T1N 647 Engine Water Coolant Pump Replacement

jsimson

New member
I guess I got my "bales knocked off"! One week from now I will be miles from the nearest internet connection and the world will be a safer place for it. Thank you for letting me know how idiotic I was with such good cheer and grace. I could have saved the expense and labor of changing out all that lovely "green" coolant just by not Googling a damn thing! And I thought I'd already learned most of life's important lessons. Cheers!
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Sorry if I offended you!
You've got caught up in basic workshop humour and the Brit propensity of taking the pi$$!
This level of sub culture is parts of the Anglo American mechanics banter in workshops.

:cheers:Dennis
 

jsimson

New member
No, you didn't offend me. You just woke me up to my own foolishness! Funny thing is, I've been teaching my 16 year old how to avoid the pitfalls of doing research using the internet. I fell into, probably the most basic pit! Will I tell her about her old dad's foolery?
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Sure. Why not?

Now let's get back to OM647 Water Pump Replacements.

:cheers: vic

P.S. - I meander often too. Sometimes any of us need a nudge back to topic. Me included. :hugs:
Yes and don't fit an aftermarket paper gasket! It reduces the impeller run clearances in the case.
Some have been known to rub/bind when hot and not pump properly .
Remedy
Use the factory steel gasket..
Dennis
 

Gaspiper

Active member
After reading Vic's detailed instructions I ventured into changing my original H2O Pump with an OEM unit from Benz and everything went smooth and well !!! I am so glad to have found this forum it is a wealth of information . Took me from start to finish 2.5 hours in a 100 F weather of today . I was able to make new threads for the idle pulley using a brand new OEM bolt and some grease , piece of cake ( Thank You DR. A)
Thank you Vic
 

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cahaak

New member
Had to replace my water pump again at 295K. It was a gates that I had put in at about 160K. So I got about 135K on the gates pump. I put in another gates pump and this time I put in a new Victor Reinz gasket, which is the metal / rubber combination. I also replaced the viscous fan clutch since I was in there. I did not replace the belt, but I carry a spare and I can change the belt now in about 5 minutes from under the van. I was losing coolant and had to keep topping it off once a week. I couldn't exactly see where the coolant was leaking, but assumed that it was the water pump, but I tightened up all of the hose clamps on the system just to make sure. I used the same approach that I noted earlier in this thread, removing the top bar across the radiators and completely removing the fan shroud and then taking the pump out with the manifold attached. Lots of room to do this and reassemble and then 1 gal of G05 and almost 1 gal of DI water. I actually cracked the top of the fan shroud when removing it, so I taped it up with some special glass fiber reinforced duct tape after I put it back in. I had a lot of oil all over the front portion of the engine, not sure where it is coming from, so I degreased and washed the engine off as best as I could. I'm not really losing much for oil, so I'm not sure where it is all coming from, but I hadn't cleaned the engine off in about 3 years. I just threaded the bolt into the idler pulley once the pump was installed. Just used my ratchet since I had so much room.

Assuming the pump works like the last one, that should be the last one for the van, if I can get it up to 400K miles that will likely be it. Engine is working great, but the body is going to become a rust bucket and I'm not up for all the work or $ it is going to take to fix it.

Chris
 

cousi

New member
We replaced the water pump yesterday, but also replaced the radiator, hoses and thermostat.
Here is a picture of the radiator and all the debris trapped in the radiator.
The radiator was replaced because the reservoir was cracked and the pump had weeped. All
pulleys, tensioner and belt were replaced with the HB last year. Should've just done the pump
at the same time.
 

quillaja

2004 2500 140WB high roof
Re: T1N OM647 Engine Water Pump Replacement

A) The fan's center bolt was not 8mm allen, but T50.

I found it much easier to work on removing the fan's viscous clutch by FIRST removing the fan itself. It is held on by 3 torx screws.
Not a big deal, but I wanted to correct 2 mistakes and couldn't edit my post anymore. Fan center bolt is 8mm allen and fan blades are 5mm allen--neither are torx. I used torx to remove because it "fit" when I couldn't see the bolts.
 

danpaul000

A man, a van, no plan
Thanks for all the great info everybody. I just replaced the water pump (and viscous clutch and thermostat) on my 2005 this weekend.

The water pump from Europarts came with a metal gasket for the attached metal pipe, and a paper gasket for the water pump body mating to the engine block. I bolted it on using the provided paper gasket, but have yet to put the fan or shroud back on.

I am wondering (After re-reading some of the comments here) if I should pull the pump off again and get my hands on a metal gasket instead before buttoning up the front end.

The original metal gasket that I removed with the previous water pump had a ridge 1mm or so in height that ran along the whole shape of the gasket. The previous pump had a divot in the machined surface that would mate with this ridge in the gasket. The new gasket and new pump do not have this geometry.

Given that discrepancy, would it be possible/advisable to put the old gasket on the new pump? I did not have any leaking on the old pump that I know of, just replaced it as a preventative. Does anyone have any good/neutral things to say about the paper gaskets reliability or longevity?

Thanks,
Dan
 

Dougflas

DAD OWNER
I have recently gone thru the same thing. It was during the July 4th weekend and I waited for the metal gasket. I did not want to do this job twice.
 

220629

Well-known member
...

Given that discrepancy, would it be possible/advisable to put the old gasket on the new pump? I did not have any leaking on the old pump that I know of, just replaced it as a preventative. Does anyone have any good/neutral things to say about the paper gaskets reliability or longevity?

Thanks,
Dan
I'm not certain about the divot/ridge.

A professional shop would not do this. With DIY I have had good success.

Assuming the metal gasket properly matches the new pump body, I would re-use the steel gasket. My method would be to lightly coat the used gasket both sides with Permatex #2 non-hardening sealant. I always have Permatex #2 on hand. An alternative would be a thin coat of Permatex Ultra Blue sealant (which I also keep on hand) or similar.

For my water pump change I re-used the small steel gasket by applying the above method.

:2cents: vic

Yes and don't fit an aftermarket paper gasket! It reduces the impeller run clearances in the case.
Some have been known to rub/bind when hot and not pump properly .
Remedy
Use the factory steel gasket..
Dennis
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
As a general statement there is nothing wrong with paper or fiber gaskets, they are universal in the industry.
Now with that stated the steel gasket when crushed is designed for the water pump impeller to have a precise slip condition as it runs with a FIXED clearance against the timing cover parent housing.
What I have seen is that using paper aftermarket gaskets CAN cause a reduction in slip clearances and the impeller has been in contact against the case. This causes bind/ wear/ and excess friction slowing of the pump when working.
Dennis
 

danpaul000

A man, a van, no plan
As a general statement there is nothing wrong with paper or fiber gaskets, they are universal in the industry.
Now with that stated the steel gasket when crushed is designed for the water pump impeller to have a precise slip condition as it runs with a FIXED clearance against the timing cover parent housing.
What I have seen is that using paper aftermarket gaskets CAN cause a reduction in slip clearances and the impeller has been in contact against the case. This causes bind/ wear/ and excess friction slowing of the pump when working.
Dennis
Thanks Dennis. Is there any good way to test for this condition? I assume this would be caused by either over or under-torqueing the water pump housing bolts, which would impact how crushed the paper gasket becomes. Other than making sure the pump pulley still rotates smoothly when turned by hand, is there anything else to check?

Regards,
Dan
 

danpaul000

A man, a van, no plan
I took another look at the old metal gasket that was used in the original water pump. It looks (as best I can tell) to be identical to this one for sale at Europaparts:

https://www.europaparts.com/water-pump-gasket-6112010280.html

Notice the ridge in the middle of the perimeter. The new water pump I installed from Europarts came with a paper gasket, which has no such ridge, though it is a bit thicker overall than the sheet metal used in the original metal version (designed to crush down, as per Dennis).

The original pump had some kind of sealant laid down on the machined mating surface to make a tight fit around the metal ridge. I mistakenly thought the old pump had a mating divot for the gasket ridge machined out, wrong! Probably should have saved the beers until the job was entirely done this weekend.

Anyway, I am wondering if I should remove the new pump and order the metal gasket, and replace the paper gasket with the metal gasket? If so, what sealant product should I apply to the pump mating surface? I have the new pump bolted in, but the fan, shroud and belt are still out so I can remove the new pump pretty easily at this point. I'd rather finish the done right and not have to worry about it for another 200k miles!

Cheers,
Dan
 

Dougflas

DAD OWNER
If I were you, I would use only the metal gasket. You put that on dry without any sealant. I went thru that with Europarts in July. They were at that time not aware the shipped gasket was not metal. I used a metal gasket. No problems as of this time.
 

04 freightliner

hairy chin
I tackled the removal and install of the water pump yesterday... everything went well, took 7.5h and that was with me taking my time and enjoying pulling wrench... I took the condenser and swung it to the side, took the turbo intercooler off and undid the bottom rad hose to swing out the rad enough to give me plenty of room to do the job. I saved lots of hassles not having to undo the rad completely in my opinion. I used oem water pump from Mercedes which looked to be alot better build then the after market cheap bearing style... came with the aluminum gasket, absoulty worth the extra money going the oem route. Cheers all
 

slomoracing

2004 Sprinter 2500 140”
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this post, my belt and pump replacement almost went entirely without a hitch thanks to these thorough write-ups.

I just wanted to add a couple of tips I found through error in this process.

1. Look at this video to have a tour of everything you will encounter if you have a 647 engine.

https://youtu.be/1Fqlm9_sw-o

The sound track isn't fantastic but overall I give it a solid B

2. If you touch a hose I would recommend replacing it unless you know it has been replaced. I replaced all hoses but one and the only one I didn't replace had a pinhole in it due to a lame clamp design/hose being bloated and worn out. Had to wait for a new hose to come in from Europarts to be able to go on long drives....

3. The torx on the water-pump pulley are loctited I believe. I strip the head of only one out before blasting the others with a torch. After the torch they all came out easily.

4. Replace the thermostat...mine was pitted on the gasket flange and definitely would have begun to leak soon. Taking the oil filter out and covering with tin foil to pull away the fuel lines makes this simple.

That is it folks, thanks for all the help.
 

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