"Routine" radio swap = Start Error?

endgame

New member
Hi all,

I think I've read every available thread on this dreaded start error, consolidated and perofrmed all the various troubleshooting steps mentioned and ultimately came to the conclusion that I should send out the ECM and SKREEM for reprogramming and/or have the immobilizer system disabled.

Now the question remains - what exactly did I do wrong, if anything? This van ran like a champ until I removed the negative terminal in order to swap out the factory radio. (It was a plug-and-play wire harness from Crutchfield.) Seems like at least a few people have had this happen "out of nowhere".:idunno:

Radio and Powered sub sounded awesome. Went to move the van back to it's usual driveway spot and....well you know the rest of the story.

Thanks for any insights you might have.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
... (It was a plug-and-play wire harness from Crutchfield.) Seems like at least a few people have had this happen "out of nowhere".:idunno:
...
Have you unplugged the head unit connector and tried starting? There have been reports of some adapters swapping pins from male to female.

:cheers: vic
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
When things go wrong ask yourself the question "What was the last thing you did?"

So, have you tried unplugging the new radio and then possibly doing a battery reset and see if your start error clears?

If not a scan with a Sprinter specific scan tool may tell you what is causing the error.

Keith.
 

endgame

New member
Thanks for the quick replies.

Yes, I un-did every move. Re-installed and unlocked factory radio > Battery "reset" > pulled fuses noted in other threads > tested every circuit for resistance and key-off draw > checked FB1 & 2 by verifying voltage at SKREEM pins 3 & 7 > Cleaned all contacts > replaced battery > replaced key batteries

Note that it did start once, and stalled after the 2-second buffer. Now there is no response other than the start error. Also, keys no longer activate power locks.

One thing I noticed scattered throughout the other threads is a warning against having the key too close to the ignition RFID antenna when disconnecting the battery. That's the only thing I can't say for certain I didn't do, though I'm pretty sure I put the key in the cup holder. Not leaving the key in the ignition when working on cars was a habit my dad drilled into me at a really young age.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
FWIW. The key FOB batteries don't power the RFID chip. Did you try a second key?

"Normal" start security when you have the OEM remote locks is that the engine will crank and maybe even start, followed by a slightly delayed "Start Error" on the dash.

The remote lock operation shouldn't be involved. Those not working may be a clue.

Have you scanned for DTC's?

Have you closely inspected for wire(s) or connector(s) being out of place in the area of your work? Double check all related fuse. It is probably worth checking them with an ohmmeter vs just a visual inspection.

If nothing surfaces then some furtherl troubleshooting of voltages at various points would be my mode. The ECM is pretty reliable, but not foolproof. I can't speak for the RFID security components/modules. Some here have reported odd problems with those.

Good luck.

:cheers: vic
 
Last edited:

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Sounds like the SKREEM has lost knowledge of your keys (both RKE and RFID) ... SOS Diagnostics could re-instill their presence.

I'd also check the side-of-seat fuses ... you may have popped one down there. Even the ones NOT "noted in other threads"

--dick
 

endgame

New member
All fuses were checked with a DMM, resistance and Vdrop to check for high resistance faults.

Close inspection of fuse blocks didn't show any signs of corrosion or loose connections.

The delay behavior only happened once, followed by persistent start error displayed with no cranking at all.

Shipped ECM, keys, and SKREEM to SOS already, I'm just curious if something as routine as disconnecting the battery would cause this.
 

endgame

New member
FWIW. The key FOB batteries don't power the RFID chip. Did you try a second key?

"Normal" start security when you have the OEM remote locks is that the engine will crank and maybe even start, followed by a slightly delayed "Start Error" on the dash.

The remote lock operation shouldn't be involved. Those not working may be a clue.

Have you scanned for DTC's?

Have you closely inspected for wire(s) or connector(s) being out of place in the area of your work? Double check all related fuse. It is probably worth checking them with an ohmmeter vs just a visual inspection.

If nothing surfaces then some furtherl troubleshooting of voltages at various points would be my mode. The ECM is pretty reliable, but not foolproof. I can't speak for the RFID security components/modules. Some here have reported odd problems with those.

Good luck.

:cheers: vic
Tried (3) keys.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
... I'm just curious if something as routine as disconnecting the battery would cause this.
:idunno:

It could be related. I recall stories on here of SKREEM modules "going bad" after jump starts or when system voltages get out of whack.

If the majority of prior posts here are any example, you're in good hands with SOS. Keep us posted.

Not based upon anything except covering bases...
I would verify that your head unit cable adapter wiring is absolutely correct. There is a speed sensor wire in the OEM radio which *could* *maybe* affect the CAN communication if miswired. It would be a shame to have it all sorted out by SOS only to get have the same thing happen again.

:cheers: vic
 

endgame

New member
:idunno:



It could be related. I recall stories on here of SKREEM modules "going bad" after jump starts or when system voltages get out of whack.



If the majority of prior posts here are any example, you're in good hands with SOS. Keep us posted.



Not based upon anything except covering bases...

I would verify that your head unit cable adapter wiring is absolutely correct. There is a speed sensor wire in the OEM radio which *could* *maybe* affect the CAN communication if miswired. It would be a shame to have it all sorted out by SOS only to get have the same thing happen again.



:cheers: vic
Ah. Speed sensor. Hadn't thought of that, actually didn't realize the radio was that sophisticated.

I will double check the adapter, I already know there are a few unused pins that don't correspond to all of the factory wiring present.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

endgame

New member
OK. Cross-checked the prefab harness adapter against the service manual and there's a couple of discrepancies. Not sure if they were actually a factor though.

1) Factory harness has a Blue wire (no tracer)that doesn't show up in the service manual. It's in pin 10, and the manual doesn't even list a pin 10.:hmmm:

2) BL/RD/WH Speed sensor output does not have a corresponding prefab adapter wire (The Pioneer head does not have adaptive volume control)

3) The adapter had the power antenna control directed to the BK "Radio Cellular Antenna" on the factory connector. This is the closest thing I have to a mismatch.:thinking:
 

BrennWagon

He’s just this guy, you know?
My only advice is check your engine chassis grounds. I had something similar happen to me and it was a bad engine ground.
 

endgame

New member
My only advice is check your engine chassis grounds. I had something similar happen to me and it was a bad engine ground.
I have some more downstream connections to check but I did remove all the ground terminations at the main battery (-) cable and hit them with a wire wheel, anti-ox, and snugged them up real güttentightzche.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Well, the service manual doesn't mention a simple "pin 10", so you'll have to cross-correlate with the service manual's pinout diagrams.

RadioConnectors.png


Here's the entire "radio" section from the 2006 service manual:

RadioHookupFull.png

--dick
 

endgame

New member
Well, the service manual doesn't mention a simple "pin 10", so you'll have to cross-correlate with the service manual's pinout diagrams.

Interesting. This is a 2005 though, and this is the pinout found in the manual I have. (Got it from a link on this forum, and taking on faith that it's actually for an '05)

Could be coincidence, but after the splice [S257] the wire for K-TCM/RADIO is blue on the 2006.

At this point I'm fairly confident that the radio wiring is accurate. I must have jostled something around, so it could have been correlated - just not the root cause.
 

Attachments

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...

Could be coincidence, but after the splice [S257] the wire for K-TCM/RADIO is blue on the 2006.

At this point I'm fairly confident that the radio wiring is accurate. I must have jostled something around, so it could have been correlated - just not the root cause.
Maybe.

In the schematics which Dick provided S257 also has Data Link Connector which likely includes K-line or CAN interface.

You might consider clipping that wire and speed sense in the adapter wiring if they are included in your adapter. Those connections are not at all needed for an aftermarket head unit.

That said, I have nothing to prove that your aftermarket radio install had anything to do with your security issues, just last thing done.

:2cents: vic
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Interesting. This is a 2005 though, and this is the pinout found in the manual I have. (Got it from a link on this forum, and taking on faith that it's actually for an '05)
That's actually the 2003 service manual (many ways to tell: in the "how to decode the VIN" section, they use 2003 as the example year ... but the real killer is to use the Adobe "Properties" tool and it reveals the creation/modification date of mid-March 2003. 3rd way: it covers the OM612 engine, which does NOT have an electric turbo actuator nor electric in-tank fuel pump). Both the 2004 and 2006 manuals at http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference are more correct for your (and my) 2005.

If you stare at (and/or compare) our two pinouts, they're really the same ... the only difference being that while your *image* of the connector shows 1 thru 8, and then another 1 thru 8, the list has the 1 thru 16. But doesn't provide a hint as to which of the "8's" is really pin 16.

Since MB used the same radio pinout and wire colors for 2003 and 2006, it's kind'a moot, except when trying to puzzle out pinnage remotely.

The MB radio did self-adjust volume based upon vehicle speed. That's "pin 9" on your list, and is a speed-varying pulse generated by the instrument cluster for this sole purpose.
But: if you look at page 8w-47-2 in the wiring diagram section of your "05" manual, you'll see that they call the speed sensor pin #1 of C1, not #9. The 2006 version "clarified" (or muddified) that confusion ... it's #1 of C1 in the pin list, too.

Ahh, well... there are other areas in the schematics where wires are flat-out missing in both versions of the manual, a situation greatly enhancing the need for coffee before consulation and beer (or stronger) afterwards...

--dick
 

Top Bottom