When to go back? What to go back to?

ECU

Well-known member
I went back to work Monday. I mostly work alone. I do have to get to the hardware store. Online order, pickup outside.
Lowes is strange. No line. difficult to get stuff down from above to stock shelves.
HD has lines.
I also quit wearing the mask.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...

As a practical consideration it occurred to me that reaching the 60 - 70% Herd Immunity level is inevitable. Whether we get there by natural selection, or a vaccine, it will happen. I guess that the road we take to get there is the question. There is no easy road.

...
Herd Immunity is enough relief for approximately 80% of the population which will have a more manageable case of the flu and get through it. Those people can return to a more normal life.

For those of us at risk, Herd Immunity does little to help. Herd Immunity means that the spread of the virus is minimized. The virus doesn't go away. It is still going to be hanging out there to infect people. At risk people may get relief if a vaccine which works is developed and rolled out to the general public. That is still not a slam dunk.

A bright spot for me is that the medical community appears to be developing some better treatments for those who have the Covid-19 disease and need hospital care. To my knowledge medications are still just in the review stages. It appears that the hopes for plasma treatment aren't dashed yet. Ending up on a ventilator is no longer the go to for treatment. Being that the death rate in NYC is reported to be around 80% for those who were put on ventilators, I'm ok with avoiding that for treatment.

Unless there is some sort of significant break through for treatment, I can see social distancing/isolation for at risk people easily going into 2021. I'm not looking forward to that.

:2cents: vic
 

ECU

Well-known member
Boost your immunity. Cold medicines help when you have it. Lots of Vitamin A,C,D and zinc.
Sad that the folks in assisted living will all get it and the same amount will die with or without isolation.
The death rate is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2% overall. For those under 65... much less.
I've gone back to work. I don't work with other people and it usually includes half a day in my home office anyway.
My business is specifically limited by the government's emergency action. So I'm not doing any business with the public and new contracts until the emergency has ended and I might get my rights back.
 

flman

Okay wait for it....... Red Herring cop out!
Boost your immunity. Cold medicines help when you have it. Lots of Vitamin A,C,D and zinc.
Sad that the folks in assisted living will all get it and the same amount will die with or without isolation.
The death rate is somewhere between 0.1 and 0.2% overall. For those under 65... much less.
I've gone back to work. I don't work with other people and it usually includes half a day in my home office anyway.
My business is specifically limited by the government's emergency action. So I'm not doing any business with the public and new contracts until the emergency has ended and I might get my rights back.
Youtube is pulling all video's for vitamins etc. that are not in line with the corrupt WHO. Sad, in our darkest hour, they can only be political, instead of helpful.
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Herd Immunity is enough relief for approximately 80% of the population which will have a more manageable case of the flu and get through it. Those people can return to a more normal life.

For those of us at risk, Herd Immunity does little to help. Herd Immunity means that the spread of the virus is minimized. The virus doesn't go away. It is still going to be hanging out there to infect people. At risk people may get relief if a vaccine which works is developed and rolled out to the general public. That is still not a slam dunk.

A bright spot for me is that the medical community appears to be developing some better treatments for those who have the Covid-19 disease and need hospital care. To my knowledge medications are still just in the review stages. It appears that the hopes for plasma treatment aren't dashed yet. Ending up on a ventilator is no longer the go to for treatment. Being that the death rate in NYC is reported to be around 80% for those who were put on ventilators, I'm ok with avoiding that for treatment.

Unless there is some sort of significant break through for treatment, I can see social distancing/isolation for at risk people easily going into 2021. I'm not looking forward to that.

:2cents: vic
'No Evidence' That Recovered COVID-19 Patients Are Immune, WHO Says.....


https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...dium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews


The World Health Organization has pushed back against the theory that individuals can only catch the coronavirus once, as well as proposals for reopening society that are based on this supposed immunity.


In a scientific brief dated Friday, the United Nations agency said the idea that one-time infection can lead to immunity remains unproven and is thus unreliable as a foundation for the next phase of the world's response to the pandemic.


"Some governments have suggested that the detection of antibodies to the SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, could serve as the basis for an 'immunity passport' or 'risk-free certificate' that would enable individuals to travel or to return to work assuming that they are protected against re-infection," the WHO wrote. "There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection."


The statement comes days after Chile announced it would begin issuing immunity cards that effectively act as passports, allowing travelers to clear security at airports with a document that purportedly shows they have recovered from the virus. Authorities and researchers in other countries — such as France and the United Kingdom — have expressed interest in similar ideas, while some officials in the U.S., such as Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, have mentioned it as one possible facet of a reopening strategy.


The concept for such a card is largely based on the premise that an individual can only contract the coronavirus once before developing the necessary antibodies to fight it off. That premise undergirds another common theory: the concept, known as herd immunity, that if enough people have been infected with the coronavirus — and are therefore immune — its transmission will slow and the risks of infection will diminish even for those who haven't caught it yet.


But these ideas depend to a large degree on the supposition that one cannot catch the coronavirus a second time — an idea that world health authorities said leaders should not count on right now. As of Friday, the WHO said, "No study has evaluated whether the presence of antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 confers immunity to subsequent infection by this virus in humans."


What's more, data reported from the world's early COVID-19 hot spots, such as South Korea and China, have shown that a growing number of recovered patients appear to have suffered a relapse of the disease.


By mid-April, Korean health authorities said that just over 2% of the country's recovered patients were in isolation again after testing positive a second time. And in Wuhan, China, data from several quarantine facilities in the city, which house patients for observation after their discharge from hospitals, show that about 5% to 10% of patients pronounced "recovered" have tested positive again.


It remains unclear why this is occurring — whether it is a sign of a second infection, a reactivation of the remaining virus in the body or the result of an inaccurate antibody test.


Dozens of antibody tests for the novel coronavirus are already on the market, with varying degrees of reliability and accuracy. House Democrats have launched an investigation into the antibody tests and whether the Food and Drug Administration should increase its enforcement of them, according to CNN.


"At this point in the pandemic, there is not enough evidence about the effectiveness of antibody-mediated immunity to guarantee the accuracy of an 'immunity passport' or 'risk-free certificate,' " the WHO warned.


"People who assume that they are immune to a second infection because they have received a positive test result may ignore public health advice. The use of such certificates may therefore increase the risks of continued transmission."
 

flman

Okay wait for it....... Red Herring cop out!
WHO, how did they all of a sudden gain any sort of credibility, after they pandered to China, and lied to the world?
There are other sources that said weeks ago that you may not be immune after you get it, I will stick with honest sources, thank you.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Just because for today's present information it is possible for some to catch the virus more than once, doesn't mean that Herd Immunity won't be a factor. All of a sudden now the WHO has decided to be conservative. Why weren't they conservative early on and call for air travel and other isolation measures to be enacted when it would have helped to contain the spread?

My moods are up and down during this NY Pause. Right now my feelings are that the USA will need to reopen one way or another. The alternative may be to sit back and watch society as we know it to slowly collapse. No civilization has lasted forever. Our government and economic experiment launched in 1776. A very short time compared to some other countries and forms of government.

For example. The Romans had extensive agriculture, large cities, central sewers, central water, municipal projects, world trade, etc. The Roman Empire didn't "Fall". It stair stepped away from being a successful empire. It didn't collapse in one fell swoop. As the government failed to be able to provide what the citizens/population needed it gradually fell apart over many years.

Tomorrow, or even tonight my view may change. I do enjoy roller coaster rides though.

vic
 

elemental

Wherever you go, there you are.
If having had COVID-19 doesn't convey a significant amount of immunity to getting COVID-19 again, then a vaccination for COVID-19 will not convey a significant amount of immunity against getting COVID-19. This would leave two stark choices: Continue to use physical isolation among the population forever to prevent outbreaks, or open things up and let Darwinian processes act as they have for millions of years.
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
If having had COVID-19 doesn't convey a significant amount of immunity to getting COVID-19 again, then a vaccination for COVID-19 will not convey a significant amount of immunity against getting COVID-19. This would leave two stark choices: Continue to use physical isolation among the population forever to prevent outbreaks, or open things up and let Darwinian processes act as they have for millions of years.
Part of the Darwinian procedure has always included mans' desires for self preservation, at any costs or human endeavor or activity.... careful for what you wish for, it can get ugly pretty quickly.
 

rollerbearing

Well-known member
Or, you might get your annual COVID/Flu combo jab.

It may be that you'll have relatively high immunity to COVID-2019 but not COVID-2020. We might have to accept higher risk vaccinations than we do now. Possibly live vaccines or grown in monkey kidney cells etc. If it does partition into the Northern and Southern Hemisphere annual strains it may make it easier (or harder) for us to get ready for the next upcoming season.
 

flman

Okay wait for it....... Red Herring cop out!
Just because for today's present information it is possible for some to catch the virus more than once, doesn't mean that Herd Immunity won't be a factor. All of a sudden now the WHO has decided to be conservative. Why weren't they conservative early on and call for air travel and other isolation measures to be enacted when it would have helped to contain the spread?

My moods are up and down during this NY Pause. Right now my feelings are that the USA will need to reopen one way or another. The alternative may be to sit back and watch society as we know it to slowly collapse. No civilization has lasted forever. Our government and economic experiment launched in 1776. A very short time compared to some other countries and forms of government.

For example. The Romans had extensive agriculture, large cities, central sewers, central water, municipal projects, world trade, etc. The Roman Empire didn't "Fall". It stair stepped away from being a successful empire. It didn't collapse in one fell swoop. As the government failed to be able to provide what the citizens/population needed it gradually fell apart over many years.

Tomorrow, or even tonight my view may change. I do enjoy roller coaster rides though.

vic
I like what you are saying. Now fix the thanks button!
 

flman

Okay wait for it....... Red Herring cop out!
If having had COVID-19 doesn't convey a significant amount of immunity to getting COVID-19 again, then a vaccination for COVID-19 will not convey a significant amount of immunity against getting COVID-19. This would leave two stark choices: Continue to use physical isolation among the population forever to prevent outbreaks, or open things up and let Darwinian processes act as they have for millions of years.
True Dat!
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
If having had COVID-19 doesn't convey a significant amount of immunity to getting COVID-19 again, then a vaccination for COVID-19 will not convey a significant amount of immunity against getting COVID-19.
There's a difference between the (i'll call it) chance antigens your body develops to fight the existing virus, and the engineered vaccines that can be produced.
The current swat of vaccine developments include at least 9 different approaches, although more than one specifically target the "spike" protein.
"The COVID-19 vaccine development landscape" : https://www.nature.com/articles/d41573-020-00073-5
If a vaccine waving the spike as a target doesn't work, they may try using other target proteins.

The "convalescent plasma" approach probably involves two antigen systems, one the short-term IgM and the other the long term IgG.
(i say "probably" because i haven't dug into that area).
Until fairly recently the gamma globulin shot for hepatitis was such an approach.

It ain't over 'til the fat lady doesn't catch it.

... but that still leaves the accepted possibility that any vaccine might only work for a year or so. At which point you get another shot.

--dick
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...

... but that still leaves the accepted possibility that any vaccine might only work for a year or so. At which point you get another shot.

--dick
If it can be rolled into an annual flu shot I'd be willing to go for repeating that process.

And for what it may be worth, I've never felt the need for a flu shot prior to this latest situation. My personal history has been that I rarely get sick. Those times that I have become ill I haven't needed medical intervention to recover. Given my present age, I'm not so certain that I want to hang my hat... health on that history anymore. I've already decided that when it is available an annual flu shot is in my future.

To be clear, I'm not at all an anti-vaxxer. I mostly don't like to take pills unless prescribed for a specific problem. I'm not one to pop an over the counter pill because I have an off day.

:2cents: vic
 

ECU

Well-known member
I have an old friend that has a product he says will go after the bacteria causing the pneumonia. Prevents it from replicating. They should have the product out in about three years.
 

tinman

Well-known member
I have an old friend that has a product he says will go after the bacteria causing the pneumonia. Prevents it from replicating. They should have the product out in about three years.
There are several different organisms, including bacteria and fungi, and viruses that can cause pneumonia. Some of the bacterial versions are already pretty effectively treated by antibiotics, although evolving resistance is a big problem. There is a lot of concern that a pandemic disease caused by resistant bacteria could be in our future. What fun!
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
If it can be rolled into an annual flu shot I'd be willing to go for repeating that process.

And for what it may be worth, I've never felt the need for a flu shot prior to this latest situation. My personal history has been that I rarely get sick. Those times that I have become ill I haven't needed medical intervention to recover. Given my present age, I'm not so certain that I want to hang my hat... health on that history anymore. I've already decided that when it is available an annual flu shot is in my future.

To be clear, I'm not at all an anti-vaxxer. I mostly don't like to take pills unless prescribed for a specific problem. I'm not one to pop an over the counter pill because I have an off day.
By not being vaccinated, you're a potential "carrier" to infect someone else, no matter how well *your* system prevents symptoms.

--dick
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
By not being vaccinated, you're a potential "carrier" to infect someone else, no matter how well *your* system prevents symptoms.

--dick
:idunno:

I suppose. But this is 'Merika. It's all about me.

vic

P.S. - I did say that I was going to get a flu shot.
 

ECU

Well-known member
If the vax isn't good and you already had it...?
 

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