Engine light -- code P2457

Düsseldorfer

New member
Hello all,

I've been lurking on the forum with nothing much to say lately; I've been fooling around with a lot of Fifties and Sixties machines, and my Noughties vehicles have been pleasantly boring (from the maintenance perspective).

This weekend I put several hundred miles on the Sprinter, from highways to country roads, as I noodled all around central Texas picking up various components for my next project car. Temperatures were cool for a Texas summer-- hardly got above 96 F :smilewink: -- and the Sprinter didn't miss a beat. 21-22 mpg the whole way.

This afternoon, after about an hour on the road, I got a check engine light. No noticeable symptoms or anything otherwise out of the ordinary. I stopped at Autozone for a quick scan and got the code; I didn't have time for much more than a brief visual check under the hood after that before I parked up the van at the workshop, but didn't see anything amiss in the engine room.

The code was P2457 EGR Cooling System Performance. According to Autozone's system, this means that the intake air temp (IAT) sensor has gone over a set temp for >30sec, with possible causes including 1) restricted air to the CAC (intercooler) system, 2) damaged CAC, and 3) "tubes off or damaged."

I'll likely take it in to the dealer in the next few days, but wanted to ping the list to see if anyone else had seen this and, if so, what the diagnosis was. I will follow up once I have some news from my end.

Thanks, and happy Sprintering!

D

PS- I got all kinds of comments on the van during the trip; now that someone has said "nice truck" to me at the gas pump, this West Coaster feels like a REAL TEXAN. :thumbup: But I do sometimes feel like that three-pointed star attracts a little too much attention...
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Thanks for posting.

If you're able, please try to get your dealership to provide a vehicle scan report before they clear any codes. I'm really curious to know what either WiTECH or StarMobile desktop client have to say about code 2457 (it's not in the service manual).

-Jon
 

sprintguy

16+ yrs Master Commercial technician
D, I also tried to find p2457 on dealer connect, not there but.. found code on Ford site: P2457 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Cooler System Performance, I fear this is a generic OBD2 code. I am guessing but this may fall into EGR cooler and valve codes, just a tad bit of info , if the dealer comes up with a 2511 or any other EGR code make sure they fix the whole system: cooler, valve, and applicable sensors
 

Düsseldorfer

New member
Just a brief update. I took the Sprinter in to Helfman Dodge this morning, and within the hour had a call.

The tech says the EGR cooler needs to be cleaned out, which requires an overnight soak (presumably to remove ash buildup). This seems to be not unreasonable, given that I have already had to clean the EGR due to ash. I'm curious why the Sprinter seems to have an ash buildup issue, as I've only put 7000 miles on the machine, nearly all on the highway; maybe that just means it's time to try some fuel additives.

Unfortunately the tech has no way to print the vehicle scan, though he did offer to take a cell phone photo for me. I asked him just to note down the codes that he found and will post those if they are different from the one I mentioned above. By the way, Autozone's system also identified P2457 as a Ford code, but I was able to find it here on the Sprinter Forum by doing a search on the number.

I'll post another update when I have the Sprinter back. As I said, there didn't seem to be any performance issues that went along with the computer error, so I'm not expecting any drama-- but then again, one never does!
:lol:


Thanks,
D
 

sprintguy

16+ yrs Master Commercial technician
Just a brief update. I took the Sprinter in to Helfman Dodge this morning, and within the hour had a call.

The tech says the EGR cooler needs to be cleaned out, which requires an overnight soak (presumably to remove ash buildup). This seems to be not unreasonable, given that I have already had to clean the EGR due to ash. I'm curious why the Sprinter seems to have an ash buildup issue, as I've only put 7000 miles on the machine, nearly all on the highway; maybe that just means it's time to try some fuel additives.

Unfortunately the tech has no way to print the vehicle scan, though he did offer to take a cell phone photo for me. I asked him just to note down the codes that he found and will post those if they are different from the one I mentioned above. By the way, Autozone's system also identified P2457 as a Ford code, but I was able to find it here on the Sprinter Forum by doing a search on the number.

I'll post another update when I have the Sprinter back. As I said, there didn't seem to be any performance issues that went along with the computer error, so I'm not expecting any drama-- but then again, one never does!
:lol:


Thanks,
D
I soaked a egr cooler before, and I will never ever do it again. I hate comebacks

Carl
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
It's not your job to coach them.... but for anyone interested....

With WiTECH, the tech doesn't have to print the vehicle scan. He can save it as a pdf and email it to the service advisor... who can forward it to your email address. StarMOBILE Desktop Client can save it as an html file, but it's kind of a pain to find. Both reports end up on the PC, not the scan device (WiTECH VCI POD or StarMOBILE hand held unit). It can also be copied to the USB thumb drive... but I'd bet most shops lose thumb drives faster than T30 torx bits.

Thanks for asking, though.


-Jon
 

Düsseldorfer

New member
Update: just picked up the D-wagen. I didn't get to the dealer in time to speak with the service people, so I'll call tomorrow.

According to the tech's notes, the thrown code was "2951: EGR Cooler - Implausible Values". A quick search of the forum shows that OrioN and Jasonec have had this code as well. OrioN's posts about his experiences are worth reading in this context, as he provides the details of a conversation with his tech.

After the code was cleared, the EGR cooler assembly was dismounted from my Sprinter and soaked overnight to remove ash buildup. The sensors were cleaned as well. Per OrioN's post, this is the recommendation from Daimler... er, Chrysler... er, Fiat.

JD, thanks for the detail on the scan tools. It may not be my job to coach these guys, but next time I will do a little coaching and get a scan printout. :smirk:

The tech asked if I did a lot of idling, since (as is logical) he thought that might account for the ash buildup. He had carried out this procedure on another Sprinter, and in that case the owner often left it to idle while it was "on duty." In fact, I rarely idle the van for more than a moment, and nearly all of my mileage is on the highway. So why the ash? A puzzle.

Thanks for the notes, guys. Carl, if you can fill in any more details on your experience with this issue, it would be appreciated.

Best, D
 

sprintguy

16+ yrs Master Commercial technician
Fellow Sprinter owners (NCV3) (VB) constant idleing on these models has yet to be a verified issue. I will tell you that the truck line has been dealing with soot issues since the cummins engine recieved such emission systems, and extended idle was suposedly a root cause of "over soot condition", but many changes in programing and hard parts have been released for the trucks, and over idle situations have kind of took the back burner of what not to do. ( but still long idle times are not recommended)
What has to be remembered is that most of you have had the H44 recall, in wich the new software chanded the function of the EGR valve in order to deal with " over soot condition".:lol: Well if you think about it diesal fuel produces a high soot content when burned, hence the emission after treatment systems ,and EGR valves. Let us first look how a EGR valve works to clean up emissions .
EGR's main purpose is to reduce the amount of NOX ( oxides of Nitogen ) wich is a smog agent. how does it do it? by introducing a metered amount of inert exhaust gas into the cylinders to displace a burnable charge one can lower the temp. of the cylinders , thus producing less NOX. Diesal engines tent to have higher exhaust temps due to a more efficiant burn , soo to make the EGR system work more efficiantly one must lower the temp of the inert gas. Thus the birth of the EGR cooler. The coolers main purpose is to cool the exhaust gas temp to a acceptable level before entering the cylinder. On the Sprinter model the exhaust gas ( soot laden ) enters the cooler first then the Valve then the engine.
Guess what, the cooler takes the brunt of the soot. Think of your radiator, the fins allow air to pass by small tubes and exchange heat ( the fins are used to help dissapate heat to incomming air ) thus cooling the liquid inside the tubes . That said, EGR coolers are basically the same concept, but cooled liquid is moved through tubes ( like a radiator) inside the cooler. There are fins ( like a radiator) in the cooler, as exhaust gas is passed through the maze of fins the heat is transfered to the coolant flowing in the tubes.View attachment sprinteregr.doc
Why do they get dirty? Poor fuel, improperly operating fuel and air systems, and just plain old soot acumulatiom from diesal exhaust gas. You can thank the EPA and all the tree huggers for this device.
Does long idle times make this worse, you decide!! I will end by saying not every cooler will have a problem early on, but someday it will let you down. Note: I have seen less cooler and egr issues since the new programming .
Carl
 

BigBlueBus

Member
Ok so how about removing the whole system altogether...the heck with the tree huggers and the EPA? What if I was to remove the EGR, cooler, and straight pipe the exhaust?
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Ok so how about removing the whole system altogether...the heck with the tree huggers and the EPA? What if I was to remove the EGR, cooler, and straight pipe the exhaust?
With all the codes documented in the service manual related to EGR and DPF functionality, I'd have to say your Sprinter would not function well, if at all.

-Jon
 

Düsseldorfer

New member
I'm reviving this old thread of mine to report that the EGR cooler code that I had last summer has popped up again. I didn't get the code read at Autozone this time, since it was not helpful last time, but the Dodge tech reports the same issue. We're going to do the overnight "spa treatment" on the cooler housing again.

I should have mentioned in my original post that I was at 6000 miles, nearly all highway, when the first code appeared. Since then, I have put on an additional 15,000 miles, and just a couple of weeks ago did the 20,000-mile oil and filter service. Those additional miles have included a trip to Ohio, with a loaded car hauler on the return; and a trip to Quebec, with a couple of vintage car engines (and a few cases of choice microbrews) weighting me down on the way back. Great trips, no troubles of any kind.

I suppose I should be ranting and raving about having the EGR cooler get stuffed up on me twice in the first 25,000 miles of driving, but honestly I don't mind. It's a pretty minor problem, in my view, and one that Carl has indicated is not necessarily unique to Sprinters anyway. I might feel differently if it caused a driveability issue, but it seems to be symptom-free, unlike a sticky EGR. In sum, this does not change my opinion that the Sprinter is one of the most capable vehicles I have ever owned, and given what I've been able to do with it over the last 14 months I would make the same purchase decision again.

The D-wagen is still under warranty, so the two cooler soakings have been no skin off my back. I'm thinking of buying a spare EGR cooler housing and some gaskets to keep in the workshop, though. If this problem recurs after the warranty expires, I'd just as soon do the work myself, particularly since I'm guessing that it's not a terribly involved task. I carry a spare EGR for the same reason, and you might say that was $250 I shouldn't have to spend-- but if the van had cost an extra $250 when you bought it, would that have been a big deal for you? That's my take, anyway.

In any case, I'm looking forward to having der fliegende Ziegelstein back tomorrow, as I'm planning to hit a big North Texas old-car swap meet this weekend. I'll report any further news.

Thanks,
D
 

sprintguy

16+ yrs Master Commercial technician
I'm reviving this old thread of mine to report that the EGR cooler code that I had last summer has popped up again. I didn't get the code read at Autozone this time, since it was not helpful last time, but the Dodge tech reports the same issue. We're going to do the overnight "spa treatment" on the cooler housing again.

I should have mentioned in my original post that I was at 6000 miles, nearly all highway, when the first code appeared. Since then, I have put on an additional 15,000 miles, and just a couple of weeks ago did the 20,000-mile oil and filter service. Those additional miles have included a trip to Ohio, with a loaded car hauler on the return; and a trip to Quebec, with a couple of vintage car engines (and a few cases of choice microbrews) weighting me down on the way back. Great trips, no troubles of any kind.

I suppose I should be ranting and raving about having the EGR cooler get stuffed up on me twice in the first 25,000 miles of driving, but honestly I don't mind. It's a pretty minor problem, in my view, and one that Carl has indicated is not necessarily unique to Sprinters anyway. I might feel differently if it caused a driveability issue, but it seems to be symptom-free, unlike a sticky EGR. In sum, this does not change my opinion that the Sprinter is one of the most capable vehicles I have ever owned, and given what I've been able to do with it over the last 14 months I would make the same purchase decision again.

The D-wagen is still under warranty, so the two cooler soakings have been no skin off my back. I'm thinking of buying a spare EGR cooler housing and some gaskets to keep in the workshop, though. If this problem recurs after the warranty expires, I'd just as soon do the work myself, particularly since I'm guessing that it's not a terribly involved task. I carry a spare EGR for the same reason, and you might say that was $250 I shouldn't have to spend-- but if the van had cost an extra $250 when you bought it, would that have been a big deal for you? That's my take, anyway.

In any case, I'm looking forward to having der fliegende Ziegelstein back tomorrow, as I'm planning to hit a big North Texas old-car swap meet this weekend. I'll report any further news.

Thanks,
D
More on cooler codes ::professor: The EGR cooler code can also be caused by a dirty or malfunctioning EGR cooler temp sensor, I personally recommend cleaning all the exhaust temp sensors and espesially the EGR cooler temp sensors. One more note: be sure that the exhaust pressure sensor also gets cleaned (located on the rear most housing of the EGR cooler)

arl
 

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
I am beginning to see more '07-'08 647 Sprinters here at the Global Sprinter Research Center, which are finally coming out of warranty. I now stock EGR coolers which are available from me as either new OR exchange (used and cleaned), ready to go.

I hope to have reconditioned DPFs here, ready to use, on an exchange basis in the near future as well.

For more information contact me directly. Doktor A
 

Düsseldorfer

New member
Carl,

Thanks for pointing that out. It's my understanding that my tech is cleaning the sensors as well; I should have been more specific in my posts. I believe it's an EGR cooler temp sensor fault (improbable temperature value) that throws the code to begin with.

D
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
I am beginning to see more '07-'08 647 Sprinters here at the Global Sprinter Research Center, which are finally coming out of warranty. I now stock EGR coolers which are available from me as either new OR exchange (used and cleaned), ready to go.

I hope to have reconditioned DPFs here, ready to use, on an exchange basis in the near future as well.

For more information contact me directly. Doktor A

Will you be offering the chance to coach NCV3 owners in the remove/replace procedures for EGR components next Spring?

-Jon

PS: you've been typing 612 and 647 too long.
 

kendall69

New member
I'm living proof that idling is not the cause of any problems.

I idle my vehicle five days a week for about and hour a day and some times more since 2007. Being in the Desert Southwest it is mandatory that you idle wiith the sir conditioner on to stay cool from May to October. Winter months you pretty much need the heat on.

So if anyone tell you that idling is the problem have them talk to me. I've idled every diesel I've ever owned for the same amount of time. Ford, Chevy, and now Sprinter and never had a problem.
 

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
PS: you've been typing 612 and 647 too long.
Completely unintentional. My sincere apologies. I will write 642 on the blackboard 100 times to break my mental block.

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Doktor A
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Completely unintentional. My sincere apologies. I will write 642 on the blackboard 100 times to break my mental block.

642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642642
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Doktor A
I'd rather consider a 2700 mile (one way) trip to Pennsylvania to learn how to remove and replace EGR anatomy under your skilled, patient tutelage..... but if all I can get is a 101 successful attempts out of 103 tries at typing 642, I'll take it :)



-Jon
 

denaliride2002

New member
What did you soak the cooler in?












Update: just picked up the D-wagen. I didn't get to the dealer in time to speak with the service people, so I'll call tomorrow.

According to the tech's notes, the thrown code was "2951: EGR Cooler - Implausible Values". A quick search of the forum shows that OrioN and Jasonec have had this code as well. OrioN's posts about his experiences are worth reading in this context, as he provides the details of a conversation with his tech.

After the code was cleared, the EGR cooler assembly was dismounted from my Sprinter and soaked overnight to remove ash buildup. The sensors were cleaned as well. Per OrioN's post, this is the recommendation from Daimler... er, Chrysler... er, Fiat.

JD, thanks for the detail on the scan tools. It may not be my job to coach these guys, but next time I will do a little coaching and get a scan printout. :smirk:

The tech asked if I did a lot of idling, since (as is logical) he thought that might account for the ash buildup. He had carried out this procedure on another Sprinter, and in that case the owner often left it to idle while it was "on duty." In fact, I rarely idle the van for more than a moment, and nearly all of my mileage is on the highway. So why the ash? A puzzle.

Thanks for the notes, guys. Carl, if you can fill in any more details on your experience with this issue, it would be appreciated.

Best, D
 

72chevy4x4

Active member
is the EGR considered smog equipment and covered under warranty beyond the 3yr/36k warranty period?
 

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