LTV schematics and parts store

RV2019

2017 Wonder MB
I have been conversing with SSTraveler about LTV and the subject of schematics came up. She wondered why all of this information was not available at MyLTV for owners. It would be for their coach (at least versions if schematics changed during model year production). And why can't they have an online store for parts instead of having to call. I've wondered the same thing especially having gone through getting a window seal recently.

Anyway, I talked to Willie this afternoon and asked these 2 questions toward the end of our call. He said he had suggested this a long time ago but it never got approved. He asked me to send an email requesting or asking about these possibilities. Something he could forward from a customer. So I thought if a few people sent emails he could forward, it might be better than 1 request. I will not post Willie's email but you could send it here (info@tripleerv.com) asking it to be forwarded to Willie if you don't already have his email.
 

TampaSteve

2018/2019 Unity CB
They'd have to have a real sea change which I'm not seeing happening. I'm in charge of IT at a technology company, so I notice how different companies use technology, and I feel safe in saying all of LTV is run on index cards and notebooks, with a spreadsheet here and there. Their web site and everything they do online is about as old school as it gets. When my wife had a car built at an overseas factory they emailed us weekly with updates including even when it was on the ship and what day it would arrive. Compare that to the stark LTV ordering process. The order sheets don't even have customer email so there is know way they can contact you at all, instead relying on the dealer network which is even more stone age than they are.

It's not all bad, companies their size don't do a good job with technology anyway, but they are one of the few I have encountered who don't really try. They build pretty good products. Maybe because their user base is so old they don't think it matters, but I think the RV demographic is changing. They should get on the bandwagon with customer facing technology. I would have bought one a year earlier if I could have placed the order online and just picked it up at a chosen dealer.
 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
I agree, Leisure should be able to make diagrams/schematics available online just like Winnebago, you can get all manner of diagrams and schematics online, http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/Wiring.htm, and they actually have a section on Amazon for ordering their parts, https://www.amazon.com/slp/winnebago-rv-parts/64k9f29eb9g2796. Why can't Leisure do something similar? They came up with the "MyLTV" page which is really useless. The concept of having a year/model/Vin specific page for each owner would be cutting edge, Winnebago doesn't have, if they linked all the schematics/Diagrams/vendor/manufacturers information, tailored to the Owners vehicle. Then pair that with a parts store, so the Owner could easily go online figure out what they need, look up the part, and order it. If you look at the questions asked on this Forum and on the Leisure Facebook page you see a common thread around the right replacement parts and what or how something is installed. Leisure could probably generate the revenue to pay for the maintenance of this online system from the markup on parts alone. I wouldn't mind paying Leisure for an up charge if I know I'm getting the right part without having to spend my time figuring out if it's the right one. With Leisure having to reorganize their manpower to accommodate the Mercedes Sprinter Chassis delays this would be an optimal time to assign some of their personnel/resources to implementing a "My Leisure" page that is really useful and valuable to their owners. I have been putting off ordering some compartment door hinge material because I know I'll have to spend several days trying to connect with someone at Leisure to order it! I try to exhaust my online options before contacting Leisure because it is such a PITA and requires a lot of time. :yell:

We could also post it as a product implementation idea here, https://portal.productboard.com/tri...-customer-ideas/tabs/5-ideas-in-consideration.
 
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RV2019

2017 Wonder MB
I found out today that this post will be monitored by LTV. Please add your comments/suggestions regarding the topic. Lets keep our fingers crossed!
 

TheTraveller

UnityTB 2020
As a first step LTV could keep the current website up to date. I tried looking at the 2020 Unity owners manual a little while ago, only to find it exactly the same as the 2019 version. As an example it still refers to a 1000W pure sine wave inverter; if I'm not mistaken the 2020 models have all been upgraded to a 2000W inverter. I understand product quality is very good, but pre-sales and after-sales service is important as well.
If LTV is monitoring this post I hope they will take note and give the suggestions some real consideration.
 

TwoClinks

2016 Unity TB
Let me make this simply put.... I like LTV just the way it is. It's a home town company with real people with real families to feed. We do not need Jeff Bezos and Amazon to take over any fraction of LTV's business. LTV has a very small IT group. They were hack & held ransom. Losing everything from build orders to past customers to employee information.

Sell and go get yourselves a Winnebago and stay over on their forum. Let's see if a real person helps you when one of your cabinets falls off the wall. I wouldn't publish any close details or schematics that would help one more "copy cat" RV manufacturer build their own version of a LTV.

I hope LTV does monitor this forum. They need to hear that some of us are happy, loyal owners. So satisfied that they are 2nd & 3rd time returning customers.
 

RV2019

2017 Wonder MB
The publishing we are referring to would be behind the MyLTV website. One must be an LTV owner to register for and get access to the site. Details & schematics along with a parts store would help those of us who choose to work on and/or upgrade our RVs. I understand DIY isn't for everyone but for some of us, it's a hobby or necessity if a dealer is too far away, etc.

And just how is a schematic, parts list, parts store going to help a copy cat? Do you really think another company would use a wiring diagram and make a 100% copy?
 
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TwoClinks

2016 Unity TB
Yes... I believe there are advantages to using published details to reproduce someone design and function. The open & free USA has lost so much technology to foreign governments & companies. It is rumored that Airstream secretly purchased a Unity and reverse engineered it to build a Airstream Atlas with a few slight changes.

Wiring is not one of those components you can monkey with much. The precut and assembled wiring harness is nearly inaccessible. Hidden along the right side of the roof and wall and installed behind cabinets. That's why LTV will not make many options available. Go tour the factory and see how they build them. Then you will have a aw-ha moment.

You need to remember that the LTV factory family and management is primary Mennonite. They do not think or run their businesses the way you think they should. Their honest and hard working. Two or three generations cranking out our RVs in a steady, careful process. I know some of them personally. I have met their spouse and invited to their homes. One thing that surprised me is that they love to RV and travel but do not own a LTV RV. Why? Because they simply cannot afford one.

It's my opinion that your LTV is built and ready to go travel. If you want a hobby working on RVs, redo vintage trailers. I often see owners and forum members cry out for help because they can't leave things alone and cause themselves problems.

And just how is a schematic, parts list, parts store going to help a copy cat? Do you really think another company would use a wiring diagram and make a 100% copy?[/QUOTE]
 

SSTraveler

2014 LTV Unity Murphy Bed
If you look at the questions asked on this Forum and on the Leisure Facebook page you see a common thread around getting the correct replacement parts and what or how something is installed. Leisure could probably generate the revenue to pay for the maintenance of an online parts store from the markup on parts alone. I wouldn't mind paying Leisure an up charge if I know I'm getting the right part without having to spend my time figuring everything out. I have to do lots of research and then end up ordering from Amazon, because it's EASY. Why should Leisure allow Amazon to make the profit when they have the resources to make their own online parts store. With Leisure having to reorganize their manpower to accommodate the Mercedes Sprinter Chassis delays this would be an optimal time to assign some of their personnel/resources to implementing parts store and a "My LTV Page" that is really useful and valuable to their owners.  Leisure is missing a real opportunity to capitalize on their owner demographics in not realizing that they would be willing to pay a premium to have easy access to ordering the correct parts from an online store. Think of the time it would save for the busy employees who currently have to field customers calls and answer their questions or let them buy the parts from Leisure. Everything with Leisure is a manual transaction with just a few people, Brad, Darrell, Don, Willie. Think of the improvement it would make to customer relationships and customer satisfaction to be able to get easy access to parts/diagrams/schematics they need to maintain with their Leisure products. I have amassed an extensive Library to be able to maintain my Unity, thanks in part to this Unity Forum. I really feel sorry for the Serenity and Wonder owners, they don't have access to Forums as active/knowledgable as this Unity group. I can understand why we see so many none Unity owners on our section of this Forum. We also act as a great technical resource for Leisure Travel Van Company. We take some of the burden off Leisure! Should an excellent company expect a band of owners to form a collective of resources to repair/maintain their products or should they do it? I don't believe Leisure doesn't have the capability/resources to have an online parts store or Owners Section that includes access to diagrams/schematics. They should make the MyLTV page accomplish something truly valuable for owners, because you certainly can't count on their Dealers!
 

RV2019

2017 Wonder MB
TwoClinks,

I do understand your point about buying an LTV and copying it. But that could be done with or without schematics, etc and if those were accessed only by being an owner, then they could still be obtained if a competitor bought an LTV. For me, I wouldn't have needed the schematics if the solar negative/ground wire had been in the battery bay. I had to hunt for it. And I'm thinking about adding a ToGo. To do that I need power on the roof and found out that there is power for a satellite dish up there. I don't have one of those so I could use that power wire. But I'd need to know where the power wire can be found in the coach so I can add a switch (like would be used on the sat dish). I have found both on the schematics but haven't looked to see if they are actually there yet. Not finding the solar wire in the battery bay or attached to the back of the battery/frame ground connection creates some doubt until I start looking.

So it isn't a hobby of renovating, it is a hobby of making the RV to our liking or installing better equipment. If LTV had installed solar panels that worked well, didn't degrade in 2 - 3 years, didn't burn the roof, didn't add heat to the coach, wired for efficiency (series), installed a better solar power management system, I wouldn't be making these changes. But the flex panels and GoPower controller are "builder" grade and do serve a purpose. Lightweight, provide some solar power, etc. Just not what I'd like to have after using the coach a while. Sort of like buying a house and it has builder grade appliances. The wife or chef will someday want that commercial gas stove or a convection oven or..... But they could make meals with what they had.
 

harrysalit

2019 Wonder FTB
RV2019, in my FTB there are 2 pre wired power lines for sat dish, they go to the entertainment center panel. Many wires bundled up behind that panel. My Winegard Traveler Dish needs 5 power wires, so I had to open the ceiling up and run my own wires! So much for Pre wired, but not for all sat dishes! There are also some coax cables going to another roof plate.
 

TampaSteve

2018/2019 Unity CB
I've owned my RV for 18 months, and I haven't really seen any proprietary intellectual property or trade secrets. It uses standard off the shelf components and has no software programming that I can see. Their success lies in quality, styling, and floorplans (and also throw in a little bump in popularity and mystique due to its general unavailability).

There wouldn't be anything for LTV to lose by publishing schematics and diagrams. A battery cable lug or a bus bar is hardly a proprietary trade secret, although auto makers constantly try to claim that it is.

I agree that at a minimum LTV should publish an online parts store for owners and of course the diagrams and schematics to support that.

They should look at it this way. Right now I can think of several parts in my RV I would probably replace if they were online, but I can't be bothered to locate somebody by phone and spend time trying to explain what I need, so I usually try to repair or refinish instead.
 

TwoClinks

2016 Unity TB
TampaSteve,

Have you toured the LTV manufacturing plant? If not, you may never understand why things aren't the way you think they should be. MyLTV is understaffed and cannot keep up with the chapters. It's a small town with industries that compete with the lack of help and technology based skills. A lot of employees wear multiple hats. Willie, Brad, and most others have phones that never stop ringing. It's said that 10% of the new owners use up 90% of their time because they need to be spoon fed operating instructions and basic RV knowledge. Information they were given and didn't read or failed to go online to find. During my time of ownership, LTV has always lagged in published information of new changes and new models. They're RVs are ever changing and evolving. Sometimes due to circumstances beyond they're control. Back in 2015 & 2016 owners ordered and expected their RV built as they knew it and were surprise when delivered something different. As a manager of a technology company, you should understand the theft of intellectual property. Take a few minuets and look at the Airstream Atlas. LTV was hacked and suffered from ransomware recently. Information was lost and deliveries delayed. As I understand they didn't pay up. And that you can understand.
 
"It's said that 10% of the new owners use up 90% of their (Brad and his team's) time"

So what do you propose as a solution? They can either stop taking these customer calls which in effect would end customer support. And basically this is exactly what is happening now a little at a time.

Or they can come up with some automated solution that would cut down these calls. If this new system is efficient and easy to use, then it would effectively cut down 90% of Brad and his teams workload to help make a better product. I would think this would make both LTV employees and customers happier.


2014 UMB 2013 Sprinter 3500
 

msmolow

2019 Unity CB / 2018 Chas
I think TwoClinks is right. I've been to a couple of regional LTV rallies. Wonderful people, but many have no basic maintenance skills, not the inclination to learn. The members of this forum are the opposite. Spend some time reading the Facebook LTV posts and I think you'll get a better sense of many LTV owners approach to problem solving (or lack thereof).
 

TwoClinks

2016 Unity TB
I suggest everyone take a deep breath and wait your turn to be helped on the phone. If not, figure it out yourself. Here's an opportunity for some of you to create your own small company to consult owners that want modifications done and you can also sell them the parts to do it. $$ LTV is in the business of building RVs. They do a good job at that. And likely really don't want to get involved in anything but the warrantee issues they must take care of. I 'am guessing that's why they charge a hefty sum to try an discourage your notions otherwise. Someday they may stop all the contests, factory rallies, MyLTV, and owner / chapter support and free their selves from the headaches and distractions.

When I was up in Winkler this fall, I was looking at the idea of up-fitting older Unities with new chassis. Some want the latest bells and whistles and are willing to take big losses selling and trading to get the new MB. Their coach will fit all the frame holes on the latest MB. There is money to be made from the full, deep pockets of baby boomers who can't remain happy with the LTV they presently own. I own a nearly stock 2016 UTB. The more I use it, the more I like it just the way it was built and delivered to me.
 

RV2019

2017 Wonder MB
If people don't have basic maintenance skills nor an inclination to learn, I don't know why they would be posting on FB. What are they going to do with the info?

And those facebook posts - how many people don't post but read them and learn? There may be quite a few posts as you describe but how many owners actually do their own work. That can't be measured. One can not assume if they did then they would be part of this forum. They may not do computers, may not do forums, may not know this forum exists. It's like reviews of a product (such as on Amazon). A lot of reviews aren't verified purchases and then there are a lot of negative reviews. If someone loves a product they don't necessary review it but if there is a problem they will speak up. Some FB posts are from individuals that haven't read a manual and probably never will, and some I'm sure were ones whose eyes glazed over while listening to the salesman explain things in an hour or so and that's also if the salesman knew what he was talking about. If all of the FB folks would come here, they could find answers because this forum is easy to search compared to FB. So, if there was a LTV video explaining all of the systems, how they work, etc even an hour or so long, salesmen could still do their demo but also point them to My LTV page which would have a video on what they covered to review later after the excitement of purchasing wears off. Win Win. And then also have details, schematics, wiring codes, etc available along with a parts store. Even if they didn't actually do the work themselves they could see the parts & prices if interested.

FB does have posts of what people have upgraded or fixed (just like here) so what percentage would you say ask for how to operate something vs telling what they've done? Please ignore those posts where a question is asked about an LTV and someone replies they don't have that problem with their XXX. Or some other stupid answer. If everything on my LTV is working so I don't have to repair and I have no inclination of upgrading a component then I wouldn't post. You're seeing posts from those with issues or didn't RTFM or didn't listen to the salesman's overview or were simply overwhelmed at the time of purchase. I'm sure most just think of these as cars on wheels with a bed, TV, kitchen & bath without realizing all of these components are like a house and need fixing or upgrading at one time or another.

One is never too old to learn. Seems like if someone could fix something in a few minutes or maybe a couple hours it would be better than calling a dealer and getting on the schedule for possibly taking a look at it in 3 - 12 weeks. And then being charged multiple hours of labor to fix a minor issue. To me this just seems like time, effort and $ wasted. But I do know some people don't want to know how or care to try themselves. But to me learning about the problems and how to fix is part of life and continued education.
 

TwoClinks

2016 Unity TB
I guess it's time to bow out of this post. You struck a nerve when you and others started bashing LTV without knowing the facts. I can't automate LTV's ownership support and create the parts store you want. I doubt LTV will either. Good Luck
 

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