2003 Sprinter Wont Start

Was going down the road and started losing power and the engine quit.

I next changed the crankcase position sensor, still no start.

I next changed the camshaft position sensor, still no start.

I pulled all the fuses in the truck and all were good.
If it lost the crankshaft position sensor, the camshaft position sensor, and/or a fuse, it would not have lost power BEFORE stalling.
 

Bobnoxious

GONE FISHING
GT is just trying to get a rise out folks, and possibly make himself feel better/superior, while simultaneously feeding a deep seated need for attention. Add him to your ignore list and don't provide food for the troll.
I do not possess a degree in psychology. However, psychology is always been a fascinating subject. Especially while dealing with manipulative and predatory criminals. I guess you could say I've studied with the best. The classroom, prison housing unit, professors, inmates.

Anyway, the behavior is called "Triggering" and feeding "Narcissistic supply" all symptoms enumerated in the DSM-5 and consistent with narcissistic personality disorder. Most of the population exhibit some symptoms. Some more than others because it's a spectrum disorder. In my humble opinion, I am a five, and any person above five, lack introspection, and will vehemently refuse to acknowledge any possibility of them being a narcissist. I could continue, but I think made my point.

Yeah, the ignore list. Personally, I enjoy all contributions regardless how ridiculous, and fairly easy to weed through them.

Kinda of ironic considering my proclivity toward trolling.

I'll try an experiment:

Hey! TGT! According to the DSM-5, Do you believe you are a malignant narcissist?
 
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Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
What is the fuel pressure when cranking? It should be at least 3,000 psi. What is the RPM on the live data show when cranking? It should be at least 220rpm.
:thumbup:
Reflect on how the van acted leading up to the stall.
Did it stumble? Cut out all at once? Lack top end? Lack torque?

Going on the hypotheses that the fuel filter was clogged or allowing air into the system, these live data values will be very informative. If the rail pressure is low during cranking, it’s possible (likely?) you’re still dealing with air in or entering the fuel system. A reading of a few hundred psi indicates a lack of LP Fuel Pump pressure. Hopefully just a priming issue, could be a pump failure.

You can crack open the #5 injector fuel line collar 1/4 turn then crank. This will ease back pressure and help priming, and allow you to confirm that fuel is reaching the back end of the rail. If you lack tools you can still unplug the fuel rail pressure relief solenoid valve at the back of the fuel rail. This will prevent it closing, which also helps it release any air during cranking, but you won’t be able to see/confirm fuel or air bubbles escaping. The engine will not build rail pressure so will not fire up in either case.

If you don’t get fuel from the #5 collar fitting, you’ll need to work your way back towards the fuel tank until you find the issue. The fuel system is under pressure only downstream of the LP Fuel pump. Everything upstream of that is under vacuum and NOTORIOUS for sucking in air at any weak point: loose clamps, improper “worm” style hose clamps (you only want to see the smooth, overlapping style with a screw and nut on one side), loose or over-tight water drain on the filter, loose or pinched o-ring on filter return bypass (preheat) fitting, cracked fuel line from the tank, bad o-ring on one or more clear-line fittings. The system relies on the LP Fuel Pump’s self-prime ability, which can weakens over time as the valves and seals age... it’s truly a wonder it ever worked?
(from 2004 on MB used an in-tank pump to pressurize everything, including the filtration, which also primes the full system while you’re waiting for glow plugs to pre-heat. A far more robust system...)

If you ARE getting fuel but not building sufficient fuel rail pressure, you need to look for leaks at the restriction points: the injector return flows and the pressure relief solenoid valve at the back of the rail. The amount of fuel passing these can be measured with the appropriate “leak off” tests. Failure (excessive return flow) indicates a worn out injector, or inoperative relief valve.
The valve requires power to close, so this can be a valve, harness, or ECU fault. Note that a very leaky component can mask other less leaky but still worn out components.

Let future readers know what you find,

-dave
 
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Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
The sprinters fuel injection system needs the following before it will inject fuel

Good cam sensor signal
Good crank sensor signal
fuel pressure of at least (3500?) PSI

If you have those things, it should at least try to inject fuel. All of these can be checked via scanner live data. The cam sensor is going to be shown under a cam/crank sync field (yes/no) Note that some aftermarket (non OE or OEM) sensors for crank/cam can be quite flaky.
 

Bobnoxious

GONE FISHING
Back to topic:

When it comes to electronics components, concerns stemming from counterfeiting and poor quality, some of the most experienced forum Sprinter Savants advocate the purchase of genuine Mercedes-Benz.

Counterfeiting is a global scourge, and anyone to believe otherwise is frankly, just plain naïve. Counterfeiting is one subject Trump is fighting for, forcing the Chinese to stop flooding the American market with counterfeit whatever.

Since you have no money, do inspections that don't cost any money. That's what I had to do most of my life.

Start at the beginning:

Battery and grounds. Sprinters like to be fed good healthy electrons.

https://www.mbwholesaleparts.com/content/dam/microsites/mb-wholesale-parts/pdf/1306-mbst-Battery.pdf

https://www.mbwholesaleparts.com/co...holesale-parts/pdf/Connections-Come-First.pdf
 
They are aftermarket parts
Read Bob's post below.

It explains what I was talking about regarding "installing" additional problems.

Back to topic:

When it comes to electronics components, concerns stemming from counterfeiting and poor quality, some of the most experienced forum Sprinter Savants advocate the purchase of genuine Mercedes-Benz.

Counterfeiting is a global scourge, and anyone to believe otherwise is frankly, just plain naïve. Counterfeiting is one subject Trump is fighting for, forcing the Chinese to stop flooding the American market with counterfeit whatever.
Yup.

Start at the beginning:
That's what I'm trying to get him to do... :thumbup:

He's not articulating a cranking concern- I already asked him.

If he's moving enough electrons to crank the engine over, then there should be enough left over to do the rest.
 
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Ring man

New member
:thumbup:
Reflect on how the van acted leading up to the stall.
Did it stumble? Cut out all at once? Lack top end? Lack torque?

Going on the hypotheses that the fuel filter was clogged or allowing air into the system, these live data values will be very informative. If the rail pressure is low during cranking, it’s possible (likely?) you’re still dealing with air in or entering the fuel system. A reading of a few hundred psi indicates a lack of LP Fuel Pump pressure. Hopefully just a priming issue, could be a pump failure.

You can crack open the #5 injector fuel line collar 1/4 turn then crank. This will ease back pressure and help priming, and allow you to confirm that fuel is reaching the back end of the rail. If you lack tools you can still unplug the fuel rail pressure relief solenoid valve at the back of the fuel rail. This will prevent it closing, which also helps it release any air during cranking, but you won’t be able to see/confirm fuel or air bubbles escaping. The engine will not build rail pressure so will not fire up in either case.

If you don’t get fuel from the #5 collar fitting, you’ll need to work your way back towards the fuel tank until you find the issue. The fuel system is under pressure only downstream of the LP Fuel pump. Everything upstream of that is under vacuum and NOTORIOUS for sucking in air at any weak point: loose clamps, improper “worm” style hose clamps (you only want to see the smooth, overlapping style with a screw and nut on one side), loose or over-tight water drain on the filter, loose or pinched o-ring on filter return bypass (preheat) fitting, cracked fuel line from the tank, bad o-ring on one or more clear-line fittings. The system relies on the LP Fuel Pump’s self-prime ability, which can weakens over time as the valves and seals age... it’s truly a wonder it ever worked?
(from 2004 on MB used an in-tank pump to pressurize everything, including the filtration, which also primes the full system while you’re waiting for glow plugs to pre-heat. A far more robust system...)

If you ARE getting fuel but not building sufficient fuel rail pressure, you need to look for leaks at the restriction points: the injector return flows and the pressure relief solenoid valve at the back of the rail. The amount of fuel passing these can be measured with the appropriate “leak off” tests. Failure (excessive return flow) indicates a worn out injector, or inoperative relief valve.
The valve requires power to close, so this can be a valve, harness, or ECU fault. Note that a very leaky component can mask other less leaky but still worn out components.

Let future readers know what you find,

-dave
Thanks Dave,

It just shut down going down the road, I will crack that fuel line now.
 

Ring man

New member
I cracked the fuel line at the injector with a clear hose filled with fuel above the LP pump and nothing came out.

I am thinking the pump is bad.
 

Ring man

New member
Your first post made it sound like the engine started losing power AND THEN stalled, but your last post makes it sound like it simply stalled while driving. Which is it?
It was hard to tell, my wife was driving and I wasn't paying attention, but she thinks it was loosing power because she kept down shifting.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
I cracked the fuel line at the injector with a clear hose filled with fuel above the LP pump and nothing came out.

I am thinking the pump is bad.
Sounding like it?
If the LP pump isn’t making pressure the HP pump won’t either.
(true for OM647 too)
You can confirm by disconnecting the line between the LP and HP pumps and see if it moves any fuel. Some report finding it helps to apply suction to the LP outlet (without cranking) until it achieves a clean prime, then connect it back to the HP pump.

It certainly could be a LP pump failure.
They can fail quickly or slowly... An electrical failure would usually be intermittent then a sudden stall.

-dave
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
You need at least 58psi on the low pressure side, or the HP pump won't produce any fuel. With the ignition on, the fuel pump in the tank will run for about 60 seconds. Put an ear to the tank, can you hear it running? If its really loud, or no noise at all, you may have a bad pump (blown fuse or relay are also options).
 
I cracked the fuel line at the injector with a clear hose filled with fuel above the LP pump and nothing came out.
...while the engine was being cranked over, right?

How much fuel was in the tank when it died? When did you last refuel? Did you buy fuel from the same place you always do? Do they sell a lot of diesel there? Does the vehicle sit a lot, or do you drive it every day?

Do you use a fuel additive to prevent algae? If so, how often have you been using it, and how often do you use it?
 
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Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
You need at least 58psi on the low pressure side, or the HP pump won't produce any fuel. 9b0With the ignition on, the fuel pump in the tank[/b] will run for about 60 seconds. Put an ear to the tank, can you hear it running? If its really loud, or no noise at all, you may have a bad pump (blown fuse or relay are also options).
But an '03 does not have an electric pump in the tank! It relies solely on the mechanical pump on the engine drawing fuel from the tank.

Can you see any signs of the pump drawing fuel in the clear lines by the pump?

Keith.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
2003 - so no electric tank pump. Just the priming nightmare that is the om612 LP Pump.
:thumbup:

-dave
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Your right, I got my threads crossed. You still need something like 15psi from the LP pump. No Electric pump on the 03.

The OM612 LP pumps are quite reliable, so I would guess you have an air leak somewhere.

Some folks report using a spare fuel cap to put about 1psi in the fuel tank is enough to overcome air leaks. Might be worth a try.
 

Ring man

New member
...while the engine was being cranked over, right?

How much fuel was in the tank when it died? When did you last refuel? Did you buy fuel from the same place you always do? Do they sell a lot of diesel there? Does the vehicle sit a lot, or do you drive it every day?

Do you use a fuel additive to prevent algae? If so, how often have you been using it, and how often do you use it?
There is a half a tank in it.

I buy Velero fuel, from the same place and they sell lots of it, I was putting 100 miles a day, it doesn't sit.

As much as I was using it, I didn't think it needed it.
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
You can quickly confirm or rule out algae if you have your old filter to cut open. It will be immediately obvious if you have been colonized.

Some biocides / algae inhibitors can be an issue in themselves if users over-dose the tank and reduce the lubricity of the fuel.
Not so much an issue with my grandfather’s Detroit or Caterpillar with relatively sloppy, cam driven plunger injectors, but CRD / CDI components are a closer fit and require better fuel quality. Low lubricity can drastically increase wear rates of the fuel pump and injector valves.

To your priming efforts, are your clear fuel lines full and free of air bubbles?
Do any new bubbles form when you apply suction to the LP pump outlet line?

Good luck,

-dave

Added:
I’ll bump the fact you’ve installed aftermarket Crank and Cam position sensors, but that’s on the back burner until you’ve got fuel spurting from the fuel rail fittings during cranking, then see 3000 psi rail pressure after you tighten it.

WARNING: don’t be near HP fittings during cranking. The high pressure spray from a leaking fitting can penetrate skin and poison you dead. No joke.
 
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