Why lockdowns are the wrong policy

[Bobnoxious]

Attention to personal responsibility would probably resolve this issue.

Please enlighten us your definition of "Personal responsibility"?

 

[Bobnoxious]

Sounds like doctors are making economical advises?
We already have President who makes medical advises, so how far that craziness will go?
Coming to real life, I moved to Las Vegas from B[]San Francisco area.[/B]
Lot of my Californian friends have jobs who can be done from home and regardless pretty strict closures - in CA business still runs in lot of companies.
That doesn't work with Las Vegas casinos, who had to be closed and since they run about 3/4 of Nevada economy, that was economical disaster.
So they reopened casinos couple months ago and now people are dying by multifold.
Not easy decisions for sure.

I see, things are coming into focus. How long did you live and suffer in Frisco?

 

[eralimited57]

Take off the face diapers and OPEN UP AMERICA!

 

[Kajtek1]

Attention to personal responsibility would probably resolve this issue.

See the "updated" murals above of Las Vegas major. Somebody evidently made her responsible for deaths and it was published in newspapers, yet nothing changed.
I did not live in the City, but east of San Francisco for 30 years. The best time of my life.
Lot of my CA friends used to live in the City as singles, but when it come to raising the kids - they moved to East Bay.
The same happen to my Vancouver friend, who looking for safe neighborhood ended in Victoria.
Similarly in Las Vegas - looking for house on quiet street, I ended with "1 leg" on desert.

 

[Aqua Puttana]

Weeelllll ...
Did Sweden do it right? Sort of a whimpy shut-down (some schools).
...

Do i think Sweden "did it right"? Not at all by comparison with Japan.
...

As Japan shows, lockdowns are an unnecessary sledgehammer ... but if the population doesn't follow reasonable behavioral guidelines, it's one of the few easily-imposed public health mechanisms available.

--dick (a horse's nosebag holds a LOT of popcorn, and is an effective mask)

Almost every interview of Sweden officials includes comments that what they are doing isn't necessarily good for other countries.

It's not like Japan didn't do anything. The island nation Japan isolated itself by restricting any tourists or basically any visitors at all. My recollection is that anyone landing in Japan was/is required to quarantine for 14 days.

The immunity from mask wearing will be interesting to sort out. If that is the case it looks good for Japan eventually reopening. That has been one of my concerns with complete isolation as New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan, etc. have practiced. How can they ever open back up without an effective vaccine.

"unnecessary sledgehammer"
Japan has a very different culture from the USA, and Sweden for that matter. Can there really be any world universal response to this pandemic or others in the future? What works in one place may be destined to failure in others.

I'm very concerned about the powers which governments have grabbed in the name of Covid-19 control. They will not easily give up those powers even after the pandemic is a thing of the past. In some ways that is not all bad, but it also is not likely to be all good.

Our NYS Gov. Cuomo almost gets a gleam in his eye when he talks about his "New Normal". I understand that a new normal will come about as a reasonable response to the SARS2 pandemic. It is a logical response. I'm not looking forward to our government legislating my new normal.

As to what countries did best?
It will be subjective. Are the benchmarks infection and death? Are the benchmarks economic recovery? Are the benchmarks impact on citizen's rights? Etc., etc. I believe that any assessment should include all factors, not just a few. It will be very difficult to sort out.

Time will tell.

vic

 

[Kajtek1]

Bob brought crucial point IMHO.
I haven't been to Japan, but spend some time in Germany. Their culture is very strict in observing government orders (at least it was years ago, when I was there). They drive on right side of the road, they stop at stop signs, they don't walk where it is posted - quite opposite to what we see in US and actually most of nations surrounding Germany have nonchalant culture as well. It was quite entertaining how Turkish workforce was changing culture on German streets.
Same with Asian people - I met and worked with lot of them in CA. They do observe the orders.

 

[ECU]

If you're freaked by the deaths, you're being played. LIES LIES LIES!!!
They are over counting. CDC says only 6% of deaths actually come from Covid.
You CAN do things to stay healthy and beat the virus if you get it.
Total deaths in the US are unchanged over previous years.

 

[Kajtek1]

Total deaths in the US are unchanged over previous years.

Sounds like you did not notice that we do have way less traveling cars and since car travel is the biggest killer in USA - that changed statistics quite a bit.
Meaning Covid is marginal killer comparing to cars, but when we do have to drive, we can also afford 10 cents for the mask.

 

[ECU]

You can stay inside your home the rest of your life. I'm not stopping you.
A mask in your car is not safe enough. You need to duct tape over the vents. And that back door of the Sprinter, it isn't sealed very much.

 

[Kajtek1]

Now you are making idiot of yourself. I guess you drive with no seat belts as well?
You can make your outside going 100 times safer by few seconds of inconvenience.
That is good trade in my books.

 

[Roamers]

Please enlighten us your definition of "Personal responsibility"?

Everyone is ultimately personally responsible for the outcome of their actions.

Regardless of what is "allowed" (i.e., opening a casino) it is up to the individual to decide if the potential exposure is a good idea.

 

[ECU]

You're joking. Ok. You got me. I thought you really meant what you were typing.

Now you are making idiot of yourself. I guess you drive with no seat belts as well?
You can make your outside going 100 times safer by few seconds of inconvenience.
That is good trade in my books.

 

[flman]

See the "updated" murals above of Las Vegas major. Somebody evidently made her responsible for deaths and it was published in newspapers, yet nothing changed.
I did not live in the City, but east of San Francisco for 30 years. The best time of my life.
Lot of my CA friends used to live in the City as singles, but when it come to raising the kids - they moved to East Bay.
The same happen to my Vancouver friend, who looking for safe neighborhood ended in Victoria.
Similarly in Las Vegas - looking for house on quiet street, I ended with "1 leg" on desert.

If its so great in California, why did you move? Oh that's right, people like you voted to make it expensive and authoritarian, then you move to a new state and vote to screw that one up just the same.

 

[flman]

Sounds like you did not notice that we do have way less traveling cars and since car travel is the biggest killer in USA - that changed statistics quite a bit.
Meaning Covid is marginal killer comparing to cars, but when we do have to drive, we can also afford 10 cents for the mask.

You seem to be ignoring all of the new cases of heart disease, diabetes, suicidal depression, domestic violence, plus those starving countries are getting less food and starving more. So much for bleeding heart liberal kindness.

 

[Kajtek1]

You seem to be ignoring all of the new cases of heart disease, diabetes, suicidal depression, domestic violence, plus those starving countries are getting less food and starving more. So much for bleeding heart liberal kindness.

You are making my case.
With less travel, less dining, less work the crime is much lower and forced diet lower obesity-related deaths as well.
Maybe suicide grow, but what % it has comparing to Covid?

 

[Kajtek1]

If its so great in California, why did you move? Oh that's right, people like you voted to make it expensive and authoritarian, then you move to a new state and vote to screw that one up just the same.

You have no idea what you are talking about.
I moved out of CA for my retirement as job is no longer keeping me there, while those millions of citizens who are moving down there - blow the property values out of proportion.
So I cashed on good life I had in CA and bough Las Vegas mansion for 1/4 what I sold my CA house for.
In another words, it is California life, who allow me to retire years before my SS would like me to and have good life without job seeking.

 

[Bobnoxious]

Bob brought crucial point IMHO.
I haven't been to Japan, but spend some time in Germany. Their culture is very strict in observing government orders (at least it was years ago, when I was there). They drive on right side of the road, they stop at stop signs, they don't walk where it is posted - quite opposite to what we see in US and actually most of nations surrounding Germany have nonchalant culture as well. It was quite entertaining how Turkish workforce was changing culture on German streets.
Same with Asian people - I met and worked with lot of them in CA. They do observe the orders.

Millennials suck, and millennials parents suck as well as their grandparents for making millennials possible.

 

[Bobnoxious]

China Virus has pegged all My BS meters.

 

[flman]

You are making my case.
With less travel, less dining, less work the crime is much lower and forced diet lower obesity-related deaths as well.
Maybe suicide grow, but what % it has comparing to Covid?

Maybe in your bubble it is working that way, but children have been locked in their houses for over 6 months, no exercise, eating junk food, working towards obesity, diabetes, and heart disease.

Domestic crime and divorce is at an all time high, but you stay in your ivory tower, and pretend it never happened.

The covid is a joke, you say to follow the science, 30,000 scientists around the globe, say that lock downs are worse than the China Virus.

No response to post #357, wonder why?

 

[flman]

You have no idea what you are talking about.
I moved out of CA for my retirement as job is no longer keeping me there, while those millions of citizens who are moving down there - blow the property values out of proportion.
So I cashed on good life I had in CA and bough Las Vegas mansion for 1/4 what I sold my CA house for.
In another words, it is California life, who allow me to retire years before my SS would like me to and have good life without job seeking.

Cant fault you for that, but lets not turn Nevada into Commifornia.