T1N 647 Engine Water Coolant Pump Replacement

seans

Member
I'm still looking for one of the earlier posters (or anyone) who has disconnected the tranny lines so they can swing the radiator out for a better view of the engine, whether they get a drip or a geyser of tranny fluid, and what tricks they use (if geyser) to plug the pipes temporarily. (I can think of plenty of ways to plug them, but would rather hear someone else's better idea.)

Hi talkinghorse,

I found out that disconnecting the metal tubes at the radiator is a Bad Idea by searching before I made my original post:

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3168
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8406

Autophysn doesn't say it directly in his very informative post earlier in this thread, but his instructions about using a 17mm and 19mm wrench can only be done where the metal tube meets the rubber tube. [I'm pretty sure he means #3 and #4 in the image below.] If you are very careful holding the 17mm wrench steady, the torque applied on that tube when loosening the 19mm tube should be minimal, and because of the length of the tube, the fittings on the radiator should be fine (crosses fingers).

TrannyCoolerDisconnect.jpg

In fact I've loosened one of these a little (#3 - it went pretty well) and before things started leaking I decided to go inside and Ask The Sprinterweb.

[Edit: #4 - mostly hidden in photo - was VERY tight and I've left it connected for now. I'm not touching #1 and #2 (hidden behind tube) because of the posts above.]

But I'd like to hear from someone who has disconnected the radiator to get a clear view of the components at the front of the engine. I want to see if I have a leaky high pressure fuel pump, or cracks in my harmonic balancer*, which is why I want to get the radiator out of the way and get a good look, directly, cleaning parts and eyeballing it, using a magnifying glass to look for cracks (which is a sucky way to detect fatigue - anyone got a better idea for a part in place?)

*[Edit: After re-reading the Harmonic Balancer thread and being reminded of the failure mode where the balancer shears off around the washer, I'm not going to count on being able to see cracks beforehand.]
 
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talkinghorse43

Active member
If you're going to do this to replace your water pump, then I would make sure to install a MB genuine part. I (and others) have had bad luck with the Meyle brand aftermarket one (bought from Europarts). I've had to replace the pump 3 times to date (2 Meyles) and it's not a job I like to do. I thought I had cracks in my harmonic balancer and the good Doktor did too (looked like it), but when he got it out and a new one in there, I cut the old one apart on many planes and could not find a crack - I don't hold out much hope for visual inspection. BTW, the good Doktor did't even swing the radiator out of the way to replace my harmonic balancer, but yours might be different since it's the 2-belt version.
 
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seans

Member
Autophysn's instructions, earlier in this thread, for preparing the vehicle for work - including removing the bumper - gives you lots of room to work! Even if you don't remove the transmission fluid lines and don't swing the radiator out of the way!

ViewFromVanFront.jpg

I set up an inspection camera, using an Android cell phone with HDMI output and a 12 volt HDTV from CVS, to look for cracks in the harmonic balancer.

InspectionCameraDetail.jpgInspectionCameraDetail2.jpg

Here especially you can see how much room there is to work. The camera works OK for inspecting the harmonic balancer, but The camera does not work well for identifying drips (diesel, coolant, etc.) Thus I still want to move the radiator aside so I can clean everything up and do a thorough visual inspection.

For example, I would not have been able to tell from the camera image alone that this is fresh coolant - it was only apparent from direct visual inspection.

WaterPumpPulley.jpg

[Edit: I successfully loosened one of the transmission cooler hose connectors - and it did not leak transmission fluid - but the other would not budge so I decided to stop instead of force it. I'm not touching the fittings on the radiator (see post #43 above).]

[Edit: I'm no longer counting on being able to visually detect an imminent harmonic balancer failure, and Doktor A's 85K mile replacement recommendation sounds like a good idea.]
 
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glasseye

Well-known member
Amazing! :cheers: I was asking myself "what's that computer monitor showing?"
 

220629

Well-known member
I personally don't think that removing the radiator and many other parts is necessary to change the pump, or a good idea because you are disturbing so many unrelated items which can create other problems. The problems can be significant on vehicles which live through northeast winters and road salt. I've kept my opinion to myself about this because getting better access may be worthwhile to some people.

Since the subject is now under discussion...
One Achilles heal which I worried about is the transmission fittings. If you screw those up you may be facing a radiator replacement. Extra $$$$. FWIW. vic
 

Ciprian

Spark Plugs not allowed!
If you're going to do this to replace your water pump, then I would make sure to install a MB genuine part. I (and others) have had bad luck with the Meyle brand aftermarket one (bought from Europarts). I've had to replace the pump 3 times to date (2 Meyles) and it's not a job I like to do. I thought I had cracks in my harmonic balancer and the good Doktor did too (looked like it), but when he got it out and a new one in there, I cut the old one apart on many planes and could not find a crack - I don't hold out much hope for visual inspection. BTW, the good Doktor did't even swing the radiator out of the way to replace my harmonic balancer, but yours might be different since it's the 2-belt version.
TH,

I talked the other day with Steve from Europarts and he said that he dropped Meyle water pumps and Ina tensioners because of failures. I also replaced 2 Meyles and they leaked after 15k miles or so. Good to hear that they dropped them. I didn't get what brand he replaced them with, but hopefully they are better quality.
 

cahaak

New member
I'm about 18K into a gates waterpump. Have not had any issues so far. These are not very complicated animals, they should last a long time.

Chris
 

coalminer

New member
When I changed my water pump on my 05, I bought it from Autozone, they usually do have one in stock at their hub store, but not every store. 109.99 was the price, it did have the little gasket for the inlet tube. One nice thing about Autozone, lifetime warranty on it. I have about 20k on my pump now, will see how long it lasts.
 

Coast2Coast

2006 158 Cargo
for those who have used OEM does anyone know who makes the OEM mercedes water pump?



RBM Mercedes in Atlanta seems to say (647 200 01 01) water pump is made by abrigo (italy)


Turns out Gates is "made in china" so I've decided to stay away from that one.
 
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abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
for those who have used OEM does anyone know who makes the OEM mercedes water pump?



RBM Mercedes in Atlanta seems to say (647 200 01 01) water pump is made by abrigo (italy)
The OEM water pump is German made with a hard to read logo I do not recognize and it has a MBenz part number cast on the front.

I believe MBenz no longer has the 647 water pump available as a new replacement. It is now a reman with core charge.

The 612 water pump is still available as a new part but has substantially gone up in price.

Doktor A
 

Sasha2006

New member
Re: T1N OM647 Engine Water Pump Replacement

"Keep the fan/viscous clutch upright when you store it. Do not lay it flat."

what is the reason for keeping the viscos clutch upright? I purchased a new one, so I am wondering if this would apply?
 

220629

Well-known member
Re: T1N OM647 Engine Water Pump Replacement

"Keep the fan/viscous clutch upright when you store it. Do not lay it flat."

what is the reason for keeping the viscos clutch upright? I purchased a new one, so I am wondering if this would apply?
Good question. When they come in the box they can get tumbled all over can't they?

After the the unit has been in use if you lay the unit down the fluid can migrate to the wrong places and make the clutch operate incorrectly.

My guess is that when they come new in the box the thermostatic valve is held closed (or the fluid is otherwise contained) during the ambient temperatures found while shipping. That keeps the fluid in a specific area. After the fan is put into service the engine temperatures get high enough to open the valve and distribute the fluid into other passages. From then on you will be in the same boat with keeping it in an upright position. That is a guess based upon the operation of the fan clutch design. vic
 

lightguy

Member
Idler pulley bolt hole was different diameter (too big) on my recent H2O pump replacement FROM the DODGE DEALER ! OReileys too.
Mercedes dealer pump worked fine.
 

Autophysn

New member
I'm still looking for one of the earlier posters (or anyone) who has disconnected the tranny lines so they can swing the radiator out for a better view of the engine, whether they get a drip or a geyser of tranny fluid, and what tricks they use (if geyser) to plug the pipes temporarily. (I can think of plenty of ways to plug them, but would rather hear someone else's better idea.)

Hi talkinghorse,

I found out that disconnecting the metal tubes at the radiator is a Bad Idea by searching before I made my original post:

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3168
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8406

Autophysn doesn't say it directly in his very informative post earlier in this thread, but his instructions about using a 17mm and 19mm wrench can only be done where the metal tube meets the rubber tube. [I'm pretty sure he means #3 and #4 in the image below.] If you are very careful holding the 17mm wrench steady, the torque applied on that tube when loosening the 19mm tube should be minimal, and because of the length of the tube, the fittings on the radiator should be fine (crosses fingers).

View attachment 50447

In fact I've loosened one of these a little (#3 - it went pretty well) and before things started leaking I decided to go inside and Ask The Sprinterweb.

[Edit: #4 - mostly hidden in photo - was VERY tight and I've left it connected for now. I'm not touching #1 and #2 (hidden behind tube) because of the posts above.]

But I'd like to hear from someone who has disconnected the radiator to get a clear view of the components at the front of the engine. I want to see if I have a leaky high pressure fuel pump, or cracks in my harmonic balancer*, which is why I want to get the radiator out of the way and get a good look, directly, cleaning parts and eyeballing it, using a magnifying glass to look for cracks (which is a sucky way to detect fatigue - anyone got a better idea for a part in place?)

*[Edit: After re-reading the Harmonic Balancer thread and being reminded of the failure mode where the balancer shears off around the washer, I'm not going to count on being able to see cracks beforehand.]


I am very sorry my friend that I did not reply sooner. I am not on here much.

To answer your question, yes, I do dissconnect the tranny cooler lines. I remove them at the lower right hand side. They do leak a bit, but nothing huge. Either way, you will want to check your fluid at the trans when you button it all up.
Again, sorry for the delay.
You could always email me at Autophysn@gmail.com :cheers:

 
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Jsloane

and his elephants
After following this thread from the start and after replacing two pumps along the way, I respectfully offer some insight for others about to tackle this job. The two main removal methods (tilted radiator from Vic and swing-away radiator from Autophysn, post #20) outlined here will suit you more or less depending on your situation. While the swing-away radiator method seems like a lot of work, it actually can be a lot easier on your arms and nerves if you have the time for it. You will spend more time preparing for the job but once the front of the engine is exposed the water pump is far easier to replace. In fact when you are sitting on a stool with the engine right in front of you, the tensioner, pulleys, hoses etc are a snap to deal with. When you add up all of what you can accomplish the swing-away method will save you time and probably leave you feeling better for the rest of the day. The transmission fluid issue spooked me too but in the end it was no problem.

With my second pump replacement it was just the pump that needed to be changed so I tried Vic's method, which was less daunting to start and needed less space but seemed harder to finish. I ended up removing the fan shroud but still my hands and arms looked like I'd been in a fight. IMHO this method requires more mechanical dexterity and unless you use mirrors or video cameras visibility is never very good.

Vic's wisdom and helpful steps will pay dividends with either method. I'm grateful to him, Autophsn and everybody else here who has taken the mystery and fear out of this repair.
 

sterling

'03 3500 T1N
I hope it lasts longer than my 2 aftermarket pumps did. Both of them lasted less than 20k before the seal started leaking (one of them was only 12k if I remember correctly) . The third one I bought at the dealer, been good for about 150k. Only OEM water pumps and belt tensionners for me. I had bad luck with an aftermarket tensionner also.
could not agree more!
:clapping:
 

cahaak

New member
Just looked back at my old post. I have 60K now on the Gates and it is still working fine. So that is one data point for you. Use a metal gasket for sure.

Chris
 

Bourkeco

Member
Has anyone come up with a real answer on keeping the fan upright? I forgot and layed mine down (sigh) has anyone had any problems when they have layed them down.. I cant be the only one who has done this...
 

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