IS THIS FOR REAL?

[Inspector]

I seem to have more trouble than seems normal with the M-B dealer. In for annual service I requested the DEF fluid (ad blue) be defined-refilled due to age of the van. I was informed Roadtrek relocated the DEF tank to the rear. Cost for labor due to relocation is $1100 additional...what the?

Steve

 

[Deleted member 50714]

Re: IS THIS F REAL?

No reason to drain and refill Ad Blue unless there is a reason to suspect contamination. If the DEF fluid is out of spec, it will throw a code. $1,100.00 appears a bit pricey. DEF can be tested.

 

[Inspector]

Bobnoxious, the reason to change the DEF was the age factor. The only time it gets new fluid is the yearly service by the dealer, due to the little mileage we put on yearly. (8years - 15,500 miles).

Steve Rehberg

 

[Aggie]

Assuming your Agile is similar to my SS Ideal the charge may be reasonable. Yes, the def tank is located mid way back, above the side door step, grey water and fresh water tanks. It looks like a factory location vs Roadtrek modification to me.
My def pump wasn’t producing adequate pressure - def pump had to be replaced - step, grey and fresh tanks had to be removed to access the def tank / pump. My MB shop wouldn’t remove / replace them so I agreed to do so myself. After raising the van 18 inches and about 2 1/2 hrs work I had the items removed. MB replaced the pump and I spent almost two full days replacing the offending items and related content level sensor electric lines, hoses, shields etc. Roadtrek used every bit of space for custom built grey / fresh tanks leaving no space for worker hands.
I tried to insert a small tube / hose down through the def fill line to pump out the def but couldn’t make that work. Removing the tank may be the only way to drain it. Puncturing the def tank, draining and patching the tank may be an alternative but removal of step, grey and fresh tanks would still be necessary to get to the def tank. I can believe the MB technician could spend the hours to equate the $1100 charge.

Similarly, years ago when MB shop (different one) had to replace Nox sensor or some related part they found they couldn’t access the sensor again due to the fresh water tank. Luckily the technician figured out that he could remove the inner fender liner and access and replace the sensor much easier than removing the tank.
These experiences demonstrated to me one of the reasons these RV conversions are so expensive - custom design and build of tanks, plumbing, wiring, etc to use every bit of space possible and then next to impossible work to install.

 

[Inspector]

Aggie, thanks for the information on the location of the DEF tank. After reading where it lives, ie above the step, grey and water tanks, I'm wondering if I'm asking for problems having those items removed by someone unfamiliar with Roadtrek' s? I might be better off leaving well enough alone...opinions?

Steve

 

[jdpartin]

Several years ago the heater in my 2013 RS DEF tank failed but it was under warranty so MB had to replace it. As mentioned by others here the DEF tank is above the fresh water tank so they had to drop the tank down to get to the heater at the bottom of the DEF tank. What should have been about a two hour job turned into 3 days. After I got the van back there was a water leak from somewhere around the fresh water tank. Rather than take it back to the MB dealer I jacked one side of the Sprinter up and dropped the water tank down about 6 inches and also had to drop the step to find the leak at the top of the fresh water tank where one of the water lines connected to the tank. I had to look through the access hole in the passenger seat base access hole and then work through that to fix the leak. Long story short, it was a bear to drop and tighten the leaking connection and took me about a week to find and tighten/glue the line back to the tank.

On the next trip back to the MB dealer I talked to the service writer about this (he was fairly friendly with me since I had been in there about 10 times for service already) and he told me they had to fix the DEF tank problem under warranty but they probably would not have touched it if it was a normal service because the fresh water tank was a third party installation.

 

[BobLLL]

I seem to have more trouble than seems normal with the M-B dealer. In for annual service I requested the DEF fluid (ad blue) be defined-refilled due to age of the van. I was informed Roadtrek relocated the DEF tank to the rear. Cost for labor due to relocation is $1100 additional...what the?

Inspector, there is a typo in your message - "defined-refilled." Did you ask for just a drain and refill? I've drained and refilled mine twice and it is easy. Nothing has to be moved. To take out the tank is another story. As others have said the door step and water tanks are in the way. But the drain hose is easy to access. Did the dealer think you were asking them to remove the tank and clean it? Or did RT make some massively stupid change between 2011 and 2012?

Again, maybe the problem is that your dealer, like the one near me, is a luxury car dealer that occasionally dabbles in sprinters. Most of the service writers at my dealer are really clueless about sprinters, especially rv conversions. Maybe a good independent shop would be better.

 

[Mein Sprinter]

Inspector, there is a typo in your message - "defined-refilled." Did you ask for just a drain and refill? I've drained and refilled mine twice and it is easy. Nothing has to be moved. To take out the tank is another story. As others have said the door step and water tanks are in the way. But the drain hose is easy to access. Did the dealer think you were asking them to remove the tank and clean it? Or did RT make some massively stupid change between 2011 and 2012?

Again, maybe the problem is that your dealer, like the one near me, is a luxury car dealer that occasionally dabbles in sprinters. Most of the service writers at my dealer are really clueless about sprinters, especially rv conversions. Maybe a good independent shop would be better.

Similarly I had to have my DEF tank replaced due to heater failure; pump failure, cracks, etc. on my 2010 Roadtrek Agile 1.5 years ago. Been out of warranty a long time. Mercedes wouldn't touch it. Contacted Dennis of Linden Engineering in Golden, Colorado. He and his crew partially dropped the fresh water tank and somehow squeezed the DEF tank out/replaced and it. Now so far all is well.

cheers...

 

[BobLLL]

Cracks in the DEF tank? I don't think I've heard of that problem before. Any idea what caused the cracks?

 

[Mein Sprinter]

Cracks in the DEF tank? I don't think I've heard of that problem before. Any idea what caused the cracks?

Sorry BobLLL, my bad, just looked up the old invoice. I apologize! No mention of cracks. Why I jumped in mentioning cracks, I don't know.. fake news..

cheers...

 

[BobLLL]

Well that's a relief. I didn't really want to crawl under looking for cracks. lol.

 

[Inspector]

I had asked the dealer to drain-refill the DEF tank and clean the nozzle on the spray injector (?) if things were crystallized. We got the van back and there was DEF fluid all over the step area and under the van. It was splattered all over the passenger side of the engine compartment, is this stuff corrosive? Seeing the lack of pride in the techs work habits with the DEF all over, now I'm apprehensive about what I can't see for hidden damage. It makes one sick to pay top $$ and get screwed. The regular service, rotate the tires and change the poly-v belt, combined with the DEF tank fiasco, came to $1905!! We're thinking about changing brands and see what vans are out there.

Yes, the service writer got told about this when my wife got home with the van. Shouldn't the service writer make sure the vehicle is presentable to the customer prior to releasing it to the customer?


Steve

 

[Aggie]

BobLLL - you noted def drain hose - easy to drain. The drain hose should be easy to locate, presumably at bottom of tank ? I don’t remember seeing it even when I had the grey / fresh tanks removed. Can you give any additional identifier / location help ?

jdpartin - you noted accessing fresh water hose connection through passenger seat base. My van is a bit older than hours and thus maybe different - mine has two separate but connected fresh tanks, one located in the space below the passenger seat (above van floor) and the other below the floor. It was the hose between the tanks that I did my disconnect leaving the upper tank in place.
Thanks to both for sharing your experience.
Aggie

 

[BobLLL]

Aggie,
The drain hose is attached to the bottom of the tank. The other end is tucked up into a holder on the driver side of the tank. So it is hard to see until you are under the tank. Once you know where it is, you can find it by feel. Here are two views of the tank that might help.



In the above picture, 8 is the tank, 9 is the hose, 10 is the valve. The hose is just pushed into a recess in the tank to hold it up. Carefully pull it out. Also be careful opening the valve - it's the typical MB "you'll be sorry if you break this" sort of thing.

Bear in mind the stuff is corrosive. Eye protection and rubber gloves are needed.

 

[BobLLL]

Steve,
The level of "service" you received is really unacceptable. Cleaning the DEF injector isn't part of routine service, because the tank has to be removed. Even on a regular sprinter that is a fair amount of work. And spilled DEF is corrosive - you should get it washed off if you haven't already.

Maybe you should hop over to Sprinter-Forum > Dealer and Supplier List > Regional Locations > USA>California and look for a different service option near you.

 

[Inspector]

BobLLL, those are excellent pictures of the drain hose, I wish I had had that to show the tech who worked on the van. Trying to get all the spilled DEF,off the areas above the tanks that are hidden, any ideas?

Are the tanks held in place by brackets and self locking nuts? I can just see an air tool running the nuts up and putting excessive pressure on the tanks, is this correct?

Jdpartin, our Roadtrek is a 2011 M-B chassis and a 2012 Roadtrek model. Any suggestions are appreciated from everyone and I REALLY APPRECIATE the input, it just makes me sick that the dealer charges like they do and it turns into a nightmare.

Steve v

 

[BobLLL]

Steve,
I don't know exactly how the tank is held in place. There are some brackets under the the tank with bolts attaching to the body above. Probably all that stuff is fairly corrosion resistant. Go for a drive on a rainy day, I guess. I thought you were talking about spillage under the hood when they filled it. That's what happened to me, the dealer "tech" spilled def down the fill tube and on stuff below. That was the last time I let anyone beside myself fill the def.

I copied those pics from MB training documents I found online somewhere. If the tech hasn't been trained, why go to that dealer anyhow? Might as well go to the nearest "we fix anything" shop and show them the pictures, if you have to do the training. And there is the additional problem that when you mentioned cleaning the injector, instead of asking "why?", the service writer said "Ok fine. What's your credit card number?" It was a major violation of the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" rule.

 

[lindenengineering]

Reading this I have a few comments.

Yes if you have RV belly tanks for grey water storage etc, the techs at the MB dealers will not touch it, even to reaching up and pulling down the drain pipe etc.
We get a few from time to time to drop the tanks for ADblue heater replacement under warranty . The instruction is to drop it all, at the owners' cost, then transfer the rig back to the dealer for their warranty bit!
Then it comes back and the belly tanks go back in.
Total cost is $850 for tanks drop & re-fit.

Now spills can cleaned up i perfectly achieved with a shop hose and water, dried with compressed air.

The injector narrative has got me puzzled.
That is sited in the bazooka tube sited at the front near that U tube support bracket in the picture. (bottom left extreme corner )
With only an allen key, the bolted clamp it easily to remove for visual DEF injector examination and the measure delivery quantity in Milliliters with a burete all with scan tool commands .
Sounds like something went totally sideways,
Dennis

 

[BobLLL]

Somehow they interpreted Steve's request as "check and clean everything including the tank and its contents?" Or they didn't actually know where the injector is?

 

[Aggie]

BobLLL. - Thanks for the pictures and information on the def drain tune. Yes, I looked and found it - all considered - easy to access. I would have assumed the tube went into and beyond at the top. I was able to pull it down but didn’t drain as thats a project for another day.

My first few years of ownership I used to do annual cross country high mileage trips using and refreshing my def. I’ve since moved to the ”other side”, drive much less. Based on some opinions in this forum I think a drain/ refresh every couple of years would be cheap insurance.
I believe the Roadtrek RV Sprinters (maybe all or others too) have much larger def tanks than standard vehicles so the gallon or two I add annually now only partially refreshes the contents. Thanks again !