Expect a few changes with the big boys

flman

Well-known member
Well lets hope they are not bailed out again on our dime.


BTW, put new brakes pads on the Transit, mounted the snow tires, and put the rear tires on the front. Lets keep this somewhat on topic. :whistle:
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. When we replaced my wife's 1995 Buick in 2015 I looked into EV. For our use it really would have been a logical choice as to range, charge time, etc. The problem for me was the initial cost vs a conventional engine vehicle, and the fact that our annual miles were/are so low any mpg benefit was negligible. Another issue was that if we keep the car as long as typical (1995 Buick to 2015... perhaps unrealistic for a Hyundai) a battery change would be necessary.

We put our money into an Elantra. 40 mpg on a trip. So far so good. Time will tell.

:cheers: vic
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
This is the week for CES ... the Consumer Electronics Show currently happening in Las Vegas.

Monday was the dog-and-pony period for the "tier suppliers" ... the companies that build the bits that are integrated into the whole-car systems. All of the chatter is focusing on Autonomous vehicles, but many of the subsystems will be appearing in (enhanced) "normal" cars as well.

Some of the presented systems are at the "Level 4" state of control.

One video was of a real situation where a Toyota test car (on a 3-lane one-way highway, not a test track) ... with the auto-driving turned off (but sensors still active) had an "incident" ... the driver (in the passing lane) violently sneezed ... and side-swiped the left barrier. He then crossed all the way to the right breakdown lane (i can't recall if he spun 180 degrees or not) and stopped. His road-crossing caused the two cars behind him (one in each lane) to hit each other as they tried to avoid him.
Upon replay "back at the lab", the (remember: wasn't engaged) Toyota auto-driving software claimed that it (a) wouldn't have hit the barrier (unless the driver, as he did, yanked the wheel left) (b) would've then recovered by *accelerating*, to give the trailing cars no cause to deviate from their paths.

That video (and YouTuber analysis) starts at about 15:20 into this video: https://youtu.be/HyLg_pO_TjE. It replays a number of times during the commentary.
They do a run-up commentary starting a couple of minutes earlier, discussing how "smart cars" will be watching (and trying to help) even under manual control.

--dick :popcorn:
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...

One video was of a real situation where a Toyota test car (on a 3-lane one-way highway, not a test track) ... with the auto-driving turned off (but sensors still active) had an "incident" ... the driver (in the passing lane) violently sneezed ... and side-swiped the left barrier. He then crossed all the way to the right breakdown lane (i can't recall if he spun 180 degrees or not) and stopped. His road-crossing caused the two cars behind him (one in each lane) to hit each other as they tried to avoid him.
Upon replay "back at the lab", the (remember: wasn't engaged) Toyota auto-driving software claimed that it (a) wouldn't have hit the barrier (unless the driver, as he did, yanked the wheel left) (b) would've then recovered by *accelerating*, to give the trailing cars no cause to deviate from their paths.
...

--dick :popcorn:
Just recently I commented to my wife that with all of the advances in driver safety enhancement we may trade in the Elantra for safety feature improvements, not rust or reliability deterioration.

As I mentioned above, the problem again is the low miles per year and expected driving conditions for our use. We rarely travel with her car, and we don't live in a metropolitan area where freeway type heavy traffic is common. Our risk factor is rather low.

:cheers: vic
 
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Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
I just bought a 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV to replace my 2001 Toyota Prius. The Bolt is a great car for my needs as a city/suburb car. I have a garage and a Level 2, 240V charging station in my garage. My electricity cost to run the Bolt is less than half the cost of gas for the Prius.

But there is a ways to go before Electric will work for everyone, especially for long drives. I use my Sprinter for longer road trips. All the media hype on EV's and autonomous driving are a bit overly optimistic in my view. In the USA EV's are mostly compliance vehicles and the only one selling any significant numbers is Tesla.

The future should be interesting.

Edit: Just noticed the Bloomberg article called in the Chevy BOLD - cute so much for editing.

More - that article has a lot of erroneous info like: "An electric vehicle never needs antifreeze" my Bolt has three independent liquid cooling loops that require normal Delco anti-freeze. It does require replacement every five years or 150,000 miles. I'm attaching the Maintenance Schedule form the owner manual. It won't have to go to dealer very often except to keep tires rotated.
 

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Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
What a bunch of Bloomberg BS:

"Piecing together a decent electric vehicle is becoming an exercise in shopping more than a masterstroke in manufacturing: sourcing a good battery, finding solid suppliers for motors and other commoditized parts. Widgets that can’t be bought are increasingly spun up from a 3D printer."

This is pure fantasy!!
 

glasseye

Well-known member
So, once vehicles' AIs can communicate with each other, they can cooperate to avoid accidents. What a concept. :bow:
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
I got the January issue of SAE Automotive Engineering today. Most of this issue is about electrification of automotive technology. I may have to soften sarcasm about things going electric. One interesting example is electric supercharging. Lots of innovation not just to electrify the drivetrain. Tomorrow I'll post a few articles from this issue that relate to this topic.

There is also a good OpEd piece about the future direction of autonomous vehicle ownership.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
On that scoop sorry but Ford can't compete in that small car Euro market.
The biggest Ford factories in Europe USED to be in Germany and UK.
Basically the same a GM with Vauxhaul/Opel line.

Stiff competition has reduced these makes to mere shadows of their former self in both brands Chrysler left its remnants in the early 80's in Coventry.
GM has just about gone.
Ford still uses the Dagenham Works for diesel engine production only.

Ford in the 1980's enjoyed around 45% of the UK market, but that is just a memory, its been on the skids for years, in fact decades .
After all Ford USA has just about eliminated it car line for the USA in 2019 so its in line with car platform contraction using ICE engines worldwide.
Still plenty of choice for Euro consumers though , I bet Ford won't even be missed.

In reality this move to electric cars is going to eliminate many of the old Fossil Famous names including my pet brands JLR. Great repair money spinners those!
Ford Chrysler and GM are really in the firing line as Chinese production ramps up in the coming decades by brand relocation..
Dennis
 

HarryN

Active member
So, once vehicles' AIs can communicate with each other, they can cooperate to avoid accidents. What a concept. :bow:
Sort of. The real concept behind this is to increase highway packing density.

In other words, the vehicles will be operated with very little space in front of and behind them so that more cars can be on the road at the same time. This partly makes up for poor planning on the part of people in charge of road transportation.

When a person drives, through a combination of instinct and training, we tend to leave enough distance between cars so that we can react to changing traffic conditions.

In these high density approaches, this spacing distance will be very small - far too small for a person to react if something goes wrong.

Think about the experience - going 70 mph with 1/2 of a car length in front of you and everyone else. Sort of like a roller coaster ride. If the car automation goes out, it turns the controls back to you to "figure it out".
 

HarryN

Active member
On that scoop sorry but Ford can't compete in that small car Euro market.
The biggest Ford factories in Europe USED to be in Germany and UK.
Basically the same a GM with Vauxhaul/Opel line.

Stiff competition has reduced these makes to mere shadows of their former self in both brands Chrysler left its remnants in the early 80's in Coventry.
GM has just about gone.
Ford still uses the Dagenham Works for diesel engine production only.

Ford in the 1980's enjoyed around 45% of the UK market, but that is just a memory, its been on the skids for years, in fact decades .
After all Ford USA has just about eliminated it car line for the USA in 2019 so its in line with car platform contraction using ICE engines worldwide.
Still plenty of choice for Euro consumers though , I bet Ford won't even be missed.

In reality this move to electric cars is going to eliminate many of the old Fossil Famous names including my pet brands JLR. Great repair money spinners those!
Ford Chrysler and GM are really in the firing line as Chinese production ramps up in the coming decades by brand relocation..
Dennis
You can kind of see it already.

Ford and GM essentially exiting the sedan business.

VW and others making massive investment into China battery factories, even if the cars at assembled in NA or the EU.

Potentially the greatest shift of assets and ongoing massive trade deficit problems ever.
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
Re: Expect a few changes with the big boys (SAE Auto Engineering)

Here are some of the details from January 2019 issue of SAE Automotive Engineering... Not sure if you can read it without an account so I'm attaching some key stories relevant to this thread.

https://www.sae.org/publications/magazines/automotive-engineering

First PDF is cover and Editorial about how Rivian out-innovates the Detroit 3.

Second PDF is a piece by Sam Abuelsamid, Senior Analyst Navigant Research, about "The not-so-hidden cost of “free”". It discusses the Tesla model and how he thinks automated vehicles will operate in the future.

Third PDF is the full cover story on the Rivian electric pickup truck.

Enjoy,
 

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autostaretx

Erratic Member
... the article leads off with the paragraph:
"Outside China, few drivers have heard of brands such asHit BYD or Beijing Automobile Works. But they're two of the largest players in the world's biggest market for electric cars."

We all just know that the pronunciation for that bolded item will be "ahh - :turd:"

--dick
p.s. :lol: ... the forum's "no bad word" algorithm blocked the original quote... it required a bit of creativity to have it appear as in the article.
 
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