2008 Sprinter using oil and no power

[Photogdave]

Well have you had them professionally tested by a Bosch FIE agent?
Dennis

no I haven’t. I called one place and it was $300 plus shipping just to check them
I can get all 6 brand new for $1700
But rather than do that I though it through.
Three of mine still have fresh anti seize on them. So that tells me at most they’re a year or so old. So they should be ok.
Left me with the other three
I found guy on eBay that had some pretty clean one last with 180k from a parted out van that had been deemed not road worthy by state.
Bought 4 for $350
Figuring they should be fine.
If not I guess I can cross that bridge later
I’m already at $3500 on this build ??
So just curious if the tips can be cleaned here before install
Didn’t wanna take a wire brush to them and risk bad damage

 

[Photogdave]

I did just finish putting the additional 90° on the rods.
My torque wrench said the final torque with that 90 was in 74nm range. Up and down a few .xx here and there

 

[lindenengineering]

Well just a word of caution on injectors.
On a rebuild the mantra is to get them checked or simply replace them.
A faulty injector can wreck all the hard work.
Judgement call here.
Dennis

 

[Photogdave]

Well just a word of caution on injectors.
On a rebuild the mantra is to get them checked or simply replace them.
A faulty injector can wreck all the hard work.
Judgement call here.
Dennis

I see. I was on the thinking of replacing all of them.
And then just the budget
I guess I can always make the final call once I need to install them

I seriously need WIS LOL. like the timing marks, Alldata is useless
There’s a mark on oil pump gear. Does it matter or not?
The copper links in the chain. What do they line up with?
So many things I need WIS for. There’s just not enough info on Alldata and what is there, is it right or wrong? LOL

 

[showkey]

I see. I was on the thinking of replacing all of them.
And then just the budget
I guess I can always make the final call once I need to install them

I seriously need WIS LOL. like the timing marks, Alldata is useless
There’s a mark on oil pump gear. Does it matter or not?
The copper links in the chain. What do they line up with?
So many things I need WIS for. There’s just not enough info on Alldata and what is there, is it right or wrong? LOL

Back to the first page ...........it’s that where to start and where to stop question.......never easy, a real slippery slope

WIS is available on several places ( ebay) where it’s loaded on lap top and runs as a windows virtual machine. $10-$30 .......i

 

[220817a]

I see. I was on the thinking of replacing all of them.
And then just the budget
I guess I can always make the final call once I need to install them

I seriously need WIS LOL. like the timing marks, Alldata is useless
There’s a mark on oil pump gear. Does it matter or not?
The copper links in the chain. What do they line up with?
So many things I need WIS for. There’s just not enough info on Alldata and what is there, is it right or wrong? LOL

The hard drive that I told to buy has 2019 Xentry/DAS, Vediamo, DTC Manaco, EPC, WIS, PL. I also have a 2018 stand alone version of EPC/WIS on 4 DVDs that I can give you along with a key generator for it... But like I told you, some of the WIS is in German.

 

[Photogdave]

The hard drive that I told to buy has 2019 Xentry/DAS, Vediamo, DTC Manaco, EPC, WIS, PL. I also have a 2018 stand alone version of EPC/WIS on 4 DVDs that I can give you along with a key generator for it... But like I told, some of the WIS is in German.

That would be great. At least I would have some valid information to go with instead of wondering later if it was correct

 

[lindenengineering]

Just as a comment its fairly straightforward valve timing procedures for a DOHC V engines.
I hope you are going to use a new timing chain because that is where the problems start.
Dennis

 

[Photogdave]

Just as a comment its fairly straightforward for DOHC V engines.
I hope you are going to use a new timing chain because that is where the problems start.
Dennis

??, of course new chain. All new guides and tensioner as well.
The current chain is assembled so I didn’t have to purchase the chain break tool
Just the hold down tool for camshafts
I know the copper links do not matter as long as the cam marks are aligned correctly and balance shaft is in correct position, and all the slack on the tensioner side
But I know the copper links are there to line up in place as a reassurance. So I’d like to get that right as well
But I have no information as to where they go.
There is one section that has 3 copper links together
Then there’s a single copper link in other places
I know the hole in the chain rollers face up

I had to order another oil pump chain this morning. The new one I purchased came unassembled which would require a chain riveting tool.
So I purchased another one from another company that appears to be assembled. Figure it’s cheaper to buy another chain then it is to buy $150 chain tool that I’ll only use one time.

 

[lindenengineering]

OK Good.
Since you are promised a shop system DVD then you should be good to go ahead and time it once received.
All the best
Dennis

 

[Photogdave]

OK Good.
Since you are promised a shop system DVD then you should be good to go ahead and time it once received.
All the best
Dennis

Yes. Very thankful for this forum. A lot of information on here and very helpful people. Met Dima the other day. Very nice guy and extremely helpful.
hopefully with the help I’ve received here I can get on with this and be finished once and for all.
I’m ready to take a break from it mentally. I’m absolutely exhausted mentally because of this thing.

 

[Photogdave]

OK ready?
1st stage Crank Caps Initial 35Nm
2nd stage 95 degrees
3rd stage 95 degrees
Block girdle 53Nm

Rods /Big Ends
Short arm 15 Nm
Long Arm 20 Nm
Short Arm 30 Nm
Long arm 40 Nm
Short Arm 40 Nm Plus 90 degrees
Long arm plus 90 degrees
Short Arm plus 90 degrees
Long arm plus yet another 90 degrees .
Suggest you paint and mark long arms & short arms also & get an assistant to verify & note which ones have got torqued
You can easily mix this up and have a rod under torqued
Best of luck
Dennis

man im about to scream!!!!
So I found some paperwork from WIS that I had a friend print off for me that works at the Mercedes plant before I ever tore this thing down.
Forgot I had it
I do see 4th 90°on the rods there too. So Alldata said 2-90°s....there was an additional 2.
Gonna do that tomorrow.
But now I see I missed the 3rd - 90° On the head bolts.
Alldata only had only 2 listed.
I guess it’s ok on head bolts to add another 90° a week later after original torque ?.
I’ve never had to do this. Always just did it first time and done.
I don’t see anything about oil for bolts on “yes or no” in this paper.
It just says, “install left cylinder head” ?
This engine is gonna kill me.
Dennis it also says in here...“generally connecting rods are replaced because they are cracked and after removal dimensional accuracy can’t be guaranteed.
So that’s just great.
Guess I’ll be gambling on this. I mean the new ones also have to be opened to get them on, so....
I was very careful on the fit of the caps insuring the part line vanished upon seating caps and torquing.
Also on inspection prior to plastiguage, I could seat the caps with fingers and they would actually stick together like glue. Had to actually pull apart with force. Which is the intention.
So fingers crossed It doesn’t result as you say, “legs out of bed”

 

[lindenengineering]

Yes. Very thankful for this forum. A lot of information on here and very helpful people. Met Dima the other day. Very nice guy and extremely helpful.
hopefully with the help I’ve received here I can get on with this and be finished once and for all.
I’m ready to take a break from it mentally. I’m absolutely exhausted mentally because of this thing.

Well I won't say we do it daily but engines like this get re-built in our shop almost weekly.
We have spate of Pentastar 3,6 's at the moment and a few Landrover Ford AJ 5 litre supercharged in Range Rover as well.
For me this MB engine is fairly straightforward, so do a few and it will all come second nature .
Dennis

 

[Photogdave]

Another update:
Has some minor delays, Dima helped me out and saved the day. With some info he sent me from WIS, I discovered the right camshaft was timed 180° out from left side when at TDC.
Alldata is useless.
GIad I caught this before installing engine, it was some extra work this morning removing the valve cover and walking cams back around but way easier than doing it in vehicle.
I knew I should have went with my gut on #1 position, but Alldata threw me off.
In their data, they depict the intake cam position with drawing and bolts in one position.
But the cam lobs for intake at this position would be starting intake stroke. They should have just finished closing at TDC, but I ignored my gut. I assembled it wrong
So this update is info for the next person doing this job.
Set crank to TDC
The right side bank(#1), intake cam should have guide pin in gear at 12pm position, two bolts on gear up top, the third at bottom inaccessible.
Dots on gear should be online with head and touching each other where gears mesh.
So dots at 9 and 3 both intake and exhaust, dots meshing with gears.
Same for left side, guide pin at 12pm.
I was set to start dressing the engine with sensors and harness etc but daughter got in her first fender bender today. Very minor but it derailed assembly for the day.
Shooting for the weekend to be running
So long as i dont run into to anymore part needs to delay me.

 

[manwithgun]

We're all rooting for you, whether posting to the thread or not. I'm sure you're aware of this, but your injectors have a designated cylinder position based on how they were initialized to your ECU. Some people have posted that it's not necessary when changing a single injector, but most of us have discovered that when installing 3 or more without initializing, the ECU will not build rail pressure or start. If for some reason you've lost track, at the very least, record the injector ID# based on cylinder position for possible later use. A simple AP200 scanner will display which injector should be in which cylinder, but you'll need something more savvy to teach in new injectors.

Scanner to read Injector coding?

I've just re-fitted 2 of the injectors on my 2013 Sprinter, as they were leaking quite badly. In my inexperience, I numbered them with a permanent marker pen which then immediately washed off when I started cleaning them :( I'm 75% sure I've refitted them back in the right cylinders, but I...

sprinter-source.com

 

[Photogdave]

We're all rooting for you, whether posting to the thread or not. I'm sure you're aware of this, but your injectors have a designated cylinder position based on how they were initialized to your ECU. Some people have posted that it's not necessary when changing a single injector, but most of us have discovered that when installing 3 or more without initializing, the ECU will not build rail pressure or start. If for some reason you've lost track, at the very least, record the injector ID# based on cylinder position for possible later use. A simple AP200 scanner will display which injector should be in which cylinder, but you'll need something more savvy to teach in new injectors.

Scanner to read Injector coding?

I've just re-fitted 2 of the injectors on my 2013 Sprinter, as they were leaking quite badly. In my inexperience, I numbered them with a permanent marker pen which then immediately washed off when I started cleaning them :( I'm 75% sure I've refitted them back in the right cylinders, but I...

sprinter-source.com

Thank you.
Yes I have them marked
But will be replacing 3 or 4 so I definitely will need to recode them.

 

[Photogdave]

Ok, so update as promised
Tonight I drove the vehicle for the first time.
So far no leaks or noise. Haven’t seen any smoke. But truth is I’ve only driven 3 miles yet.
A lot can still go wrong.
I just put the front end on enough to take it down the road.
So this hasn’t gone without any hiccup...
I had a transgo shift kit installed along with new conductor plate by a transmission shop while I waited on some engine parts and new torque converter to come in.
Yesterday after engine was installed and I was ready to spin it over, I had no starter. No starter signal.
After 4-6 hours of diagnostic time, using Xentry I discovered i believe something went wrong with conductor plate install.
In Xentry, it showed vehicle was in park but contact for starter cut was closed.
And it wouldn’t open in P N
Cluster and shifter along with EGS shows correct gear, but starter cut wouldn’t open
After many hours I discovered for a brief second and about 2mm between R and N the contact opens and as long as it registers N and open it finally started.
It ran rough a minute.
I’m assuming because it’s building compression and I reset adaptations.
I did program all injectors first.
After I drove it down the road and back it’s now running better and idling much smoother.
Seems to pull good, haven’t pressured it too much. Just smooth loads and decel
Tomorrow I will finish buttoning up front end permanently.
After some driving and trust I will venture out and drive it to trans shop to let him look into why it’s having this problem.
He’s 50 min away.
After I drive it and it’s warm it starts as it should.
Very strange.
I’ll report back on longer drive.
But so far so good ????
No leaks or knocks or smoke.
You guys pray to engine gods for me to keep having good progress.
I need it for my mental state.
If something goes wrong, you’ll find it off the side of Mobile Bridge

 

[Photogdave]

Also, I’d like to say, I’ve met some great people in here.
Forums can be tricky, if you’ve ever been in a few you know what I mean.
If spoken with Dennis and he’s awesome.
I could talk hours woth
And Dima74 has been unreal.
In a strange sort of luck he reached out to me with some software help way back when I began this journey, back in Feb.
We messaged a few times and then spoke on the phone.
Turns out in a strange turn of events, he’s drives almost daily 20 min north of my house. Imagine that. The luck and coincidence.
He has met me once before and then came to my house today to help with Xentry.
He’s as good as they come guys and very knowledgeable.
If he gives advice I’d say take it. Very kind man. And a man of his word.
With older more simple vehicles forums aren’t as big. Not for me anyway.
But the more complicated they become like Mercedes, these forums almost become a necessity!!!!
Many heads coming together to defeat a corporate giant and their monopolous ways.
I’ve learned a lot through this.
I’ve built many engines, was a technician my whole life and I know you can always learn more.
I learned a lot on this job.
It has tested my mental stability
Tested my marriage ???
I’m happy to share what I learned if anyone needs help
First advice, probably don’t paint the things I painted.
Looks good on the stand
In van, meh, barely see it.
I enjoyed it but it’s a waste of time honestly.

 

[irvingj]

Have followed your saga with interest. I would never attempt such a major tear-down! I've been a tech, too, but now in my 70s I just don't have the confidence I used to, so I've been living vicariously through your efforts.

All I can say is BRAVO! and I certainly hope you're all done! (And yes, you're right, with vehicles as complicated as these beastly Sprinters, this forum and the folks in it that offer their expertise is a godsend.)

 

[Photogdave]

Have followed your saga with interest. I would never attempt such a major tear-down! I've been a tech, too, but now in my 70s I just don't have the confidence I used to, so I've been living vicariously through your efforts.

well I appreciate it.
I have to admit, I know what you mean about the confidence. I’m now 40 and the last engine I built would have been around 2004 I believe. At which time I threw in the wrenches and gave up the profession and went to work at the Mercedes Plant. The lack of confidence on my end came from the lack of information I knew I was about to encounter.
Mercedes has always been very tight lipped about it.
Once their nonsense was off the engine, it really wasn’t much different than any other v-6 aside from 6 bolt mains.
And I was taught early as a young tech, “A man built it, a man can fix it”
I truly believe that and that drives me.
I almost gave up a couple times when things go crazy. Just lack of info I needed.
You know it’s amazing what you’ll do when backed in to a corner.
I passed up 3 deals similar to this one that all advertised bad engines. Thinking hell no I don’t wanna go there.
And then here I was, I was there. A $6500 paper weight. It was either sell it and lose $4000, or spend $4000 and try to gain what I bought it for in the first place.
I couldn’t afford to pay a shop for this repair. I knew that.
And quite frankly I’m not very good at allowing others to repair my things, I’m very picky.