Coolant choice??

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Diesel_Seva

Member
Good morning!

Just curious if there are any opinions (backed by data and experience) in regards to coolant for the 3.0 diesel engine..

I recently got the "check coolant level" light. I saw that the coolant level was low and noticed a leak at the lower radiator hose.. I will tighten that and top off fluid..

I mistakenly asked the service clerk at the local auto parts store and they gave me Pentofrost.. poured some into distilled water and noticed that its blue so I did not add any.

The maintenance book has a few different options an I am curious if one is better than another? I drive mostly stop and go in San Diego with the exception of a handful of 1000 mile road trips throughout the year.

Thanks!
 
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220629

Well-known member
Diesel_Seva said:
...

The maintenance book has a few different options an I am curious if one is better than another? I drive mostly stop and go in San Diego with the exception of a handful of 1000 mile road trips throughout the year.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
If you use the proper MB spec number then brand/color doesn't matter. It is best to check for the product being listed on the BeVo site, unless the label has "MB Approval" specifically printed on the label.

Traditionally the V6 coolant spec is satisfied by using Valvoline™ ZEREX™ G-05™ Antifreeze / Coolant HOAT type. It was listed as MB325.0 on BeVo.
Consult your Operating Manual.
Mercedes states that your Operating Manual received with the vehicle is always in effect.

It appears that Zerex G 05 may have fallen off the BeVo list. (It may be a clerical list thing.) ADDED: OR... they may no longer list G05 because it doesn't meet the newer EURO regulations.

I'll continue to use the readily available Xerex G 05.

MB325.0 is "Application area in all passenger vehicles and passenger vehicle engines produced until April 2014 Application area in commercial vehicles and industrial engines according MB BeVo 310.1"

Note "OM6xx".
BeVoAntifreeze.jpg
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_310_1.pdf

Aqua Puttana said:
Anti-freeze coolant G05 type

You should be using G05 type coolant in your NAFTA Sprinter diesel engine meeting the Mercedes MB 325.0 spec. Many auto parts stores do not carry the recommended coolant and will tell you the "any color" stuff which is advertised for all vehicles is OK. I personally would not use the "any color" stuff except in an emergency because you dilute the long life of the original G05 HOAT chemistry.

I found these link discussions helpful:
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/coolant-hoat-214066/
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php?t=5763
Particularly post #4

One brand available at NAPA is Prestone Xerex G05. There are other brands also. As long as it is G05 type, the color within that chemistry type doesn't matter.

A recent post:
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=75509#post75509

***
Text from that post:
From the 2004 Sprinter owner's manual:

Coolant: Use coolant approved to MB 325.0, such as Valvoline GO5, or an equivalent Extended Life Coolant.

From my notes. Sorry I don't have the original source.

"Zerex G05 (Mopar 68029698-AA), incidentally, is the initial fill in PT Cruisers and many other Chrysler products. For the Sprinter, Mercedes and several Jeep models, the initial fill is the Glysantin G05, which is made by BASF, and is the same product found in the Mopar 05066286-AA jug. Some models, especially in Canada, use Zerex G48 (Mopar 6804893-AA) as the initial fill. All three of these have identical chemistries, and if you take the Sprinter to a dealer for a cooling system drain and renew, you could get any one of the three put into the system, as they are interchangeable and mixable (even though they are different colors, actually).

EURO Peak Coolant/Antifreeze manufactured by Old World Industries is also the same chemistry, and also is on The List of MB Spec 325.0 coolants. But I don't think you can get that here in North America, at least not in the States, anyway."

From the Valvoline Zerex site:

https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/antifreeze-products

I see nothing wrong with using the Zerex G05 coolant in the correct ratio or mixing it with other proper spec coolants regardless of color. AP/vic
***

Don't let the color of the proper chemistry coolant worry you. AP/vic
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Added:
From the Advanced Auto Parts Xerex G 05 web page.
"G-05 is a good substitute for G-48 coolant which is hard to get in the US. G-48 is the approved BMW coolant formulation. Only significant difference is B-05 has nitrites, which can decompose into carcinogens, but also are needed for anti-cavitation if used in diesel vehicles. Valvoline makes Zerex, go to their website for data sheets if you're interested. Good replacement for BMW coolant, or for any vehicle with aluminum engines, as long as you don't dilute with hard water."

Xerex G 48 is still listed for BeVo MB325.0, but is hard to find in N. America. NAPA lists G 48 on line. I don't know if it is common store stock.


:cheers: vic
 
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F

Ferrari

New member
Sorry that I am resurrecting this older post that is very useful. I am due to coolant change and currently have Valvoline Zerex G05 in '12 Sprinter. Recently was told by local dealer that my yellow colored antifreeze is now blue and that I should get new one. Instead of paying for MB logo on the canister I have decided to do Valvoline Zerex instead.

Now I didn't see any notable difference to switch from Valvoline Zerex G05 to newer Valvoline Zerex G48. Am I missing something? If I switch from yellow to blue coolant per Valvoline I can do it without fear of mixing those two (small amounts) if any leftover is stuck somewhere in the system.


Okay.. I didn't read added piece from Vic's post that answers mostly my question. Sorry about that.
 
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Kajtek1

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
Been driving MB cars for over 20 years and reading other forums, whenever MB owner comes with overheating issues, most of the time it turns he has Zerex in his system.
MB coolant has something that helps heat exchange. I put it in my Ford truck and even heavy hauling in hot weather, the cooling fan would come on only in hill climbing. That saves lot of fuel and makes driving more comfortable.
When you shop around, you will find that you MB coolant sells for like $3-5 more than Zerex.
 
2

220629

Well-known member
Kajtek1 said:
Been driving MB cars for over 20 years and reading other forums, whenever MB owner comes with overheating issues, most of the time it turns he has Zerex in his system.
MB coolant has something that helps heat exchange. I put it in my Ford truck and even heavy hauling in hot weather, the cooling fan would come on only in hill climbing. That saves lot of fuel and makes driving more comfortable.
When you shop around, you will find that you MB coolant sells for like $3-5 more than Zerex.
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Interesting observation.

In the USA Zerex G05 coolant is a more common product vs MB branded coolant. The MB spec HOAT formula G05 type coolant is not even offered by many North American coolant producers. It follows that many MB owners in the USA would be running Zerex G05.

The Zerex G05 meets the required MB specifications. MB is known for having stringent testing protocols.

Was the coolant that you replaced in the Ford truck also an HOAT formulation that met MB specs? If not, then you may be comparing apples to oranges.

Are you saying that MB vehicles that use MB branded coolant have never come in with cooling problems?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but you are coming right out and saying that the Zerex G05 product is inferior to MB branded product of the same MB specification.

That's a fairly serious claim which should have some good data to back it up.

:2cents: vic
 
John E

John E

Active member
I just had the coolant light come on and did a quick search here a few days ago. I ended up just ordering a gallon of the MB coolant online. As I'm still learning and reading here about problems that I'd never have imagined, I figured I'd play it safe.
 
Kajtek1

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
Aqua Puttana said:
Are you saying that MB vehicles that use MB branded coolant have never come in with cooling problems?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but you are coming right out and saying that the Zerex G05 product is inferior to MB branded product of the same MB specification.

That's a fairly serious claim which should have some good data to back it up.

:2cents: vic
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In over 20 years I read MB forums no MB owner having MB coolant in it come with system problems. Electric fans fail, visco clutches die, water pumps blow plastic impellers, but the issue when system works and car still overheats never was reported. In my 1998 MB E300DT I actually removed belt-driven fan and drove the car for few years without it, having it at 114F in Vegas. That was after I had to replace radiator, so I knew everything was done per specifications.
New owner in Long Beach reinstall the fan for city driving, but couple years later he removed it as well and the car drives depending on front electric fans only. It has about 300k miles by now.
Beside reading forum topics, I have no experience with Zerex, but than $3 saving never tempted me to become Guinea pig.
 
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F

Ferrari

New member
Kajtek1 said:
In over 20 years I read MB forums no MB owner having MB coolant in it come with system problems. Electric fans fail, visco clutches die, water pumps blow plastic impellers, but the issue when system works and car still overheats never was reported. In my 1998 MB E300DT I actually removed belt-driven fan and drove the car for few years without it, having it at 114F in Vegas. That was after I had to replace radiator, so I knew everything was done per specifications.
New owner in Long Beach reinstall the fan for city driving, but couple years later he removed it as well and the car drives depending on front electric fans only. It has about 300k miles by now.
Beside reading forum topics, I have no experience with Zerex, but than $3 saving never tempted me to become Guinea pig.
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I am not sure where are you getting those information. So are you claiming that Valvoline Zerex is inferior to MB branded antifreeze?

Like Vic said Zerex is on BeVo list as approved coolant not same as only just recommended.

I'm running my Sprinter on Valvoline Zerex G05 for the past 200k miles loaded and empty in hot and cold climate. No issues at all.

To me (my choice} this is almost same like buying MB branded brake pads instead of Hella Pagid or Textar. Or maybe MB branded transmission fluid comparing to Fuchs or Febi... It's all about research and $$. That's why I like this discussion board. I am still learning a lot while trying to avoid some unnecessary pricey mistakes.

And at the end MB Coolant and Zerex G-05 might not be identical. I don't know. But both fluids satisfied BeVo. Some chemical company in Montvale, NJ makes it for MB USA.

My 2¢
 
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John E

John E

Active member
These conversations are why I just went with the MB coolant. I'm "afraid" to try anything else unless I have enough research and data to do so. I got the low coolant light on the dash, and the level isn't even at the minimum. I may have a bad sensor or something. But I splashed a little MB coolant and distilled water in it and i'll figure it out this week.
 
F

Ferrari

New member
John E said:
These conversations are why I just went with the MB coolant. I'm "afraid" to try anything else unless I have enough research and data to do so. I got the low coolant light on the dash, and the level isn't even at the minimum. I may have a bad sensor or something. But I splashed a little MB coolant and distilled water in it and i'll figure it out this week.
Click to expand...
It's your dime @JohnE...

I copied this from online sellers page and this is kind of my philosophy too..

"You may not realize this, but the parts that make up your Mercedes-Benz are not necessarily manufactured by Mercedes-Benz. No cause for concern, as Mercedes-Benz designs the part, hires a manufacturer, and ensures its quality to you. In fact, many of these manufacturers have been making parts for Mercedes-Benz for decades. In our industry these manufacturers are called OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers), and these are often brands you recognize, including Lemforder, ZF, Sachs, Bosch, Valeo, Zimmermann, Siemens VDO, Corteco, and more. Don’t be surprised to open that Genuine Mercedes-Benz parts box and find an OEM branded part inside, simply with the addition of a Mercedes-Benz logo.

Be sure to keep an eye out for OE tags on our product pages to quickly identify parts coming direct from OE manufacturers. That extra bit of insight could save you some serious money while shopping!"



In my opinion this could apply to mentioned fluids.

All the best!
 
Kajtek1

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
Just becouse fluid is on bevmo list doesn't mean it is the best for your vehicle.
Another sample is Mobi1, who is on the list for several MB engines. Historically M1 generates high iron. I found internet forum about 10 years ago, where M1 representative was answering question.
When ask question -why the oil generates high iron, the representative choose not to answer it.
Tru is that modern engines run for so many hundreds miles, that "not the best" oil will still have them running for long time. I am pretty sure even on cooking oil you could expect 200,000 miles before engine will develop problems, but again, my choice is not to be Guinea pig.
Brake pads here might not be similar sample as pads choice, just like tire choice is compromise.
MB usually puts soft pads for maximum braking power. Side effect is dust and shorter life.
I compromise for Akebono, who for slightly less braking power don't leave dust and last for hundreds thousands miles.
 
2

220629

Well-known member
Kajtek1 said:
Just becouse fluid is on bevmo list doesn't mean it is the best for your vehicle.
Another sample is Mobi1, who is on the list for several MB engines. Historically M1 generates high iron. I found internet forum about 10 years ago, where M1 representative was answering question.
When ask question -why the oil generates high iron, the representative choose not to answer it.
Tru is that modern engines run for so many hundreds miles, that "not the best" oil will still have them running for long time. I am pretty sure even on cooking oil you could expect 200,000 miles before engine will develop problems, but again, my choice is not to be Guinea pig.
Brake pads here might not be similar sample as pads choice, just like tire choice is compromise.
MB usually puts soft pads for maximum braking power. Side effect is dust and shorter life.
I compromise for Akebono, who for slightly less braking power don't leave dust and last for hundreds thousands miles.
Click to expand...
:idunno:

Oil is off topic, but comments without data is on topic.

How many oil tests showed high iron? What was the sampling? Same engine design? One engine, many tests? Few tests, many engines?

Was the "higher" iron statistically significant? How much higher was the iron? 25%, 50%, 100%, 500%?

Higher as compared to what other same MB spec brand(s)? If they are different spec oils it may be apples vs oranges.

:2cents: vic
 
Kajtek1

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
All M1 oil tests show high iron. Over the years I did about 4 tests before abounding the brand and each time fellow forum member post his test result, it is all the same.
Here is report done on my 1998 E300DT attached.
Average owner has no way to easy test the fluids, so beside sending samples to lab, you have a choice to take others experience posted on the net, or build test station like this guy did.
Coming to coolant experience, for me listening how often fan click in on my truck is sufficient and the huge fan suppose draws over 20 HP from the engine, so difference is quite easy to notice.
Remove engine fan on your Zerex-filled vehicle and report back?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT2qa-2TuLA&list=FLvDVk1hzbs-Rm9QYHHJlejQ&index=2&t=0s
 

Attachments

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4wheeldog

4wheeldog

2018 144" Tall Revel
Kajtek1 said:
All M1 oil tests show high iron. Over the years I did about 4 tests before abounding the brand and each time fellow forum member post his test result, it is all the same.
Here is report done on my 1998 E300DT
https://oilreport.blackstone-labs.com/?lab=E39867&session=yhderdrq2eel54ye0g4sgrfa#/overview
Average owner has no way to easy test the fluids, so beside sending samples to lab, you have a choice to take others experience posted on the net, or build test station like this guy did.
Coming to coolant experience, for me listening how often fan click in on my truck is sufficient and the huge fan suppose draws over 20 HP from the engine, so difference is quite easy to notice.
Remove engine fan on your Zerex-filled vehicle and report back?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT2qa-2TuLA&list=FLvDVk1hzbs-Rm9QYHHJlejQ&index=2&t=0s
Click to expand...
Straight water cools better than any commercial coolant. But I would not run it, for obvious reasons. I don't think your criteria is valid.
And Mobil 1 ESP is not the same as run of the mill Mobil 1. And the iron numbers from my Blackstone report on ESP do not reflect high iron.
Anecdotal evidence is not the same as MB's listing a fluid as acceptable.
Just saying.
 
Kajtek1

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
Can you post copy of your report?
I stop using M1 years ago, so wonder if they improved the formula.
Would water be the best for heat transfer, the popular water wetters would have no base.
Racing owners swear by them as they can't use coolants on tracks.
 
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F

Ferrari

New member
Kajtek1 said:
Just becouse fluid is on bevmo list doesn't mean it is the best for your vehicle.
Another sample is Mobi1, who is on the list for several MB engines. Historically M1 generates high iron. I found internet forum about 10 years ago, where M1 representative was answering question.
When ask question -why the oil generates high iron, the representative choose not to answer it.
Tru is that modern engines run for so many hundreds miles, that "not the best" oil will still have them running for long time. I am pretty sure even on cooking oil you could expect 200,000 miles before engine will develop problems, but again, my choice is not to be Guinea pig.
Brake pads here might not be similar sample as pads choice, just like tire choice is compromise.
MB usually puts soft pads for maximum braking power. Side effect is dust and shorter life.
I compromise for Akebono, who for slightly less braking power don't leave dust and last for hundreds thousands miles.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, you do own a Sprinter van? You mentioned that you drive Ford pick up truck and that you had an older Mercedes passenger vehicle? If that is true are you basing your comments solely on experience of those two mentioned vehicles? No disrespect by any means but even those oil tests that you attached to this thread aren't applying directly to the Ncv3 Sprinter. Not the same oil type.

Back to BeVo. That list is made by Mercedes-Benz to recommend fluids. To use exclusively the products listed in the mentioned overview, because only those products have been tested and approved by Mercedes-Benz. If approved by MB BeVo that means to me that particular product went through Mercedes-Benz engineers hands in their lab. Good enough for me.

Being guniea pig like you mentioned is working fine for me for the past 305k+ miles with my van. Don't remember if I ever paid for MB branded liquid. By choice I I'm using Valvoline Zerex G05 coolant, Valvoline Advanced MST 5W-30 or Mobil 1 ESP or rarely Pennzoil Platinum Euro L (depending on sale but always 229.51 MB approved engine oil). In my transmission you may find Fuchs Titan 4134 trans fluid, in rear differential currently I have Fuchs Titan Sintopoid ATF 75W-80 gear oil etc.

Majority of mentioned fluids might be off topic but to the point they are all MB BeVo approved and my vehicle functions well. That's all that I need to have my working van functional and operational by the MB book.

My experience and my personal preference.
 
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