this way in order to figure out what really made sense for them.

If you want to do something more than just put the bare basics in place at first, think about including these with/in place of some of the above:
  • A diesel-fired forced hot air heater (e.g. Eberspacher D2 Airtronic) to give you some heat, especially if you will be staying in one location for a day or more and it is cold outside [cost is $1k to $3k, depending on whether you install it yourself or have it installed]
  • A small under the hood auxiliary battery system (12VDC, 200 amp-hours or so) with either a charging relay OR a DC-to-DC charger so you can charge it up when the van is running [cost is from $500 to $2000 depending on what you use and whether you do it or have someone else do it]
  • Interior insulation and paneling so that you can hold the heat in, along with insulated window coverings OR a curtain/curtains to isolate the heated space [cost is probably from $1k to $5k (or more) depending on how much you insulate and whether you do it or have someone else do it]
Just the items in this last list could cost as much as $10k if you have a custom van builder do it and they go all out. A recent thread on the forum had a disappointed buyer who had laid out something like $15k to a custom builder and was very disappointed with what he got in return. It is generally far more cost effective to figure out how to do some of the stuff yourself (using this forum), especially the easier stuff like insulation and paneling. The items in the last list could cost more in the neighborhood of $3k if you do it yourself.

There is nothing like investigating for yourself, however. Let the folks on the forum know what area you are in, and there may well be someone who has knowledge of some builders in that area that you can go talk to -
 

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
A diesel-fired forced hot air heater (e.g. Eberspacher D2 Airtronic) to give you some heat, especially if you will be staying in one location for a day or more and it is cold outside [cost is $1k to $3k, depending on whether you install it yourself or have it installed]
Bought clone for $110 on ebay. They have relatively good recommendations and since I live in hot climates - reliable cabin heater is not my high priority.
 

ilyakushnirskiy

New member
Look at my conversion at https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/84547/
You have different goals, so you might change the floor plan, but per my experience it is hard to beat using old camper interior for conversion.
In my case it was reverse engineering as I started with old camper, who did not want to sell for reasonable price ($6k) and in the mean time our travel requirement changed, when need for fast and economical way to travel with dogs become more important than big RV.
x million on underestimating scope of such project. I retired from remodeling and have all the tools, so having all the stuff already coming from old camper (had to buy only couple of new things) my estimate is 400-500 man-hours I put into project.
I had my mind pretty set what I want, when that doesn't happen very often.
Meaning 1st time builder can easy double of triple the time I put.
$20k for decent Sprinter from 2015? Dream on.
how much can I get same exact configuration? would move the bed to the front and keep the back for the cargo area, some customization, but overall i would keep it th same.
 

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
Beware that Sprinter is not 40 foot long and it is not giving you much space to play with.
The only way to move bed to front in my design would be cancel 1 of 3 things I have in front
-shower
-big fridge
-small kitchenette
I would love to find extended body Sprinter bus, but looks like they don't exist on US market and I want it to be SRW with 2.1l engine for economy
Since finishing the project, I missed the option of putting house batteries under the floor and I think the rectable step the bus come with takes too much valuable space. To make it perfect I would put small step and install fresh water tank there. That would free the space under the dinette for more cargo. Not that my present set doesn't have lot of storage space under the bed, but you have to observe Center of Gravity.
Another compromise is that for East-West bed I had to lift it to windows level, where you have extra width. That put the dinette seat at the level where passenger's line of view is above the windows.
I don't plan to have passengers there for long vacations, so I am fine with it.
 

ilyakushnirskiy

New member
I am ok with getting rid of the big fridge, I do not need a small kitchenette a desk with a chain or 2 chairs would be perfect, I can cook on the desk and just some storage units for all types of storage. I need a shower and a restroom.
 

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
The wisdom I learned owning several RV is
"don't try to redneck too much - sooner or later you will hate the RV and yourself for it".
What experience with RV do you have?
I like good food, so for 2 of us and 3 small dogs we really need big fridge.
Washing dishes in miniature bathroom vanity sink? That might be doable when you dine out, but it would be depressing for me.
I sacrificed wet toilet for porta poty as my main goal was to use max what I have and black tank did not fit under, while old toilet would take huge amount of space.
Have you ever wonder why all those vacation resorts are usually 5 stars?
People want to leave their house to nicer environment.
When you make redneck-drive, you'd rather stay home, than go in it.
 

HarryN

Well-known member
In your position and target cost to implement, it "might" make more sense to:
- Buy a shorter van and gain more usable capacity for the work aspect
- Buy a trailer to deal with the live in aspect

The 170 ext is a nice vehicle , but its weight capacity is substantially consumed by the vehicle itself.

Trailers are made in high volume and $15 - 20K can buy something very useful. $15-20 K in a conversion parts and labor is completely different.
 

ilyakushnirskiy

New member
I rather invest $15 - $20k into a 170 Extended Sprinter and would like to hire someone to do those projects. I would be willing to pay for the actual project, blueprints, everything that it would entail the actual budget and the step by step process in terms of actual money to be spent and relative timing that it would take to get it done. In other words for $10k you can do the following, strip the van, insulate the van, put certain cables for electricity, install a battery, etc. For another 10k you can install furniture such as kitchenette and working desk, opening couch, and storage. For another 10k you can install a bathroom with shower, Understand the cost of materials and labor, and be able to plan.
 

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