BEWARE CCV - Colorado Camper Van Customer Experience

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
COLORADO CAMPER VAN REVIEW

This is going to be a little long winded, I think. I will try to be concise and not ramble.

I want to start by stating unequivocally that I spent a lot of time considering whether or not I was going to post anything about my experience with Colorado Camper Van. My top was installed in June 2017 and I am just posting this now. While I believe that social media can be a powerful tool for leveraging people and companies, I don't think the frequency that people use it for such is acceptable. At this point, I have given up on the idea that I will ever receive any type of restitution from Colorado Campervan (CCV) for the problems and issues I have had. I have also given up on any notion that CCV has any desire to make things right, support their product once it leaves their facility, or honor any kind of warranty. As such I am not writing this to try to compel CCV to do anything, but simply to inform prospective customers what they are getting into by commissioning any work from CCV.

I also want to lead with this: Had I known the issues I would encounter going in, would I still have given CCV my business. The answer is probably yes, but I will explain in detail as I go through this.

I also want to let everyone reading know that I am not alone in my experience. I have talked to other CCV top owners and the experience I will document here seems to be universal. My problems, issues and concerns are the rule as far as I can tell and not the exception. I know there are a couple of other members on this forum with the same experience as me and they may or may not chime in here at their discretion. Others are still seeking restitution from CCV and may not want to publicize the details of their issues before they are through with such efforts.

I spent right in the neighborhood of $12,000 with CCV. Its not a small amount of money. I am not rich, and it was not a small decision for me and my wife. For the money I spent I had expectations about quality, longevity, customer service and execution. None of these expectations were met.

I drove my van 1100 miles to Loveland CO and dropped it off before flying home. I was told it would take them 2 weeks to complete the work I was having commissioned. I asked multiple times if two weeks was enough time, telling them that I was flying back to Colorado, that I would be leaving from CCV on a vacation with the newly completed van, and that if the van was not finished when I arrived I would be stuck there with no vehicle and no accommodations. I was assured that the van would be done and I provided CCV with my return flight itinerary. The work I was having done was

1: CCV top with paint patch and arctic canvass
2: Maxxair Fan
3: Carefree of Colorado Awning with porch light

When I arrived at 11am (as they were fully aware I would) my van was nowhere near completion. The top was on its hardware and that was about it. My van still had an intact roof and headliner, the awning was not installed, the fan was not mounted to the top, and the canvas was not installed to the top/van.

As they rushed to get my van finished I looked on as they quickly and carelessly tried to complete my van. The owner of CCV, Derek dropped my awning while trying to mount it to the van. I would later discover that the reason he was having trouble mounting it and subsequently dropped it was because he was too hasty in drilling the holes to mount the brackets, that the front bracket was crooked and that my awning would be (and still is) installed so poorly that it would never close completely or correctly. They broke countless trim clips, scratched innumerable pieces of trim, and utterly destroyed the mounting tabs on my factory headliner such that it would never properly fit again.

I would later find:

1: that the canvas was installed too tight in two corners that would cause subsequent puncturing of the canvass when the top was up.
2: that they didnt clean up their metal shavings which subsequently rusted and permanently stained the paint in the gutters of my van
3: that they got black mastic all over the outside of the canvass and the paint of my van
4: that they did such a poor job sealing the holes from my original factory roof rails that it would subsequently leak water into my van and stain my headliner
5: that they did such a poor job of sealing the top to the van that voids were present almost the entire way around
5: that there was a hole where the canvass was not properly installed to the fiberglass top that I could see daylight though
6: that they did not relocate and reinstall my factory dome lights so I have no functional lights when I open the doors
6.1: That they did not even return the original lights so that I could resolve this issue for myself
7: that they left greasy fingerprints on my headliner which were nearly impossible to clean off
8: that they attempted to install one of the two latches that keeps the top closed 3 times and that the final install location of the latch was so bad that the latch does not properly close.
9: that they left a huge amount of mastic/sealant around the brackets for the awning
10: that besides installing the awning brackets at the wrong angle, they subsequently bent them trying to tighten them down against the curve of the van because they didnt fit right as they were mounted in the wrong place.
11: That the opening to the top was trimmed very poorly.
12: that the remote control for the top died after 2 weeks of use

I finally got out of CCV about 7pm, 8 hours after they had committed to being done with my van. Not a terrible length of time, but considering I had a 15 hour drive ahead of me, and that my wife was waiting for me with our 2 month old, 2 year old and my dog in my pickup truck at a campground in California, it was unacceptable. I was in such a rush to get on my way that I ignored the things about the top that I could see were a problem, thinking to myself that it would not be that big of a deal and I would be able to get Derek to take care of them at a later date.

Unfortunately I was wrong. I have called and emailed CCV dozens of times and have received but a single voicemail from Derek saying to call him back (which I have done many times now).

With the exception of the awning, most of the problems are within my personal ability to fix. I can purchase or make a new headliner, I have sealed up the leaks and the hole in the canvass, the remaining holes in the canvass can be patched when the time comes, I have cleaned most of he mastic up, replaced trim clips, I can buy and install new dome lights, etc etc.

To fix the awning I will have to have the holes in the van welded up and painted by a body shop (the best quote I have gotten for this is $1600). I will then have to have a new bracket fabricated by my machinist ($250) and powder-coated ($75). If I were not an engineer I would also have to have someone model the bracket in the first place (at my consulting rate it would have been $137.50 with a family and friends discount, $250 without) and then I will have to drill new holes, install new inserts and remount the bracket and awning.

Between the awning, canvass, re-sealing, headliner and other issues I will be out about $2500 and 12-15 hours of MY time (which would be another $1500--$1875 at CCV's shop rate) when it is all said and done.

So now you want to know, given all of that why would I have CCV install another top?

The answer is yes, because between the Sportsmobile pop top and the CCV top, the CCV wins for engineering, safety and usability hands down. I am a mechanical engineer and designer and despite SMB's marketing spew about being a Mercedes Benz authorized up-fitter and doing a roof crush test on their top, I personally would rather my children ride in a van with a CCV top from a safety perspective. All of the roof hoop supports are left intact with the CCV (A pillar B pillar etc) whereas SMB removes them. From a usability perspective, I have been in my van with the top up and 40-50mph sustained winds with gusts to 70mph without the slightest concern. I have seen first hand this is not possible with a SMB top. The bed in my top with my aftermarket mattress is a Full size bed (54" x 74") versus 42" x 70" in the SMB. Someone who is 6' or taller can sit up Indian style in the CCV top with 40" of headroom, whereas anyone over about 4'10" cant sit up straight in the SMB. The CCV is available with insulated canvass. Everything from the remote control ceiling lights to the robust linear actuators is more thoroughly sorted on the CCV than the equipment on the SMB in my opinion.

At the end of the day I am pissed about how much money I spend and what I got in return (a headache and problems to go with my very cool CCV top), but I would do it again. However, I would tell CCV that I would be there in 2 weeks and book my return flight for 4 weeks out. I would also book a hotel room for that night and set aside enough time to thoroughly walk through the van, find any and all issues and then leave CCV without my credit card leaving my pocket while they resolved all issues to my satisfaction.

Derek does not know how to run a business IMHO, he doesn't understand customer service, is overbooked and has poor attention to detail in his execution. However, he did design and develop a great product that with a little install care would be top notch. I believe they have the ability to assemble a well executed van, but I think you have to give them the time to do so, and allow that it is much longer than they will allot for.

I will answer any questions that anyone may have as fairly and as honestly as I can.

Happy Pop Top Shopping,
Brian
 
Thanks for a very well thought out right up. As you stated, your not the first to experience such install issues. I would also agree with you on the better design.
 

marc1

Member
Thanks for the detailed write up Brian. Like I mentioned to you last week when I picked up the Hitch, for the price these Vendors charge for a Pop Top, I can ship my van to the U.K, (only one way though) and have a top like ED643 done for less than what these guys are charging and make a vacation out of it. Food for thought.
 

ENMeyer

Active member
I walked through their shop and one of their vans a few years back and had the impression that they do not do very detailed, meticulous work. Shop was a mess and their finished van had a lot of sloppy work very obvious in my quick inspection of the van.

It stinks to have buyer's remorse, but at least some of us reading this will learn some lessons about choosing an upfitter.
 
ORH, thanks for that detailed write up! Damn engineers, they're sticklers for details :)
Having met Brian and seen his rig, I can attest to his issues. And having a CCV pop top done just after ORH had his completed, I can tell you my experience mirrors his. I feel lucky in that some of his issues are worse than mine (like the awning install!!!) but we both ran into the same schite at the shop i.e. showing up at a designated time only to find guys still working on the van, stuff strewn all over, etc., etc.
Then there's the absolute no response from Derek or anyone at CCV when it came time to get things fixed. At first, messages were returned but now, absolute radio silence. And for me it was more than just warranty items. I've even talked to folks who wanted to get quotes and schedule an install but got no response.
Like Brian, I did a lot of research on both SMB and CCV. At first I loved the low pro look of the SMB penthouse, but then met a few owners that had horror stories (some posted here) about QC, durability, etc. I then saw Slammit's posts and was jazzed to see there was another game in town that offered a more robust and roomier alternative. I even cruised down and took a look at Korey's van and watched him swing on the lifting bars like it was a jungle gym. I was impressed with the overall work, including the insulated curtains, control panel installed neatly under the passenger seat, lights in the top, etc. At that time, Korey was the SoCal CCV rep, and I was talking to a young guy named Matt at CCV. Questions got answered right away, correspondence was professional; sign me up! Nothing to worry about; right?
Matt is long gone and I can imagine why. But not before I ponied up almost 5K in upfront deposits and scheduled my install 7 months out and for a two week install session. OK, SMB was 5 months out, only took 3 days to install and asked for 200 bucks up front, but hey, i'm getting a better product, properly installed (as they are taking their time) and I'm gonna love the drive to CO and back.
Like Brian and as I mentioned above, not done when I showed up for scheduled pick up. FOr the 13K I invested in all of this I expected to see my completed van sitting outside, washed and totally cleaned up inside, and Derek offering up a beer as he showed me how to work everything. OK, maybe that's a bit much, but having to ask the shop guys to vac up metal shavings and dirt and sawdust and give me back parts they took out seemed kinda stupid, on their part...
And like ORH, I expected that 2 weeks was more than enough time to get it all done and squared away, so I set my schedule accordingly, figuring I could start my drive baxk to CA the day I picked up the van, which I had to due to biz commitments and a small family emergency. So around 6pm I finally get on the road, and make a stop to pick up supplies. Upon opening the back door to load said supplies, I notice that control panel that had been so neatly placed under Korey's seat, screwed to the inner sheet metal behind the rear wheel well with out so much as a peice of plywood for a safety cover? Hot buss, relays, etc, just waiting to get shorted or crushed the first time something bangs into it.
Little did I know that was just the beginning...

Sometime in the near future I hope to do a build thread and include pictures of my pop top, issues and good stuff as well. Because like Brian if I had to do it all over again, I would go with the CCV over SMB again, but I would go about it much differently (ah, the old 20/20 hindsight;).

Being in the boat biz, attention to detail in my work is paramount for not only the cosmetic aspects, but also for the safety of life and vessels at sea. Like Derek, my work doesn't come cheap, so my customers expect that sort of finish quality and I'm happy to give it! And while a 60K van isn't the same as a multi million dollar yacht, the end result should be the same; no? Maybe I should go into the pop top biz :)
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Bob, I just sent you an email back addressing your questions. Give me a call or shoot me an email back and let me know your thoughts.
 
ORH, thanks for that detailed write up! Damn engineers, they're sticklers for details :)
Having met Brian and seen his rig, I can attest to his issues. And having a CCV pop top done just after ORH had his completed, I can tell you my experience mirrors his. I feel lucky in that some of his issues are worse than mine (like the awning install!!!) but we both ran into the same schite at the shop i.e. showing up at a designated time only to find guys still working on the van, stuff strewn all over, etc., etc.
Then there's the absolute no response from Derek or anyone at CCV when it came time to get things fixed. At first, messages were returned but now, absolute radio silence. And for me it was more than just warranty items. I've even talked to folks who wanted to get quotes and schedule an install but got no response.
Like Brian, I did a lot of research on both SMB and CCV. At first I loved the low pro look of the SMB penthouse, but then met a few owners that had horror stories (some posted here) about QC, durability, etc. I then saw Slammit's posts and was jazzed to see there was another game in town that offered a more robust and roomier alternative. I even cruised down and took a look at Korey's van and watched him swing on the lifting bars like it was a jungle gym. I was impressed with the overall work, including the insulated curtains, control panel installed neatly under the passenger seat, lights in the top, etc. At that time, Korey was the SoCal CCV rep, and I was talking to a young guy named Matt at CCV. Questions got answered right away, correspondence was professional; sign me up! Nothing to worry about; right?
Matt is long gone and I can imagine why. But not before I ponied up almost 5K in upfront deposits and scheduled my install 7 months out and for a two week install session. OK, SMB was 5 months out, only took 3 days to install and asked for 200 bucks up front, but hey, i'm getting a better product, properly installed (as they are taking their time) and I'm gonna love the drive to CO and back.
Like Brian and as I mentioned above, not done when I showed up for scheduled pick up. FOr the 13K I invested in all of this I expected to see my completed van sitting outside, washed and totally cleaned up inside, and Derek offering up a beer as he showed me how to work everything. OK, maybe that's a bit much, but having to ask the shop guys to vac up metal shavings and dirt and sawdust and give me back parts they took out seemed kinda stupid, on their part...
And like ORH, I expected that 2 weeks was more than enough time to get it all done and squared away, so I set my schedule accordingly, figuring I could start my drive baxk to CA the day I picked up the van, which I had to due to biz commitments and a small family emergency. So around 6pm I finally get on the road, and make a stop to pick up supplies. Upon opening the back door to load said supplies, I notice that control panel that had been so neatly placed under Korey's seat, screwed to the inner sheet metal behind the rear wheel well with out so much as a peice of plywood for a safety cover? Hot buss, relays, etc, just waiting to get shorted or crushed the first time something bangs into it.
Little did I know that was just the beginning...

Sometime in the near future I hope to do a build thread and include pictures of my pop top, issues and good stuff as well. Because like Brian if I had to do it all over again, I would go with the CCV over SMB again, but I would go about it much differently (ah, the old 20/20 hindsight;).

Being in the boat biz, attention to detail in my work is paramount for not only the cosmetic aspects, but also for the safety of life and vessels at sea. Like Derek, my work doesn't come cheap, so my customers expect that sort of finish quality and I'm happy to give it! And while a 60K van isn't the same as a multi million dollar yacht, the end result should be the same; no? Maybe I should go into the pop top biz :)
Maybe I missed it in your post, how/what would you do differently? My van is scheduled to go in in the 12th for a top.
 

levinro

2016 Sprinter 144" 4x4
I'm having trouble getting my head around these terrible experiences described here concluding with "I'd do it all over again". :bash:

I'm not well versed in pop-tops, but if the CCV pop-top itself is what you are after, can you buy it and have a good upfitter do the work?

I outsourced a few relatively small jobs to a local upfitter. The work was done when promised. The van washed and ready to go when it was done. I later had a warranty issue, they responded with "when can you bring in the van so we can fix it?". They have a 6 month backlog of work, they put me at the front of the line. This outfit is also relatively young and experiencing tremendous growth but is able to treat customers with respect and do quality work. This is the type of experience I would expect to conclude with "I'd do it all over again".
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
I'm having trouble getting my head around these terrible experiences described here concluding with "I'd do it all over again". :bash:

I'm not well versed in pop-tops, but if the CCV pop-top itself is what you are after, can you buy it and have a good upfitter do the work?

I outsourced a few relatively small jobs to a local upfitter. The work was done when promised. The van washed and ready to go when it was done. I later had a warranty issue, they responded with "when can you bring in the van so we can fix it?". They have a 6 month backlog of work, they put me at the front of the line. This outfit is also relatively young and experiencing tremendous growth but is able to treat customers with respect and do quality work. This is the type of experience I would expect to conclude with "I'd do it all over again".
I completely agree and understand where you are coming from, but as you say you are not well versed in pop tops. In the US there are two options, and by all accounts there are just as many people pissed with sportsmobile who has been around for decades. Its a coin toss for quality and customer service, so it comes down to design and engineering. And from a design and engineering perspective, the SMB top is a bit of a joke against the CCV top. These are just my humble opinions and I am not trying to ruffle any feathers of SMB top owners.

I dont want to speak for Vanzer Pagen, but from conversations with him he would do much the same thing as me. Give them more time, and then maybe give them a little more time. Also book some accommodations for the day you are picking up if you are traveling a great distance in case there are issues you want resolved. This will give them some time and grace to fix them to your satisfaction and you will not feel rushed or like you have to accept something which you are not ok with because of time constraints.

UPDATE:
Derek reached out to me after I posted this and is interested in resolving these issues for me. As I asserted in my first post, I believe that my problems amount to him being overbooked, having more demand then capacity as he tries to get his business going, and not being exceptionally talented at the nuts and bolts of running a business. Business owners will know that there is a difference between being good at what you do and being good at running your business.

I am going to be out in CO at the end of February which puts me within 2 hours of CCV. Derek is going to try to work with my to get my issues resolved at that time. I will be sure to document how everything goes here for full transparency.
 
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Roadtripr

New member
I look forward to hear what the outcome of this will be. It was is quite disappointing to read about your problems. I saw one of the builds at Slamits place and I was quite impressed. I wanted to build a van with ample room to sleep 4 using a CCV pop up. If the quality of the workmanship drops too much I would rather look at other options, but sleeping 4 in a regular 144 (even high roof) seems hard.
 

Dave D

Active member
In the US there are two options, and by all accounts there are just as many people pissed with sportsmobile who has been around for decades. Its a coin toss for quality and customer service, so it comes down to design and engineering. And from a design and engineering perspective, the SMB top is a bit of a joke against the CCV top. These are just my humble opinions and I am not trying to ruffle any feathers of SMB top owners.

Hey Hamster,

Not getting my feathers too ruffled, but thought I’d speak up as I don’t think your comparison about the coin toss between SMB and CCV service or engineering is very accurate. Our SMB top has performed great, no leaks, misalignments, mechanicals, and they actually got it done in 2.5 days as I stuck around in a hotel and got to stop by and see progress. SMB has installed hundreds of more tops than CCV, who I think has only been installing these tops for about a year. They have the process down, including their custom brackets for the Fiamma awning they installed. Service was friendly and efficient and they always answer the phone. I have read a few reports of SMB top issues, but maybe 5-10% of installs, and not the universally bad CCV experiences you are describing. I can’t imagine considering a SMB purchase if they had all the problems CCV seems to have.

There are times I wish I had the headroom over the bed of the CCV (my SMB bed length and width are about the same as your CCV), but I really like being able to have standing headroom all the way to the back of the van and the fact that it only increases the van height a few inches when down. We discussed some of the pluses and minuses of each top in your build thread before you got the CCV, so no need to elaborate here. Hope CCV makes good on fixing the issues you have had.

 
I'll try to hit on a few of the questions I see here, at least from my point of view.
First, "doing it differently" would be giving CCV AND yourself enough time to make sure everything is done right. I would plan to show up after the alloted 2 weeks, have a room booked in locally (in Loveland, not a bad little town) and a rental car to get around. Go to the shop; if they are still working on your van, ask when they expect to be done. I would guess the answer will be "today by closing" (what I got). At that point, tell them you'll be back tomorrow at noon to inspect, and politely ask that it be cleaned up and ready. Then go find some good food and beer (Grimm Brothers for German style brews;) Another good approach would be to call the day your van is supposed to be ready and tell them you can't pick it up for several days. Either way, allow yourself, and CCV more time. And by all means allow your self AT LEAST one day to go test drive the work and take a real close look at it. And a day for them to correct any mistakes or fully document what needs to be done.
BOTTOM LINE: Don't leave until you are completely sure everything is done to your satisfaction. As mentioned above in both ORH's and my posts, we scheduled ourselves tightly assuming that all would be right and we'd leave the shop under a rainbow held up by unicorns. In my case, Derek asked me to come back in a few hours. My buddy took me to Grimm bros and I came back with beer goggles... bad idea! And I had to be back in SoCal in 3 days, 'nuther bad idea.

Roadtripr, et al: Realize that Slammit is CCV's rep and it's not his first rodeo. He knows Derek and all the folks at the shop, knows exactly what to ask and look for and how to get everything done right. Also, he does most of the finish work, and I will give him a big nod for detail, he's been doing vans a long time. So yeah, his stuff will look good!

There used to be a guy named Scott here in SoCal that reportedly did warranty work for CCV here, I'm working on tracking him down. There's also a rumor of another pop top company getting started with a focus on large format (Sprinter, Transit, Promaster) vans. I'm working on tracking them down as well. Feel free to DM me if you want to be kept up to date.

One last thing: We've all known folks who have a good product but terrible business acumen. They manage to bumble along in spite of themselves because the product design is good, and they are usually great people. If you ever meet Derek, you'll have a hard time not liking the guy. personally, I'd like to hang out with him on an extended trip, beer drinking session, or just working with him. That's why I would go CCV again, unless that other company "pops" up (sorry, couldn't resist ;)

Hope everyone (you too Derek) has a great weekend! I'm gonna go back to working on my van, riding my mountain bike, and drinking beer. Maybe even in that order!
 

tegan_ca

Build Planning
Thank you to ORH, VP, and Dave D for first hand experiences. I'm trying to get up the $$ and gumption to cut a big hole in my new 4x4 and stuff like this is invaluable to the community IMO.

Vanzer, I'm interested in any info you have on that new pop top shop.
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
Maybe I missed it in your post, how/what would you do differently? My van is scheduled to go in in the 12th for a top.
From a dispassionate Crow, who does not have a van in this fight......

I'd cancel out of a CCV install. Ask for any coin to be refunded......
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Sadly I have seen two other reports of similar results. Poor installs, and damage to vehicle. Followed by attempts to hide the damage, blaming the customer, and other excuses like: Its an old van (a Astro/safari), or, you were fine with it at the shop (at 10pm in the dark, rushed etc). One poster had a lower volume top, and it had major gelcoat flaws over 2 feet long, and actually prevented the passenger door from opening due to misfit. I saw email correspondence with the owner which was very unprofessional, and claimed the customer intentionally damaged the top/hinge etc.

To many red flags in my opinion. If a owner won't stand behind their product, then nothing else really matters.
 

Motodisiac

Moto Terrorist
Imho if a shop is doing a sloppy job, they will never change, regardless of how much time you give them to get things done right. They just don't have any pride of their craftsmanship, period. A hack once is always a hack.
 

OffroadHamster

Well-known member
Motodisiac- CCV has put together some clean vans, they had a full conversion ready to ship to a customer who rents them out when I was there. I could find no problems with it.

Something to consider, the two people who have said they would do it again are 1: Someone who is a craftsman in a high end boating market and industry here in southern California and 2: another who is a picky, persnickety detail oriented engineer.

I am not going to argue with anyone about their personal experience with SMB. I have personally seen some very shoddy work from them and I dont care for the design, comparative safety, truck bed like coating or performance in high winds. Ive also run into people who have been so turned off by their customer service they shopped elsewhere.

Yes, my top had some fit and finish problems, and frankly I was and still am fairly irked about it. Even more irked at the painful communication process. However, I've not seen many professionally put together vans that I didnt personally have a problem with from a fit and finish standpoint. Dont ever invite me into your house or your car as I am likely to point out flaws that you have spent years staring at and never seen. Just the nature of my work and personality.

At the end of the day, I wanted to inform people about what they were getting into. If it is worth it for them, I say do it. However if after hearing this, you want to run the other way, then do that. I find honest reviews invaluable when spending large amounts of money. Better to go in knowing as much as you can. I had read a pretty awful review of CCV before purchasing my top. I knew full well how bad it could be and I accepted the risks, hoping for a better experience. For the most part it the experience sucked, but what I ended up with is mostly awesome with a few sucky parts. I have a kick ass van. EVERYONE wants to talk to me about the van, and the top. I cant county how many gas stations Ive popped the top at at someones request.

Its absolutely sick. Ive been in driving rain, crazy wind, copious amounts of snow, low teens temps, and always slept like a baby. Its built like a tank, its huge, its comfortable, it isnt coated in line-x, I still have all of the rollover structures in the van. Generally Im happy. If you want to save yourself the largest headache that a couple of us have had, pass on their awning solution.
 
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HighPockets

Active member
You male chauvinist pigs - you need some girls in the pix.:bounce: To balance it out use ALL girls in the next pix. Suggest a good Florida beech at Spring Break for suitable subjects.:thumbup: You're welcome.
P.S. If you insist on the silly signs please make sure they don't cover up any good scenery.:lol:

Gene (been indoors too long this winter):hmmm:
 

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