Transmission issues, wont shift into 4th

tjames17

New member
Hi all,

I recently got a 2006 dodge sprinter 2500 with 140k and it has been running well so far (I've put about 1500 miles on it). I just drove it 600 miles this past weekend and it ran great but when I went to drive it today I am experiencing transmission issues. At first the engine was revving up really high before shifting and then when i would slow down it would down shift hard causing the van to jerk. Then as it was trying to shift from 3rd to 4th it acted like the transmission had gone into neutral until it slowed down and went back into 3rd. This happen multiple times as I was trying to get it back home.

I am not sure what could be causing this. I have looked at the connection for the transmission control module under the driver seat and it looked fine. I have not drained the fluid yet but it was not leaking and was working fine before.

If anyone could help direct me to what this could be that would be much appreciated.
 

NelsonSprinter

Former Nelson BC Sprinter
Low transmission oil can cause this.
Excess metal sludge on the magnetic solenoids within the electrical plate can cause this
 

tjames17

New member
Thanks,

It started throwing a P0730 code. I went and looked at the 13 pin connector at the transmission and it did have some ATF on the pins. I cleaned it up the best i could for now and am order a new one. But could this be the cause of the code and issue?
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
Perhaps?

ATF can mess with the signalling between the speed sensors, solenoids, and the control module, and generally prevent the clutches from acting properly.
Scanning the Transmission Control Module with a Sprinter-aware scan tool may provide you with more information?

-dave
 

tjames17

New member
I just brought a icarsoft MBII scanner to try and reset the transmission code and hopefully solve my problem. At this point I have changed the transmission fluid and everything looked ok. Inspected the 13 pin connector and the connection at the TCM and cleared the transmission codes but have not had any luck. The van still will shift very hard and then when it trys to go into fourth it acts like its shifted into neutral. As soon as i clear the fault code it comes back with the improper gear ratio code.
I have been going through the live data-stream on the scanner and saw that the RPM sensor '2' was reading about half of the transmission input speed and RPM sensor '3' was only reading zero even while moving. I have attached a picture of this screen. Should those sensors be reading the same as the engine RPM and could this be causing my problem?
 

Attachments

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
I’d have to hit the manual to directly answer this, but...
These two sensors are on the conductor plate, above the valve body, and connect electrically to the TCM via the13-pin connector and harness. They sense the rotation speed of two of the clutch housings (see manual for which ones..) which turn at various ratios depending upon which gear is engaged. The input- and output-shaft speeds are determined by other speed sensors at the torque converter and rear wheels.
I would have to go for a drive to see how sensor 3 behaves on my van, but “always zero” sounds suspicious?
(though I see your output speed is zero, which implies you aren’t moving)

-dave

Added: screen shots of AP200 in various gears and output shaft speeds...
Sensor 3 is zero in 1st, 5th, and Reverse gears, matches Sensor 2 in other gears.
AC3ABC80-0650-4463-BF62-CEAECB694FB9.pngFFA5C12C-77E5-4423-9F0E-513C38AB867A.png5B8C07DA-EF75-4012-834F-508F6F02014B.png44CEF2FB-414A-4419-90EB-4C75BF16545A.png
68C5ACE4-BBCA-4141-88BD-DAE97B1FAE71.jpeg
 
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tjames17

New member
H
I’d have to hit the manual to directly answer this, but...
These two sensors are on the conductor plate, above the valve body, and connect electrically to the TCM via the13-pin connector and harness. They sense the rotation speed of two of the clutch housings (see manual for which ones..) which turn at various ratios depending upon which gear is engaged. The input- and output-shaft speeds are determined by other speed sensors at the torque converter and rear wheels.
I would have to go for a drive to see how sensor 3 behaves on my van, but “always zero” sounds suspicious?
(though I see your output speed is zero, which implies you aren’t moving)

-dave

Added: screen shots of AP200 in various gears and output shaft speeds...
Sensor 3 is zero in 1st, 5th, and Reverse gears, matches Sensor 2 in other gears.
Thank you for the response, I have since driven the van more while watching the RPM sensors, I had only been in first gear while watching the reader before, but i had someone else drive while i watch it an saw that the RPM sensors are working in the way you showed above when it shifted out of first. So they all appear to be working.

I did notice tho in the pictures you posted that your engine output speed was 534RPM. When i was in 3rd at about 40mph my output speed was only about 500RPM and i am assuming you weren't going 40MPH in first. It appears that my output speed sensor is reading low compared to what your sensor is reading. Is this an easy sensor to test or access/replace?

I am just getting pretty stumped about what is happening and causing this problem. I have called the local dodge dealership but they have recently laid off their sprinter technician.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
I was driving gently to encourage early shifts, catching screen shots as I went, and barely made 5th gear at about 40mph. (I’m literally on a grocery run)

The output shaft is computed from rear axle speed and varies directly with road speed.

Your computed ratios between input shaft, Sensor #2, Sensor #3, and output shafts should be the same as mine in each gear, even if your final drive ratio at the axle is different.

If your ratios are different then you’ve likely got a clutch pack or sprag that is slipping, either due to a damaged sprag clutch, a hydraulic control problem causing insufficient clutch piston clamping pressure, or worn clutch plates within a clutch pack.

-dave
 

tjames17

New member
The ratios appear to be the same as what you are getting for each gear up through 3rd (will often get stuck in 3rd). You mention that the output shaft speed is computed from the rear axle speed, my rear left wheel speed sensor does not appear to be working, could this be why it is reading differently?

I have driven it a bit more and it will occasionally have smooth shifts and shift all the way to 5th, but most of the time will shift hard and get stuck in 3rd gear. Then I will clear the transmission codes and it will intermittently work. There does not appear to be any consistency with how the transmission is acting. I am going to take a video later today or tomorrow with the scanner plugged in and try to better show what symptoms the van is experiencing.
 

tjames17

New member
You may consider dropping the pan and checking for sprag debris. Before check the fluid level with the correct dipstick.
I have drained it and checked the pan, there was some build up on the magnet but nothing to bad. I don't have the correct dip stick but i drained about 5 quarts and put 5 quarts back in.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
You need the dipstick...
Or even just a plumber’s snake...

Note that Dodge and MB approach their sump measurements differently.
The Mopar tool bottoms on the pan, while the MB has stop ears that suspend the stick from a receptacle cone on the conductor plate.

From the Dodge service manual:
14EFA8B6-5CE4-4401-95F0-BF33B2608D28.jpeg

Mercedes NAG1 Chart:
1BF077D5-0FF4-4D1F-B692-79F59A98A915.jpeg
 
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tjames17

New member
UPDATE: I think I have solved the problem.

After going through the live data more I noticed that the left rear wheel speed sensor was reading way lower than the right one. I then jacked up the van and was spinning the rear left wheel while looking at the data stream and it wasn't reading until you got it spinning pretty fast while the right side would immediately start reading as soon as the wheel was spun. I then cut the line that went to the left rear wheel and spliced it in with the right wheel sensor. This causes them to read exactly the same, both based of the right wheel. I then took it for a spin and the van seemed to be working as normal. I have driven it a 15 miles or so and it is shifting fine and going through the gears as it should be.
I am surprised that this fixed it, i will keep updating if anything else happens.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
Agreed. If the sensor isn’t seized in the hub, tap it in gently against the tone ring and allow it to self-gap.
If it’s seized in the bore get it moving with penetrant, then clean and reinstall it.
Glad you’re getting this sorted.
The CAB/ABS module shares the wheel speed data with the IC, TCM, ESP, and ASR systems, so corrupted data will spill all over...

-dave
 
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tjames17

New member
The sensor is seized in the hub pretty good. The gap looked fine (the same as the passenger side) I am ordering up a new sensor to throw in. I plan on driving it running with both sensors reading off the passenger side rear wheel until the new one comes in.

Thanks for the all the advice.
 

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