When to go back? What to go back to?

[autostaretx]

And then there's Iceland ... random testing (pull who to test from the phone book) of (currently) 10% of the population.
If you want to get tested, there's a company offering the service. (the government/hospital testing has similar restrictions to ours).
Finding lots of asymptomatic carriers (or ex-carriers).
Not a full lock-down, but crowd-banning and a compliant population that tends to follow "suggestions" like 6-foot (2 meter) distancing.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...19-small-nations-iceland-big-data/2959797001/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/world/europe/coronavirus-testing-iceland.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/ice...ic-approach-could-help-other-countries-2020-4

But what they DO do is intensive tracking of "contacts" ... if someone tests positive, they chase down the previous number of days' people they've been with.

But even if they're not officially "locked down", it can sure look like it:



--dick

 

[ECU]

What is the point of more old news. The info from those articles date back to 3/23/20. Since then Sweden has jumped significantly above Norway and Finland.
This is the same crap as the malaria drug stuff. Old news.
The isolation is working significantly and the left/MSM wants nothing more than to destroy our civilization.

March 29, 2020
https://bbc.com/news/world-europe-52076293
March 23, 2020
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles...z-faire-model-in-controversial-virus-response
March 24, 2020
https://ft.com/content/31de03b8-6dbc-11ea-89df-41bea055720b
On and on. CNN doesn't date their article.
NO, Sweden has not found a solution. Today (4/9) they have 8419 cases and 687 deaths.
This article is old info from weeks ago.
Norway has 6010 cases and 80 deaths.
Finland 2487 cases and 40 deaths.

 

[tinman]

From the stand point of caution, this could very well be a diabolical Chinese commie plan, whipped up buy a commie controlled news media designed to tank the global economy, weaken America, turn all citizens against one another with the ultimate goal of driving Trump from office. Trump, the sole roadblock to Chinese Global Domination!!!

Additionally, anyone accepting China Communist Party's information as GOSPEL, is a blithering IDIOT!!!

Well yes, there is that.

 

[autostaretx]

You want "fresh news"?

How about yesterday's New England Journal of Medicine's preliminary report by one of the remdesivir studies?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007016

Quoting the Results section:
-------
Of the 61 patients who received at least one dose of remdesivir, data from 8 could not be analyzed (including 7 patients with no post-treatment data and 1 with a dosing error). Of the 53 patients whose data were analyzed, 22 were in the United States, 22 in Europe or Canada, and 9 in Japan. At baseline, 30 patients (57%) were receiving mechanical ventilation and 4 (8%) were receiving extracorporeal membrane oxygenation. During a median follow-up of 18 days, 36 patients (68%) had an improvement in oxygen-support class, including 17 of 30 patients (57%) receiving mechanical ventilation who were extubated. A total of 25 patients (47%) were discharged, and 7 patients (13%) died; mortality was 18% (6 of 34) among patients receiving invasive ventilation and 5% (1 of 19) among those not receiving invasive ventilation.
--------------

The criteria for getting into the study were (in short): already in-hospital, less than 94% blood oxygen saturation.
Being in the study meant that you did NOT receive other "experimental" treatment (such as chloroquine).
The patients described were treated between Jan 25 and March 7th, but were continued to be followed for the final survival numbers. At least 7 of the 30 on the ventilators were still on the vents when the paper was written.

--dick

 

[tinman]

I did vet this before posting, and it is legit.

Simulation research shows COVID-19 can spread farther by those exercising outdoors.
https://www.fox13news.com/news/simulation-research-shows-covid-19-can-spread-farther-by-those-exercising-outdoors

I read that from another source yesterday. Makes sense, and I've assumed all along that runners would put out a bigger cloud and have behaved accordingly. Also pay close attention to wind direction. I found the 20 metre distance for hard biking quite interesting. The peleton isn't going to be quite so tight!

 

[ECU]

You want "fresh news"?

How about yesterday's New England Journal of Medicine's preliminary report by one of the remdesivir studies?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007016

Quoting the Results section:

--dick

Are you insinuating that this is Hydroxychloroquine?
One could easily answer that this is too small of a study to discuss.

 

[Aqua Puttana]

...
NO, Sweden has not found a solution. Today (4/9) they have 8419 cases and 687 deaths.
...

But... but... Sweden has no real testing and has not practiced isolation except for at risk people. Restaurants, bars, etc. remain open. If the rest of the world is correct, then with no lock down in Sweden the actual numbers of affected/infected people must be through the roof. The CFR from those numbers above has little meaning.

Some data is here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH7Fd7aSulA

I thought that Sweden was included, but it is not. I do know that any data that I have seen has Sweden as very low in tests per thousand citizens.

As an aside. Japan may be worth watching.
At around 16:00 it shows Japan as 0.5 people tested per 1000. A text gives some additional comments.

I agree. I'm very interested in what happens in Sweden and some of the densely populated under developed countries.
...
Added:
A report that I saw just today indicates that Japan is not as locked down as many medical professionals recommend. Japan may be another country to watch over the long term.

vic

 

[glasseye]

... the left/MSM wants nothing more than to destroy our civilization.

Seems to me that strategy would not be in their best interests.


.

 

[rollerbearing]

Seems to me that strategy would not be in their best interests.


.

It's probably just Trumperbole.

 

[ECU]

Seems to me that strategy would not be in their best interests.


.

I can agree with that. I never said that liberals were smart.

 

[Gsand31415]

There is an interesting discussion of the effects Sweden's open schools, restaurants, and travel at https://wattsupwiththat.com/daily-coronavirus-covid-19-data-graph-page/

Daily updates, still waiting for 4/12. This is the closest thing I've seen to a case/control study on the efficacy of government-enforced shutdowns.

 

[tinman]

Sweden will be interesting, but it's still pretty challenging to compare the experiences of different places. There are a lot of uncontrolled variables, including measurement and reporting.

 

[Aqua Puttana]

Sweden will be interesting, but it's still pretty challenging to compare the experiences of different places. There are a lot of uncontrolled variables, including measurement and reporting.

True enough. If Sweden is successful overall, that will be what the naysayers will hang their hats upon.

If Sweden doesn't have a disastrous death toll ratio to population, as a gross approximation that will somewhat discredit the doomsday death tolls that the medical people say we are successful in avoiding by using lock downs and the other economically damaging methods of many world governments.

The response worldwide is new territory, even when compared to the 1918 H1N1 pandemic. If the current general medical consensus advice is correct about the spread and effect of the Covid-19 disease, Sweden will suffer a gross loss of life relative to their overall population.

vic

 

[tinman]

There will undoubtedly be lots of post pandemic (that's assuming, of course, that there is a "post") analysis and as with everything many people will choose to believe whatever fits their narrative. Only you and I are truly objective. I still think that the public policy response of isolation and appropriate lockdown was appropriate for most jurisdictions. The story continues to develop.

 

[ECU]

Sweden. What is your definition of success? They have a cut off for the ICU. 80 and above, no ICU. 60 and above, any prior medical condition and no ICU for you.
And don't forget. They are considering the body's age, not chronological. So, you don't get help unless they like you.
Very sad. Saves tons of money for the social welfare and pension funds.

 

[flman]

Sweden. What is your definition of success? They have a cut off for the ICU. 80 and above, no ICU. 60 and above, any prior medical condition and no ICU for you.
And don't forget. They are considering the body's age, not chronological. So, you don't get help unless they like you.
Very sad. Saves tons of money for the social welfare and pension funds.

I heard that muslims get treated no matter what their age is, and that they get to be treated before women.

 

[Aqua Puttana]

Sweden. What is your definition of success? They have a cut off for the ICU. 80 and above, no ICU. 60 and above, any prior medical condition and no ICU for you.
And don't forget. They are considering the body's age, not chronological. So, you don't get help unless they like you.
Very sad. Saves tons of money for the social welfare and pension funds.

Interesting. Are those Sweden's normal general guidelines for medical treatment, or special guidelines enacted in response to the Covid-19 disease?

I recall reading about a migratory North American native people. The migration pattern included crossing a river. When a tribe member(s) got to being unable to navigate the river crossing, they were left behind with some food. Harsh, but everyone knew where they stood. (I never verified that story as fact.)
RETRACTED:
I definitely did read the above in some history book. After a bit of reflection I tend to not believe the story. Why? I got thinking about my Native American friends. In general they have a strong sense of family. Tribal custom is that you are bound by tradition and honor to respect and take care of the elders. For that reason I doubt that any tribe would just leave an elder to die. Most of my friends are Iroquois Nation aka 5 Nation so that could be a factor vs other parts of the country. FWIW.

Maybe the statistics from the densely populated under developed countries will reveal something? Of course then there is the wildcard of those residents have existing diseases and malnutrition.

It's very possible that there will never be any definitive answer. But there will be lots of learned opinions and Monday morning quarterbacks I'll bet.

vic

 

[ECU]

Interesting.
I recall reading about a migratory North American native people. The migration pattern included crossing a river. When a tribe member(s) got to being unable to navigate the river crossing, they were left behind with some food. Harsh, but everyone knew where they stood. (I never verified that story as fact.)

Maybe the statistics from the densely populated under developed countries will reveal something? Of course then there is the wildcard of those residents have existing diseases and malnutrition.

It's very possible that there will never be any definitive answer. But there will be lots of learned opinions and Monday morning quarterbacks I'll bet.

vic

Well, that is your definition of success. You answered the question well.
Should we also base the harsh decisions on IQ, race, income, politics or as flman commented, religion?
How about just ending it at a particular age. 75? 35?
I've always liked the idea of giving each person a set amount of money. When it is gone, so are you.
Should we all just leave it to the hospital admittance person or a death panel?
Government should distribute the red pill for everyone (movie: On the Beach)?

So, why the war on drugs? Fentanyl is your friend. Abort away. End air bags, seat belts and speed limits.

We could have a TV reality show of people killing themselves in crazy ways. Jump out of an airplane, with no parachute. Attempting to break speed records.

We don't need no safety net, end Social Security. Who needs health insurance anyway. Lets get Boeing back to flying.

 

[Aqua Puttana]

Gee. Thanks for the analysis... and assumptions. People pay big bucks for that.

I see no need to reply.

vic

Well, that is your definition of success. You answered the question well.
Should we also base the harsh decisions on IQ, race, income, politics or as flman commented, religion?
How about just ending it at a particular age. 75? 35?
I've always liked the idea of giving each person a set amount of money. When it is gone, so are you.
Should we all just leave it to the hospital admittance person or a death panel?
Government should distribute the red pill for everyone (movie: On the Beach)?

So, why the war on drugs? Fentanyl is your friend. Abort away. End air bags, seat belts and speed limits.

We could have a TV reality show of people killing themselves in crazy ways. Jump out of an airplane, with no parachute. Attempting to break speed records.

We don't need no safety net, end Social Security. Who needs health insurance anyway. Lets get Boeing back to flying.

 

[rollerbearing]

Maybe the statistics from the densely populated under developed countries will reveal something? Of course then there is the wildcard of those residents have existing diseases and malnutrition.


vic

This article had some interesting charts and graphs comparing where the US stands next to some of the countries we might consider to be less developed. It does challenge some assumptions. And raises questions ie: Why are our maternal death rates during birth so high compared to the other developed countries (even some undeveloped ones)?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2020/apr/06/coronavirus-american-reaction-economy-covid-19