Comparing a T1N with NCV3, maintenance

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Father_Pedro

New member
Hi everony,

I'm at the point of buying a sprinter. I've been looking around for a while and at the moment I have two really good options.

Option 1: A 2017 314 CDI L2H2 model with 26,000 miles on it.

Option 2: A 1998 312D Chassis Cabin custom build with 10,000 miles on it.

Now the second option is my favorite. It is in such a good state. (Used to be a crisis command van from our fire department.) and for what I've read, is the T1N model, the most reliable, robuust sprinter built bij Mercedes. (Am I right? or does anyone have remarks on that statement?)

One of my concerns is... as it is already 22 years old and I'm counting on using it for 10 to 15 years. Will I be able to find parts for it within 10 till 15 years... Can anyone work on it, or do I have to go to a Mercedes workshop?

Does anyone has any other advice, when comparing these two...

Kind regards,
Nik
 
M

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
The 1998 model is a TN I think (not T1N). It has a different looking front end, headlights etc. The rest of the body and suspension is the same as the T1N. The engine will be a mechanical injected (not common rail) diesel. Power output is less than the T1N and NCV3s, the engine is louder as well. It is pre canbus, so no chip keys, etc. It uses basic K line communication for the ECM diagnostics. You will need an appropriate scanner to set the injection pump timing, and check for codes. It is a very simple engine and control system. Mercedes can likely still get common parts, but body and interior parts are getting rarer. The engines fuel injection system is standard bosch VE style. Very common on many vehicles from the 90s and early 2000s. Are you in europe? If so there is plenty of experience with these systems.

The 312D has no emissions controls, while the NCV3 will have DPF and probable SCR.

The 312D is going to need new rubber hoses, possibly rubber brake lines, and a few seals. At that low of mileage you need to give it a very good inspection, and long test drive.
 
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Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
My 2 cents is long term you'll probably have a more reliable engine with a mechanically injected diesel. it is hard to tell 10 to 15 years in the future weather replacement parts will be easier or harder. Iona 52 year old car and can get pretty much anything I want for it because it's a popular long-running classic. I have my doubts that older Vans are going to have that kind of support, but Mercedes ysed to be very good at supplying parts ( at a Price $$$) for older vehicles ( i have no modern knowledge of this). All that being said The more modern van will probably give you better service better parts support for the next 10 or 15 years. I believe the earlier NCV had some teething pains but hopefully most of that has been sorted by now. I would have difficulty making that call, but as I already have an old very mechanical car, I kind of enjoy I have any more modern engine as well so would probably choose the newer van.
 
2

220629

Well-known member
To me, as a practical matter, it just seems pretty optimistic to convert a 22 year old vehicle to an RV and expect it to give reliable service up to 35+ years total life.

That thought is totally negated if you are willing to immerse yourself to the point of hobbyist and cult member. Eg. - VW Vanagon and some vintage RV trailer owners immerse themselves fully.

Good luck with whatever you choose. (If you go the old school route don't ever pass up an opportunity to hoard any spare parts.)

:cheers: vic
 
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Father_Pedro

New member
Midwestdrifter said:
The 1998 model is a TN I think (not T1N). It has a different looking front end, headlights etc. The rest of the body and suspension is the same as the T1N. The engine will be a mechanical injected (not common rail) diesel. Power output is less than the T1N and NCV3s, the engine is louder as well. It is pre canbus, so no chip keys, etc. It uses basic K line communication for the ECM diagnostics. You will need an appropriate scanner to set the injection pump timing, and check for codes. It is a very simple engine and control system. Mercedes can likely still get common parts, but body and interior parts are getting rarer. The engines fuel injection system is standard bosch VE style. Very common on many vehicles from the 90s and early 2000s. Are you in europe? If so there is plenty of experience with these systems.

The 312D has no emissions controls, while the NCV3 will have DPF and probable SCR.

The 312D is going to need new rubber hoses, possibly rubber brake lines, and a few seals. At that low of mileage you need to give it a very good inspection, and long test drive.
Click to expand...
This is amazing, Thanks a lot!. I will take a closer look to all the info you provided.

Just to make sure that we are talking about the same model, and therefore the right engine. Here are two pictures. I thought this was the T1N model?

Pic01
Pic02

Thx again!
 
M

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Yeah, definitely a 312D, If Cheyenne says its T1N, I would defer to his expertise, we did not get the early T1Ns in the USA. I have previous experience with the mechanical injected diesels of that era, and some MB/german cars pre OBDII. I do not have direct experience with the early T1N (312D).
 
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Father_Pedro

New member
I'm located in Belgium. I actually like the looks of a T1 more. But it's hard to find them for sale. I will try to retrieve the VIN and run it through the webside your provided.

But, so, The info Midwestdrifter provided still applies for this model, and engine too ...

"The engine will be a mechanical injected (not common rail) diesel. Power output is less than the T1N and NCV3s, the engine is louder as well. It is pre canbus, so no chip keys, etc. It uses basic K line communication for the ECM diagnostics. You will need an appropriate scanner to set the injection pump timing, and check for codes. It is a very simple engine and control system. Mercedes can likely still get common parts, but body and interior parts are getting rarer. The engines fuel injection system is standard bosch VE style. Very common on many vehicles from the 90s and early 2000s.

The 312D has no emissions controls, while the NCV3 will have DPF and probable SCR.

The 312D is going to need new rubber hoses, possibly rubber brake lines, and a few seals. At that low of mileage you need to give it a very good inspection, and long test drive."

The two wiki pages give slightly different info

https://sprinter-source.com/wiki/in...nter_1st_Generation_.281994_.E2.80.93_2006.29 ==> OM601 engine (Guessing this one is right)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Sprinter#First_generation_(1995–2006) ==> OM612 engine

Good, nice!! Thanks a lot!, will take some time to look into it tomorrow.

Any other remarks, tip, info about the model, engine, things I need to pay attention. Always welcome.
 
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Patrick of M

2005 T1N 2500 (NA spec)
As an RV etc I would get the TN, with a base like that you are far ahead of a stock NCV’
Also camper vans don’t put on that many miles, so,with good maintenance it will be mostly just rubber hoses and stuff . The advantage of a mechanical diesel is less emission controls and sensors to go wrong, and more general fixability. The vw bus community knows a lot about Bosch mechanical diesel injection.
It is pretty rare for a camper van to do more than 5-10,000 kms per year. Also if the TN is manual that is also an advantage (although maybe the NCV in Europe is as well).
I might shy away from an automatic TN.
Also as the TN was a emergency vehicle, it was more than likely well maintained re hoses etc, fire stations etc do not skimp on maintenance, vehicle probably just aged out per their protocols.
 
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