Boardhead build thread

[Airtime]

It seems you have your wires already run through conduit for your build, but next time you could try a wire lubricant such as this:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/IDEAL-32-oz-Clear-Wire-Pulling-Lubricant/1017915

Argghhh!!! But of course! My wife was even saying can't we oil it or something? Wish I had known that!

I extensively used my Leica D3 for my conversion. Measurement can be made at a needed angle, mounted on the tripod with a little gadget allowing rotation against back end it became poor man 2D scanner.

The unit has a rear flap which can be rotated in 3 positions: folded in to measure from the unit back, flipped 90 degree to measure from the inside side of the flap and flipped 180 degree to measure from a corner. With difficult measurements I averaged 3 results. For me it was a “must” tool.

That looks like a great tool, would have saved me hours and hours I spent mapping out my interior with tape measures and T-squares...

 

[Airtime]

If Blue sea made a GFCI breaker I definitely would have used them everywhere, but I'm not seeing the advantage of the ELCI - it is my understanding that you need the 5mamp limit of the GFCI to prevent death. So I will be putting a GFCI outlet as the first connection on every circuit and then running everything downstream from that from the protected terminals of the GFCI. I also plan to be connected to shore power approximately never (perhaps at my home behind a 15 amp GFCI outlet), so I punted on the ELCI at the inlet - maybe it will get added on the next revision of the build.

Yes the ELCI is really intended for boats, where stray ground current in the water with poor shore power connection can electrocute swimmers. It's actually more of a risk in fresh water than salt water, because the human body is a much better conductor than fresh water. I went back and forth but decided to install one. AC in a mobile vibrating environment could some day lead to a ground fault in places other than an outlet, and then sometimes I'm connected to possibly questionable shore power and it's raining and I'm in an out of the van, and who knows? It won't hurt to have it other than a few less dollars in my pocket.

I do use shore power, in the past about 1/3 of the time. For example, Oregon state parks are really very nice and when traveling/windsurfing on the coast we would often boondock for a couple days and then stay at one of the parks for a night to dump, fill water, take unlimited hot showers.

 

[Graphite Dave]

Argghhh!!! But of course! My wife was even saying can't we oil it or something? Wish I had known that!


That looks like a great tool, would have saved me hours and hours I spent mapping out my interior with tape measures and T-squares...

Another choice is to do all the wiring with SOOW cords. Have done two conversions with each owned for 5 years without any issues. Smaller diameter, far more flexible and much tighter radius. Installation is much quicker. Almost all the cords are inside the cabinets and only 3 were in the wall or ceiling. Cords in the wall or ceiling were one 14/2 and two 16/2. Did have 3 in the floor. Cut a slot in the 1" polyiso floor insulation for the cords. Installed two 12 volt fuse blocks to limit the number of cords that needed to be in the floor. One block on each side of the van. Floor cords were for 120 volt AC, 12 volt DC and the third was for powering the 750 watt electric air heater from the vehicle powered inverter.

I did all the 80/20 cabinets in 2D Cad. Built the floor 80/20 framework and then built off that. Did the cabinet face frames and then just measured from the face frame back to the wall where I wanted to bolt the frame to the wall. Extrusion length did not need to be exact because the extrusion is slotted and I did not want the extrusion to touch the wall so it was thermally isolated. Even worn tape measures worked well.

Only posted this for others to give them another choice to think about.

 

[Airtime]

Another choice is to do all the wiring with SOOW cords. Have done two conversions with each owned for 5 years without any issues. Smaller diameter, far more flexible and much tighter radius. Installation is much quicker. Almost all the cords are inside the cabinets and only 3 were in the wall or ceiling. Cords in the wall or ceiling were one 14/2 and two 16/2. Did have 3 in the floor. Cut a slot in the 1" polyiso floor insulation for the cords. Installed two 12 volt fuse blocks to limit the number of cords that needed to be in the floor. One block on each side of the van. Floor cords were for 120 volt AC, 12 volt DC and the third was for powering the 750 watt electric air heater from the vehicle powered inverter.

I did all the 80/20 cabinets in 2D Cad. Built the floor 80/20 framework and then built off that. Did the cabinet face frames and then just measured from the face frame back to the wall where I wanted to bolt the frame to the wall. Extrusion length did not need to be exact because the extrusion is slotted and I did not want the extrusion to touch the wall so it was thermally isolated. Even worn tape measures worked well.

Only posted this for others to give them another choice to think about.

Thanks Dave, good suggestions that would work well for many. Reasons for my different approach:

SOOW: the Ancor round wire is very similar—stranded and quite flexible—but it is also tinned wire which I prefer.

Wiring inside floor: I’m 6’2 and designed my floor to be 3/4” total subfloor plus insulation. Not enough room without a break in the subfloor, which I didn’t want.

Wiring inside cabinets: doing that where I can for the rest of the interior wiring. But my shower blocks access on driver side.

80/20 construction: I chose to do a modular frame design that I can build and/or modify in stages. Glad I did! I learned quite a bit about assembly and fasteners on the first one and applied that on later ones. Also I can build modules outside of the van and then move them in. Or back out for mods. I have found this very useful so far. Once finished, I’ll bolt them together to have the strength of a single frame.

Measuring: Your technique of building face frame and then building back to the wall sounds like a good one for the two tall cabinets I have not yet built—the fridge cabinet and the shower frame. I bought a piece of 1.25” PVC rod to use to cut for spacers to handle angled walls and for thermal isolation, got the idea from GeorgeRa.

And yes, even a worn tape measure can work ?. But that Leica tool would have saved me a lot of time on my van and on my home remodel. My approach on tools is to buy good ones as the need arises, and rationalize that it’s actually free due to time saved. Over the years I find I keep doing projects and those tools find many uses.

 

[GeorgeRa]

......................................
80/20 construction: I chose to do a modular frame design that I can build and/or modify in stages. Glad I did! I learned quite a bit about assembly and fasteners on the first one and applied that on later ones. Also I can build modules outside of the van and then move them in. Or back out for mods. I have found this very useful so far. Once finished, I’ll bolt them together to have the strength of a single frame.

Measuring: Your technique of building face frame and then building back to the wall sounds like a good one for the two tall cabinets I have not yet built—the fridge cabinet and the shower frame. I bought a piece of 1.25” PVC rod to use to cut for spacers to handle angled walls and for thermal isolation, got the idea from GeorgeRa.

And yes, even a worn tape measure can work ?. But that Leica tool would have saved me a lot of time on my van and on my home remodel. My approach on tools is to buy good ones as the need arises, and rationalize that it’s actually free due to time saved. Over the years I find I keep doing projects and those tools find many uses.

Modular design significantly simplified my conversion, practically all frames were put together on the bench and transfer to the van. Recently, I got a leak somewhere on supply line to sink's hot water hose and it took 15 min. to remove the galley to access the plumbing.

My favored, time stamped center punch kicked the bucket recently, can’t find equivalent replacement and repair would be difficult, I think this tool was about 55-60 years old and I had it for 45 years. It will be missed. ?

 

[GeorgeRa]

This could be useful for your series 10 built. I posted it on 8020 thread as well.

I just got 1” – 25mm corner connectors form McMaster and digested its label written in German and English, cost was $10.65. https://www.mcmaster.com/47065T244/

After some searching it is most likely made by Rexroth by Bosch - würfelverbinder 25 rexroth

https://docs.rs-online.com/3616/0900766b816ca108.pdf

https://www.boschrexroth.com/en/us/products/product-groups/assembly-technology/index

80/20 similar corner connector is $17.85, lower grade finish and without caps. Both are aluminum casts not Zn. https://8020.net/4042.html

 

[Airtime]

CABINET PROOF OF CONCEPT

Major milestone today--successful assembly of my Proof of Concept for my cabinet doors and drawers:
- Side opening door (under kitchen sink)
- Overhead opening door (will be overhead cabinets in multiple locations, mocked up using my galley)
- Drawer front (multiple locations

Finished proof of concept, open (note that HDPE is not final color, these prototypes were from scraps at CNC vendor and a little scuffed):


And closed:

This involved integrating the following:
- Full 3D CAD model in Solidworks driving fabrication
- 80/20 frame ordered from Solidworks Weldments cut list and assembled
- Birch plywood drawer boxes with dimensions taken from Solidoworks model, fabricated by The Cabinet Door Store
- Southco latches, geometry set up to latch to the slot in Series 10 extrusions, on all three door/drawer types
- Blum cabinet hardware, using the "Expando T" inserts for thin cabinet fronts, I've posted on before, adapted to 80/20
- HDPE panels fabricated from Solidworks part models by local CNC supplier including edge radiusing, machining for recessed Southco latches and holes for Blum hardware

And I'm happy to report that the integration of all these components was almost 100% successful!
- Drawers, doors, drawer fronts, hinges, latches all fit perfectly
- CNC machining was perfect
- Southco latch mechanism for Series 10 came out perfect, latches snug with no rattle
- And all matched the Solidworks model

The only issues:

1) Pan head screw heads in Blum drawer slide attachment to the frame interfered with the drawer. There is only 3/16" clearance on either side for these Blum drawer slides. Solution: Flat head screws and drilled countersink in hinge plate holes

2) The Blum soft close is not strong enough to cause the Southco latches to engage. It takes a slight push to fully close and latch. Not sure if there is a solution to this, but if not I'm sure it's one of those things I'll get used to. The doors and drawers close to within about 1/2" on their own.

Here's a view of the HDPE panels, front with recessed Southco latch holes:

And back, with holes for the Expando T inserts for hinges, overhead door arms, and drawer mounting:


Southco latch installed in recessed hole:


To be continued...

 

[GeorgeRa]

Looks great, congratulation. I don't have sliders with soft closure and like it, actually I love it, just need a little push to latch, I am certain soft closure can be disabled.

If these panels are protos only you could add countersinks to Southco holes.

Looking great!

 

[99sport]

Curious if you have estimates or measurements for weight for the various components: 8020 structure, HDPE panels and anything else significant. And cost estimates for HDPE panels (materials and machining) and hinges and latches.

 

[Airtime]

Looks great, congratulation. I don't have sliders with soft closure and like it, actually I love it, just need a little push to latch, I am certain soft closure can be disabled.

If these panels are protos only you could add countersinks to Southco holes.

Looking great!

Thanks! Many of the ideas come from your build.

Yes the panels are protos. I did a straight edge recess on the Southco latches which actually I think looks pretty good. But perhaps I may soften that edge a bit as you have done. And yes I think the push to latch will be fine, I also like the soft close as I can just shove the drawer and no slamming, so I'll keep that.

 

[Airtime]

Curious if you have estimates or measurements for weight for the various components: 8020 structure, HDPE panels and anything else significant. And cost estimates for HDPE panels (materials and machining) and hinges and latches.

No weight estimates at this point. I have a 3500XD DRW with 11k gross weight so I'm in no danger of going over gross. But I will add it up at some point. With Series 10, 1/4" panels on sides and back, and 1/2" on doors/drawers, I think it will be less than equivalent cabinets done in plywood.

And on costs--similar answer. Cost has some importance to me but it's down the list of priorities for me on the cabinets. My reference point is what it would cost Outside Vans to do my build so anything I do is way, way less than that. But I do plan to do a more detailed write-up of my cabinet methodology when done including parts used, costs etc. HDPE is not the cheapest way to go from a material standpoint--that would be something like Baltic Birch or other hardwood plywood. But then you have to finish it as well.

For some reference points... 1/2" HDPE is close to $300 for a 4x8 sheet, so it is around $9 per sq ft. 1/4" material (side and back panels) is about half that price. Plus shipping if you want other than white, black, or gray--whatever is stocked locally in your location. Shipping will be via freight and basically the same whether 1 sheet or 5. If you can tag onto another order at your local distributor, you might pay $100-150. If not, then you'll pay probably the full $250 freight charge and may also have a small order charge of another $100.

My entire van with galley, fridge cabinet, tall pantry cabinet, overhead cabinets in front and rear will use 1 full sheet of 1/2" material. Plus 3 sheets of 1/4" material for side and back panels etc. The Oregon warehouse for King Starboard ST in Indigo color is out of stock, so I had to bite the bullet and ship from Florida, full freight, small order fee for my 4 sheets. Including all shipping charges and WA tax ended up $1100. As I said not cheap but it's waterproof, machines well, and requires no finishing. If you stuck with locally stocked material you might pay 30% less.

I'm still getting a handle on CNC machining costs. Minimum order is generally $150, and everybody is busy. I've had quotes on doing my full set of doors and drawer fronts, 16 parts from one full 1/2" sheet, from $200-450. I think the $200 quote was done based on .dxf outlines and they missed some of the machining operations, plus not very responsive. My parts have machining on front and back so there is a second operation required on each piece, not just throw it on a CNC sheet cutter and done in an hour. So I'll probably go with the $450 quote because they take Solidworks part models directly--I've not had good luck so far with vendors that ask for .dxf files. And that vendor seems on the ball and responsive. They did my prototype parts and charged me the $150 minimum fee but gave me the material for free from scraps.

Longer answer than you wanted, maybe. It's a learning experience for me, and I might apply this in other ways in the future so it's been worth it for me. Plus it's still way cheaper than Outside Van

Edit: I should add that while the material costs and machining may seem high, the labor savings are huge. I received drawer boxes yesterday, CNC machined HDPE panels today, had the Blum hardware on hand, and built this up in a few hours. I now have confidence on ordering the full van build, and it will take me maybe a day or two to put all the doors, drawers, hinges, glides etc. together. No fabrication or finishing work required.

 

[Airtime]

Some progress to show, have been progressing multiple parallel threads but not yet done with any one. Have been learning more on 3D CAD and CNC, more on that below if you are interested. First some pics.

HDPE parts from my local CNC shop. They did make one mistake with some through holes, but they are really great to work with. They ordered the replacement indigo material and also made another set in gray so I'd have something to use till it comes in, all at no charge! Great guys.


The other material is black Hexa phenolic-coated birch plywood, purchased from Penn Elcom. I think this is what Adventure Wagon uses, at least it looks the same as my Moab bed. I treated the edges with black polyurethane to seal them.


And it all fit perfectly! Partially built modules in my staging area:


And another test fit in the van to confirm countertop, shower and fridge tall cabinet dimensions vs. curved walls:


More on the 3D CAD... I learned to use design tables in Solidworks for managing panel configurations and that has been really, really useful!

I can specify the cabinet frame opening dimensions and then check boxes for features such as overlay or not, clearances, mounting holes for Blum hinges, Southco latches, etc.; relief at corners for fasteners, etc. If I tweak a feature like radius or a hinge hole placement, it updates all panels using it. I will have in the neighborhood of 100 panel parts (!) when all said and done, and this makes it manageable. Building a new panel part file with the various features takes less than 5 minutes.

I've been feeding my CNC shop batches of parts about 10-20 at a time, a couple sheets of material, as I work through the design and gain experience. It has been a complete success, glad I invested in picking up a new skill. With my learning curve on the van and on CAD it has not been faster than using cardboard models, but it is definitely more precise and lots of mistakes caught early before cutting. And if I ever do build another van (who knows?) I can build it multiples faster.

 

[99sport]

Some progress to show, have been progressing multiple parallel threads but not yet done with any one. Have been learning more on 3D CAD and CNC, more on that below if you are interested. First some pics.

HDPE parts from my local CNC shop. They did make one mistake with some through holes, but they are really great to work with. They ordered the replacement indigo material and also made another set in gray so I'd have something to use till it comes in, all at no charge! Great guys.
View attachment 181134

The other material is black Hexa phenolic-coated birch plywood, purchased from Penn Elcom. I think this is what Adventure Wagon uses, at least it looks the same as my Moab bed. I treated the edges with black polyurethane to seal them.
View attachment 181135

And it all fit perfectly! Partially built modules in my staging area:
View attachment 181138

And another test fit in the van to confirm countertop, shower and fridge tall cabinet dimensions vs. curved walls:
View attachment 181137

More on the 3D CAD... I learned to use design tables in Solidworks for managing panel configurations and that has been really, really useful!

I can specify the cabinet frame opening dimensions and then check boxes for features such as overlay or not, clearances, mounting holes for Blum hinges, Southco latches, etc.; relief at corners for fasteners, etc. If I tweak a feature like radius or a hinge hole placement, it updates all panels using it. I will have in the neighborhood of 100 panel parts (!) when all said and done, and this makes it manageable. Building a new panel part file with the various features takes less than 5 minutes.

I've been feeding my CNC shop batches of parts about 10-20 at a time, a couple sheets of material, as I work through the design and gain experience. It has been a complete success, glad I invested in picking up a new skill. With my learning curve on the van and on CAD it has not been faster than using cardboard models, but it is definitely more precise and lots of mistakes caught early before cutting. And if I ever do build another van (who knows?) I can build it multiples faster.

Your "staging area" has an airplane in it?! Do you live at an airport or or is this remote from your home?

 

[Airtime]

Your "staging area" has an airplane in it?! Do you live at an airport or or is this remote from your home?

I'm building it in a hangar, airport is about 20 minutes away. Would be nice to have it at home but I live in a condo so that's not feasible...

 

[GeorgeRa]

Great work, congratulations. See the question on the picture.

 

[Airtime]

Great work, congratulations. See the question on the picture.

George you always do have a sharp eye for detail! Yes it is HDPE and yes those are four flat head stainless screws on the panel under the sink.

I plan to put some outlets in this panel, and I wanted it to be a removable panel. I thought about attaching it using the Blum Expando-T inserts from the rear as I did with the cabinet doors and drawer fronts, but it would be hard to reach them with the sink installed. I also thought about having this panel be a 1/4" inset panel as I am doing with other removable panels in side and rear, but I liked the look better having the same 1/2" overlay panel in front, matching the doors and drawers. So I decided to try the flush flat head screws and see how it looks.

I also think I am going to mount my countertop to the frame using the same countersunk flat head screws into the tapped end of the 8020 vertical frame members.

You also may notice the extra holes in the doors where the hinges mount. That was the CNC shop through hole mistake, should have been just 6mm deep. They will cut me a new, correct set when the replacement material arrives.

 

[GeorgeRa]

Agree that galley’s front panel is good for outlets or small meters. I would make this galley’s panel easily removable as well if I would be doing conversion again.

I like flat type screws better than button screws which I used but they could constrain HDPE expansion against aluminum. HDPE expands a lot in comparison to aluminum, you can calculate the mismatch for a given length. If you use screws mounted to t-nuts there should be enough give. In my case I mounted the countertop to tapped centers of 4 legs and decided to use button screws with enlarged hole, 3/8” diameter hole with 5/16”-18 button bolts. In hindsight I could have change location tapped holes to slots and use flat bolts, well, too late.

 

[Airtime]

Agree that galley’s front panel is good for outlets or small meters. I would make this galley’s panel easily removable as well if I would be doing conversion again.

I like flat type screws better than button screws which I used but they could constrain HDPE expansion against aluminum. HDPE expands a lot in comparison to aluminum, you can calculate the mismatch for a given length. If you use screws mounted to t-nuts there should be enough give. In my case I mounted the countertop to tapped centers of 4 legs and decided to use button screws with enlarged hole, 3/8” diameter hole with 5/16”-18 button bolts. In hindsight I could have change location tapped holes to slots and use flat bolts, well, too late.

Good point on the countersinks constraining the HDPE. I did do the calculations for my inset removable panels and concluded I would have 0.020" clearance around the edges to allow for HDPE expansion inside the aluminum frame.

For my countertop, I haven't decided on material yet. As my counter is mostly sink and induction cooktop, and mobile, I do want a non-brittle material. Thought about HDPE my sink will be undermount and I want to be able to use a silicone sealant as part of the mounting. HDPE is not so good for adhesives. Plus there is the expansion issue. Wondering if something like Corian has enough resin to be non-brittle, and whether it's expansion vs. aluminum is acceptable.

I'll have to research that and decide soon as I am finalizing my countertop template now that I have actual cabinets. I need to have it routed around that bulge at the back of the slider opening so that is one area where I'm relying on physical template rather than CAD.

 

[GeorgeRa]

Good point on the countersinks constraining the HDPE. I did do the calculations for my inset removable panels and concluded I would have 0.020" clearance around the edges to allow for HDPE expansion inside the aluminum frame.

For my countertop, I haven't decided on material yet. As my counter is mostly sink and induction cooktop, and mobile, I do want a non-brittle material. Thought about HDPE my sink will be undermount and I want to be able to use a silicone sealant as part of the mounting. HDPE is not so good for adhesives. Plus there is the expansion issue. Wondering if something like Corian has enough resin to be non-brittle, and whether it's expansion vs. aluminum is acceptable.

I'll have to research that and decide soon as I am finalizing my countertop template now that I have actual cabinets. I need to have it routed around that bulge at the back of the slider opening so that is one area where I'm relying on physical template rather than CAD.

You could consider https://richlite.com/ which is a paper composite, could be a good choice, it is machinable. There are other companies making this type of product. I would think that either polyurethane or epoxy glues could be used.

 

[Airtime]

WALL/CEILING PANELS, L-TRACK, WINDOWS

This part is starting to come together as well. Thought I'd post partial completion in case any last minute great ideas or suggestions emerge. Pics first and then some details.

CNC-cut bamboo panels, L-track, and window spacers, received and ready to try! And no I do not have Mercedes CAD for the wall and ceiling panels, I made my own models in Solidworks.


L-track almost finished, doing test fit on panels. All looks good, although I may have overdone my wire chase space at the wall/ceiling corner. May re-cut the outer ceiling panels to be a bit wider. I still have the short mid-ceiling L-track piece to install at the seam. I may add one rivnut & screw at center of panel in a few locations to control any sag.


Some more details on the design:

Components:

1) 1/4" bamboo plywood from NW Bamboo for ceiling and most walls
Reasons: I like the look. Linear grain, and will brighten what is otherwise a dark set of colors I've chosen. Will be sealed on both front and back plus edges with a clear finish, will have a stain shop do this for me once they are done. I am leaving a gap where the shower goes--I plan to have the shower use every last 1/4" of space.

2) 1/8" black ABS haircell for lower panels around wheel well in gear garage and behind shower and galley.
Reasons: Waterproof, inexpensive, matches existing Mercedes lower door panels, and is usually hidden behind cabinets anyway. Gear garage will have sailboards, skis and boots, etc. and so everything from waist-level down in walls and floor is 100% impervious to water.

3) Arctic Tern windows and blinds.
Reasons: Awning opening, double pane, nice screen/shade. I will inset the blinds into the walls. Rectangular holes in wall panels cut to fit outside of blind frame plus 1/4" for a bit of maneuvering room during installation.

4) Expanded PVC window spacers--two 1/2" thicknesses glued together to make a 1" thick spacer.
Reasons: Waterproof, and my CNC guy had some scrap material he gave me and charged just labor to cut.

5) Flanged L-track from Mac's Custom Tiedowns
Reasons: Panel mounting plus some attachment points, as many have done including Adventure Wagon. I bought their Moab bed kit, which is great. But didn't think I needed the extra structure of all those orange steel braces everywhere else.

I had used the heavier Cargo Equipment Corp L-track for my floor L-track including the Transit bench seat mounting. But for walls and ceiling I wanted a thinner profile, and it is what Adventure Wagon recommended when I called them. BTW the L-track they use is not actually Mac's, contrary to posts I have read here. It is an even thinner profile than Mac's, source not disclosed by Adwag.

Since Mac's is a short drive away here in Idaho, I was able to go with full 14' lengths for my ceiling. Given the wide 16-24" spacing of the ceiling ribs, I wanted to have continuous pieces for more strength. I'll mount some overhead clothing cabinets to them, not lifting engine blocks or anything like that.

On the walls, I cut into 3 sections to enable removing portions without taking out all cabinets. Since those runs are on continuous metal with screws spaced at about 6", I was less concerned on strength there.

6) 1/4-20 rivnuts and stainless flat head screws from McMaster-Carr
After reading up on corrosion I settled on zinc-plated rivnuts, stainless screws, and this anti-sieze lubricant.