Stuck woodruff key

albertosalinas

Active member
So after reading through a bunch of posts about replacing harmonic balancers, I couldn’t find the answer I was looking for. I am in the middle of replacing my harmonic balancer and the key just seems stuck in place. Is it supposed to be hard to take this key out? I dont want to ruin anything but can I lift the key by the lip showing and yank it out?
 

Attachments

220629

Well-known member
Fortunately I've not had any experience with this. From what I recall...

It is not a flat key and will not just pull out.

The key is to index the Harmonic Balancer HB to the proper shaft position. After the one time use bolt is properly torqued into position, the key is no longer needed. Some have fabricated a DIY 1/2 key. I believe that there is a commercially available 1/2 key, or that a full key can be reduced in size.

Sorry I can't offer more.

:cheers: vic
 

99sport

Well-known member
It sure doesn't look removable based on the geometry in the picture (its trapped by the timing chain sprocket). Why do you want to remove it? Why not reuse it since it looks good and put the new damper over it?
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
It sure doesn't look removable based on the geometry in the picture (its trapped by the timing chain sprocket). Why do you want to remove it? Why not reuse it since it looks good and put the new damper over it?
For info!
Its not removable by virtue of locating the timing gear sprocket.
You would have to do a semi tear-down actually remove it!

Question? WHY do you want to remove it ?
Question #2? In what purpose (in your estimation/understanding) does the key perform in this application when taking into account the position of the crankshaft pulley ?
Dennis
 

99sport

Well-known member
For info!
Its not removable by virtue of locating the timing gear sprocket.
You would have to do a semi tear-down actually remove it!

Question? WHY do you want to remove it ?
Question #2? In what purpose (in your estimation/understanding) does the key perform in this application when taking into account the position of the crankshaft pulley ?
Dennis
Dennis, did you mean why would clocking matter, or what feature carries the torque and prevents the damper from rotating with respect to the crank?

On most spark ignition engines the ignition timing scale is on the damper and correct clocking of the damper is needed to set the timing properly. Also some engines (SOME Ford Windsor V8s) are externally balanced and thus damper clocking matters. Other than those 2 reasons (presumably not applicable to a sprinter), the clocking should not matter.

(Maybe I'm showing my age, my cars have adjustable ignition timing via rotating the distributor)
 
Last edited:

albertosalinas

Active member
I thought that when replacing the harmonic balancer you also have to replace ther woodruff key, Is this not the normal
practice?
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
From past posts I believe there was a 'Design Modification' to the crank nose at some point during the production run of these engines.

This involved changing from one long single key under the timing gear and crank pulley, as your photo shows, to two short individual keys.

IIRC there was also a change to the bolt and securing washer at the same time and from memory THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE!. A change of tightening procedure and/or torque may also have accompanied the change.

You obviously have the long single key so cannot remove it without dismantling the timing chain as Dennis has stated.

Keith.
 
Last edited:

lindenengineering

Well-known member
The crank in 2005/2006 was modified to accept TWO keys, the bolt and cone were changed as well, according to the bulletin I have which is scant on actual details.

Remember the crank pulley key slot is marginal to prevent potential stress cracking of the crankshaft at the #1 web. (due to 5 cylinder crank stress.)

By virtue of its form, the strip key is only about 1/8" or 3 mm thick and about 4 to 5 mill wide so its hardly any good for taking a torsional load subjected by the crank pulley driving the accessory equation hanging in the front of the engine . Obviously if the pulley comes loose its inevitably torn off the crank and mashed up in the key slot!
Theoretically you could simply put the pulley back on without the key and tighten it down correctly and it would work.!
BUT
You need to have the pulley located correctly on the crank for timing purposes, and probably more important is the balance and phasing of the crank pulley/harmonic balancer arr.
(MB calls it a shock absorber by the way) .
So enough of debate & theory the question arises how to fix it without tearing it down some more (tedious task)

Traditionally I have simply purchased a key from MB parts and glued it into the open slot using Vic's favorite --JB WELD!---:smilewink: using a some duct tape to hold it there until dry.

Now the other method I have used is again simple.
Obtain a new strip key arr' and cut it to fit into the vacant key slot and be long enough to stretch all the way back to the timing sprocket . Using JB gobwhack and duct tape recreate the original strip key when it was first installed & let it dry.

Now caution!
Its very easy to dislodge your "field fix" and end up like Mr Bean doing a jumping cussing fit!
Besides it can fall into the sump, and then its a fishing exercise.
So!
Take a file to the inside edge of the key slot in the harmonic balancer and file out about an 1/8 " metal on all three sides creating an 1/8 x1/8 (3mm x 3mm ramp).
Then you can carefully offer the pulley /balancer arr, without undue risk of dislodging the key or repair section .
Once offered up use the new crank bolt and washer to force/press the arrangement home and snug it up.
Then its Big Mamu time , lock the crank and tighten the bolt to 240 lbs ft ft PLUS 80 degrees angle stretch tightening. (heaven knows what is that final torque) .

As a footnote I have tended to follow the cut strip key technique for a field fix which so far after about 2 years of service duration been a 100 % success.
All the best
Dennis
p.s
For those with a tram lined crank stub having suffered some wear use Loctite Assembly Liquid.
Just remember this is almost a "final fix" so it will be a devil's task to remove the crank pulley again.
D
 

albertosalinas

Active member
From past posts I believe there was a 'Design Modification' to the crank nose at some point during the production run of these engines.

This involved changing from one long single key under the timing gear and crank pulley, as your photo shows, to two short individual keys.

IIRC there was also a change to the bolt and securing washer at the same time and from memory THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE!. A change of tightening procedure and/or torque may also have accompanied the change.

You obviously have the long single key so cannot remove it without dismantling the timing chain as Dennis has stated.

Keith.
Ok gotcha, so the key that came with the harmonic balancer is for those 2004-2006 vans and not my 2003. Judging by the picture, its looks to be in good condition, so I can put the new harmonic balancer on with a new washer and nut and be done, correct?

Thanks everyone for providing very insightful information, I knew I could count on you guys.
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
Ok gotcha, so the key that came with the harmonic balancer is for those 2004-2006 vans and not my 2003. Judging by the picture, its looks to be in good condition, so I can put the new harmonic balancer on with a new washer and nut and be done, correct?

Thanks everyone for providing very insightful information, I knew I could count on you guys.
But make sure your new bolt and washer are an EXACT match for those you removed, I believe they changed with the key change so you MAY have the wrong ones as you have the wrong key.

You really need to order these parts by VIN and not by year.

Keith.
 

hein6466

New member
A new bolt AND crush washer are needed when the pulley is refitted. No loctite threadlocker, just tons of torque! The washer crushes slightly and locks the job.
 

jackbombay

2003 158" shc
lock the crank and tighten the bolt to 240 lbs ft ft PLUS 80 degrees angle stretch tightening.
I thought it was an additional 90˚ of after the 240 lbs ft?

Thats what I did.

I used a persuader so long it barely fit under my hood, and I couldn't get the last 10˚, so I was going to remove my hood to be able to use a longer pipe on my breaker bar, but a buddy showed up just then and with both of us pushing/pulling on the pipe that fit under the hood we got the last 10˚.
 

Top Bottom